Originally by Samurai See if you could be more specific for the second question for a rational answer? If the creation of 'Puntland state' of the supposed 'Federal Somalia' is on the back of 'ancestral land' and 'blood and birth' claims of some the of three sub-clans who calls themselves Puntland administration, what should be the fate of the other members of these three sub-clans who would be minorities in the other 'States' of 'Federal Somalia' where they can't play the 'ancestral land' card. Originally by Sophist people had never accepted the rule of British upon their soil. The argument that Sool, Sanaag and Hawd had been a part of Somaliland is nothing short of distortion of Somali history Sophist again: Sool, Sanaag and Hawd have been dynamicly active in their political rights then the adolescent politician-want to be Ina Adan Adde would not have surfaced at all. The elite of this region who dominated in the Civil Service in the first decade of independence are no where to be seen. These two opposing views are often given by people debating the colonial Somaliland but not at the same time. Some claim they were never part of the British Administration, while others claim they were trained by the Brits to become the finest civil servants in Africa. This is the first time I've seen them given by the same individual.

Originally posted by Samurai On the Somaliland camp – the case here for the colonial demarcation, which is disguised in historical and customary affiliation, of the Somali territories has many a times been made. Both are challenged with vehemence in that colonialism is said not to constitute historical affiliation as much as customary association is never a substitute for birth and blood correlative bond - that of the Somalis and Somalia. Samurai, if the the real reason for the Puntland malitia sneaking into Las Caanod were the ones you have given, they would have crossed the other colonial border and go to Ethiopia to help the ONLF fight the Ethios. It is also debatable where the real 'birth and blood bond' lies if you take into question the 'cross breeding' that has taken place in Sool and Sanaag. Originally posted by Samurai Somaliland’s elites (and not leadership) ought to abandon the secessionist strategies and pursue either confederate (unlikely at the moment) or federal (highly likely) union with the rest of Somalia, Lets for pretend for one moment the above becomes real, and Puntland is a single clan 'State' in this 'Somali Federation'. What would be the fate of the other members of this clan that rules Puntland State who at the moment live as minorities in other parts of Somalia? Will they be sent to Puntland or would they live as outsiders with no voice.

This card-carrying member of the gay lobby now claims he is sorry.>>>>>>>>>Kilroy 'regrets' anti-Arab comments

Originally by Samurai Gediid – Electoral resolve - One man one vote - proposed in 2000, abandoned by the late Igal, but still doable though the doctrine of “majority wins” is not quite applicable to nomads, for if one loses by majority vote, one never accepts the results. Who and how would this be enforced? The negotiations for the wording of a referendum would be too coplicated and accepting the results would be very difficult for defeated parties. Would the options for example be A-Xamar B-Garoowe C- Hargeisa etc. Would this election be on who gets 'State' , districs, towns or village basis? What if A-Xamar gets some of the towns in the middle? Another stumbling-block would be how do decide who gets the un inahabited lands, trees and stones cant vote!!! As a Somalilander who has relatives both in Djibouti and Ethiopia why should I accept 'one man one vote' on one border while I get nothing in return from the other two? Lastly no 'voting' should take place without the official tearing of the defunct 'Union Agreements' if there was one. There more questions but thats it for now. Originally by Lander War has devastating effects, and it is often fruitless but I am not of those pacifist who will go so far as saying it is NEVER a solution. Sometimes in is the only solution. Lander I think Riyaale has more than two (pacifism and war) options to deal with the situation. He can can isolate the Puntaland Malitia (or as they call them Police) till they are home-sick while securing the rest of the Somaliland borders. If Col Yusuf has the guts to fight 'outdoors' then he should stop SL army from doing this. Another important thing Riyaale needs to do is do more to win the hearts and minds of people who are from the aerias within Somaliland who are not happy about his administration. He can start by doing more to help those suffering the draughts and dealing and making concession to elders and not to the malitias. War in Las Caanod is not the option atleast as thing stand.

Libaax you've missed the point, and its not the first time. What I've brought to your attention is the SOL double-standards and not the nature of comments above. Its not the first time these sort of thinly-disguised words have been used and not edited to this day, so please to give me that 'log-on' time excuse. I am only demanding a level-playing field, if to you that is 'madness' and 'playing the victim' that is OK with me. And, if I enjoy making accusations I would have complained the first time those sorts of comments were made.

Come off it Libaax. Would you allow me to post something like this: Originally by Samurai It is 'cause of the 90s battles which pitched eastern tribes (*****) And this originally by Mopp Does ****** ring a bell? I think its time you chose another tittle for the job you do sir, cos that aint Moderating.

