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The End of Xiinfaniin's Peace Caravan

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Oodweyne   

Baashi,

 

Saaxiib, I do not know about you but flattering one’s self in the sense of saying one agrees with you, when in fact, they were too polite to disrobe your argument in public other than to give you a bit of a “nudge” in the hope you will see falsity of your argument, is in my book the most intolerable way to debate with others. And by that I mean, here you are glorifying yourself that others agreed with you, when in fact they have shown you – if you have a wisdom to follow their argument – how you could not be more wrong.

 

But, then again, this way of sparing your “blushes” when you are caught with silly argument must be the other thing you habitually do, on top of the other one, which was that of “insulting” away, the minute you are reduced to a hapless novice who lost for words where others point of arguments is concern.

 

All in all; I can again forgive these self-serving “debating props” in which you seemed to be make a habit of using it, if in turn you promise me not to over-do them in the future... :D

 

Now, if I may return the gist of the argument, my argument was that in so far as Mogadishu and her “citizens” is concern, the fight to determine the future destiny of Somalia is in their hands. And on this point, regardless of what you think of it, the international community (IC) agrees with them. Furthermore, the issue which is that of “federalism” is still in the air, by a “deliberate basis” along the line of “going slow” done by that same political grouping in Mogadishu.

 

And by that I mean, they believe so long as they do not “commit” prematurely to any political system that may disadvantage them in the future, then, once they defeat Al-Shabaab in their midst; and once their city comes back to a normal and living environment, then they will turn and tell you that they do not agree with this “federalism” business, and if you are not content to accept that assertion, then they will say let’s put that argument to the public.

 

And they will do that, for they know, in sheer number alone the folks in Mogadishu can always “outvote” any other region in the country safe for Somaliland. Hence the up-shot of that, will be that, in the final analysis, they can win this political tussle in a democratic way; while all along they have given nothing in return when their part of the country was recovering the self-induced wounds of the last 20 or so odd years.

 

Now you see my argument. And finally, you keep talking about reconciliation and whatnot; but, what you seemed to be missing in here, is that reconciliation only becomes viable when and if everyone is of the opinion of reconciling each other. And on here, the folks of Mogadishu (i.e., the “Pashtun-of-Somalia”) do not see need to reconcile with you; for they do not consider that you are “political obstacle” to their agenda of setting Somalia as they see fit in the future.

 

In other words, so long as they have some section of the “D-Block” (like our friend Gabbal and his ilk) playing to their tune, then, the idea that they will stop doing whatever they are doing on the account of “Pirate-land” not being happy with it, will strike them as a preposterous argument.

 

Hence, it’s you, the “elites in Pirate-land” who needed to convince them the “error” of their ways. But screaming that reconciliation is needed to take the country forward, when in fact, one section of the country (namely the “Pashtun-of-Somalia”) is convince they have “won” both the battle and the war, is not going to make a whole lot of difference.

 

And in fact, they will consider your exhortation, as nothing but a “special pleading”, after you were measured and found wanted by them. Hence, it’s no use to keep talking about “facts-on-the-ground” suggesting the nation needs reconciliation; when you could see that is not something others are agreeing with you.

 

Similarly, or at least in “analogical sense”, the “Sunnis in Iraq” are calling for a reconciliation to take Iraq into a prosperous future for all; but the “Shia” thinks no such thing is required. After all they have “won” and they have the numbers; and furthermore, the state is in their hands (starting from the Prime-Minister all the way down to the soldiers in the street are Shias).

 

Hence to them (i.e., the Shias), these call from Yesterday’s Saddam Hussein foot-soldiers (which is what Sunnis are in the eyes of the Shia) is tantamount of them (the Sunnis) trying to win something on the back of a peace talks, when they couldn’t have won what they are demanding now on the “battle-field”. This “picture” in which I have painted for you is precisely how the “Pashtun-of-Somalia” (i.e., the Folks in Mogadishu) considers your kind of talk of “national reconciliation” between the combatants for Somalia’s future.

 

Consequently, so long as the fact of reality on the ground doesn’t abuse of them of that judgement, your talk of calling “Dirrin talk” is essentially, like I said, the talk of man who lost the war (politically and militarily) but still think he can, verbally, win his way to position of importance against his “enemies”.

 

This is my argument; and I hope you will stop to argue what you wish to see happening to Somalia. And rather, you will begin to ascertain the “facts-of-the-reality” not as you considered it to be; but most crucially of all, how it seems to others on the other side of the table.

 

 

*******************

 

PS:-

 

Mintid,

 

Got your point, bro, laud and clear. But, still, the interesting point would have been, if our friends from that neck-of-the-wood call Pirate-land, were to, once and all, realize how Farole couldn’t be more friendly with Somaliland’s agenda. After all, he did (as you say) “reduced” his fiefdom to the old Sultanate’s territory. Secondly, he did spectacularly fall out with his capital of Mogadishu, so that way he shan’t be in a position to bring the "folks of Mogadishu" as a “auxiliaries” in his fight against us.

 

And in fact, he cleared the way for us to “deal” with the “Pashtun-of-Somalia” without him being around to “eavesdrop” into the discussion; as would have been the case, if someone more sophisticated than him, were to have been running the show in Pirate-land. All in all; he has been a good and surprisingly a “loyal” friend towards Somaliland’s larger agenda.. :D

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Baashi;983349 wrote:

 

Just as Oodweyne and other biased secessionists out there, the clan activists in Benadir who paid precious blood and treasure for the singular reason that they want to alter Somalia’s political power scale, are at loss in how things are shaping up.

 

If the current course is left unchecked or unimpeded all the blood spilled and properties destroyed in order to defeat a large segment of the population would be in vain. To them, Somali civil war and all the destruction it had brought was necessary price to get rid of the clan dictatorship that dominated the political discourse of the nation before and after independence.

 

There is a reason why Oodweyne is living in parallel universe where the conflict has already been settled and one party has emerged victorious and is now calling the shots in the South. Oodweyne’s
hallucination
is a text book e
xample of folks who exhibit schizophrenia over a desired outcome
.

 

...

Well said Baashi.

 

Our brothers in the north are giving the game away by coming out so strongly against Faroole, Puntland, and Jubbaland. Even Xiinfaniin posts frustrates them.

 

I will come back to the Lander's, and Macno Yare's 'cantrabaqash' insha Allaah when the time permits.

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Oodweyne   

^^^Xiinfaniin,.. :D :D

 

You know, my friend, everytime I think you may have finally hit the rock-bottom of nonsensical argument; you go again confounded me with yet another delicious mendacity. And by that I mean, here you are trying to picky-bag a nonsensical argument penned by Baashi; without never noticing how comprehensively his argument, which is your "northern guiding star" (or lodster) was destroyed by others.

 

I mean, if you are going to make an alibi of others argument for your contention, then, the first thing you could do is to take good care to notice whether those who you would "latched" on to their argument have any legs of their own to stand on.

 

And since Baashi's argument has been domolished for a passing fun, it really is tragic to notice how you still think he made any argument worthy of one's assent; or even one to which to hide behind it.

 

But then again, as I said from the begining when you are naked (metaphorically) then even the most flimsiest flying-about half-torn sheets is a godsend to those so ill-disposed.. :D

 

Hence, as Mintid have already alluded