Notherner yaa Akhiin I'm not gonna be there, but I hope Hadraawi knows how much I appreciate the part he played in the SNM struggle against the oppressors.

^^Said like a true pro you are. What is even more disgusting is, Libaax ST took no time to edit my post in 'war is not the answer' thread, while turning a blind eye to the silly comments above. Maybe the SOL 'Golden rules' and 'standards and ethics of discussion' are applied by people without any. Here is article about their 'peacelords' whom they try to prevent us from discussing. Please have pitty and don't laugh at them>>>>>>>Up close with Somalia's warlords

U.S. tourists spend hours waiting to get into Brazil

Lander yaa saxbii you are spot on. Thats why I only bothered to ask how he came to those conclusions. Its also almost impossible to respond to those questions (and answers) with the 'rules' imposed by SOL.

Angel I think Fuad Aadan Cadde has showed toughness and composure and should be the new Interior Minister for the Republic. Samurai would settle for that.

Posted by Samurai: It appears many seem to be banging on about the spills of war without much attention to its repercussions. I am yet to see anyone proposing a resolution to the conflict in the regions concerned. Is there a decree of resolution? If so, what is it? The only move that promises a peaceful resolution to the situation is in this article. If true, this might provide a short term solution: Dhanka kale wasiirka horumarinta reer Miyiga ee Somaliland Md. Fu’aad Aadan Cadde oo muddo ku sugnaa magaalada Laas caanood ee gobolka Sool ayaa maanta gaaray deegaanka Ceynaba oo ah fariisinka ugu soo horeeya ee ay ciidamada Somaliland fadhiyaan. Wasiirka ayaa Laas Caanood uga soo baxay amar uga yimid Salaadiinta beesha ******** ee uu ka tirsan yahay, kuwaasoo isaga u ballan qaaday in haddii uu baxo ay isna C/risaaq Af-guduud, taliyaha ciidamada booliska Puntland ka saari doonaan Laas Caanood, si looga baxo is-qab qabsiga siyaasadeed ee u dhaxeeya labada maamul. Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis) Hiiraan Online saladxiis@yahoo.com Mogadishu, Somalia Here is another article calling for a peaceful solution to the crisis caused by the ill-judged stunt by the Puntland malitia.>>> war should not the first option Samurai I applaud the new calm and mature tone you seem to have adopted. But, if the people in the north-east of Somalia want long lasting peace - then they should think of a way to ditch the 'Garoowe tyrant'. [ January 06, 2004, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Libaax-Sankataabte ]

Horn I agree with the 'pacifist tone' of the article, but, there is aslo another part of me that feels Col Yusuf's boys need to be taught a lesson sooner or later.

Soyaal: is this an artical in arab league's constitution or is it the wish of this guy. This looks like sounds personal opinion of yet another individual who has just realised Somaliland is here to stay. Macruuf: I can bet you and every person almost 99.9999% that supports Soomaaliland are originated from one qabiil. If it was called the qabiil's name or "qabiilland," these questions shouldn't be asked now. I can further more bet on my life whose qabiil you belong. I am saying this because if Soomaaliland is based not on qabiil, then why it is easy to know only certain "elements" of one qabiil support it {not all members of this qabiil support secession, mind you, and that is rightly applauded}. This is very interesting, would you like to inform us as to how you came to these conclusions that you are prepared to lose your life for?

news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/africa/3354707.stm

^^^^"When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers." African Proverb

Thanks for that African, I thought Rudy was using some kind of ebonic measurements .

^^^^ 'from Awdal and Togdheer', lovely touch Horn. Horn I knew you did not have the money when you said: .... the fighting went from a revenge killing of a very prominent businessmen of my clan .... Personally this "war" is draining me emotionally as well as financially. Smith too claimed ''this war has drained all of us'' which i disagree with. Some have 'made' a lot money from the middle of this chaos and suffering. Not having the money is very different from knowing where it is. Believe me I knew what you ment the first time, I just wanted to drag you a bit Drag me where and why? Horn, before you start playing the 'generalisation' card, wasn't it you who was telling us about the LA clan and their political affiliations? I like peope who are real Ayoub, if you want to ask me something ask me, why do you have to be fake? Lacageey Lacageey Ragga kala labaayaa

Was that a nervous or is someone all the way to the bank? Some people are even getting hot under the collar, I wonder why? Originally posted by Shaqsii: This is getting more interesting by the minute.....I find a few guys quite jumpy around here ....what is the matter people? Cant we just talk straight without cutting corners? init? Nomads the money was still in Xamar when Gen Caydiid was approaching from the north and the only route open for the money was west or south-west and this is where the trail runs cold. We are talking about truck loads of dosh here, someone must have seen something BTW You chaps ain't gonna send me to a wild goose in Somaliland

^^^^^ Now that is one cheesy way of atracting attention to your profile .

Gediid here is a few quotes from 2003 which left images in my head... Originally posted by Gashaamo: And that my dear Mr Baashi is the difference between me as somalilander who is aware of the fact of my reality, my potential as a people, as of my ingenuity of making national statehood out of the ruins of greater somalia state-prison, and the far brighter satisfying destiny to which I am constructing for my tomorrows on one hand; and on the other hand we have the myopic merchant of self-deluded fantasist, such as yours and others the likes of HornAfrique and Sumurai Warior who are in that pitifull state, who is stuck with a miserable and failed dream known as a greater somalia, with a destitute national honour, seriously malignant national dignity, teaming with a child-killers and brutal warlords, bereft of anything worth aspiring to as a people, other than the latest demeaning order from the self-appointed igad apparatchiks and functionaries of ethiopians and kenyans so-called peace mediators, as to what to think of collectively and imaginatively or consciously for that matter, and what manner of statehood to hope for as a nation known as the former failed state of somalia -what a fallen fate for a nation to contemplate-. Originally posted by Samurai Warrior: In a nutshell, Hablo – if you wish to turn the political forum into a kitchen table where the latest hair highlighters, nail polishers, trendy leotards, clips from gossip pages, infoMail discussions, and personalities rather than issues are being discussed, you are welcome to it. Dialogue and discourse in any discipline are an apparatus of discussing issues of concern, and dissecting matters of interest. As gloves are out, amicability if at all attained is an improbable bonus. You obviously do seem to have a rather congenial definition of what it entails, thus it shall, as you wish, be a platform of discussion for the shoes colours, pms and non related subjects. Originally posted by Grinov: .... its a very tough decision, but i would vote for abdullahi yusuf and this is why. he is a murdurer and a traitor, but he has the politicall savyness, and the U.S and Ethiopian backing that will ensure the initial success of the government. in few years , insha allah he will die of his liver problems, while somalia will get a better leader to build on his success. Originally posted by guleedyare: ..... iam not fan for abdulahi but like he said ak 47 will not rule somalia if he is in power. then i will go back home and enjoy the sun shine and work as wheather man on Tv, and say tomorrow will be same as yesterday

OG Moti lets be in the topic and i dont want to drive everyone in other issues which we could discuss in any other topics, in here we talking about those people who were send to eithopia by the somaliland government, some might be guilty some could be civilians.. but either ways, in Islam you can never betray your brother for non believers, no matter how wrong the brother could be... OG Moti I'm afraid it does matter how wrong the ONLF IS. I don't support the extraditions but the ONLF has an agenda and as a Somalilander I need to know what it is. If they are fighting for 'Somaliweyn' then its foolish to expect favours from the Somaliland government. What ONLF stands for is really important if they are to gain support of some Somalilanders while they operate within Somaliland.

Horn I've asked a very straight-foward question: WHO IS GOT THE MONEY STOLLEN FROM THE FALLEN SIAD REGIME? If you don't know whos got the money just say so because I don't understand why 'my line of reasoning' has to do with you answering that question? Anyways, I'll try again.. If you care to remember one of your post which was edited by Admin, you told us what clan lives in Las Caanod and you also said you had lots of contacts with them and they were for 'united Somalia'. That to me is one helluva informed (or misinformed) person who is not scared to tell it as it is and what a better person to ask THAT question. I find it a bit strange that it took that question to make you curious about 'my line of reasoning'. Saxiib, just do what you and most nomads in here do - take the most 'obvious' reason to you and answer the question, the best you can . As you are SOL's own in-house doctor I don't need to tell you being up-tight in one end and retentive in the other is not healthy for you, do I?

because 1. you and Smith seemed to be well informed about 'Somalia Issues'. 2. This topic might have come up at dinner time or something.

OG Moti the topic is S-land and sending refugee to Ethopia..first to be clear somali land people should be seperated from somali land government, the people are somalis and have a pasion for somali people wherever they are, but the government is shameful I agree with most of the above statement, but there a few things that most Somalilanders are not clear about: 1. Where does the ONLF stand on the issue of Somaliland in general, are they pro, anti or neutral? 2. What is their policy on other Somalis living in Ethiopia? OG Moti and Ogun i know you chaps are not ONLF reps or atleast I think you are not but it would be helpful my understanding of Somaliland/Ethiopia/ONLF relation if you chaps answered those questions?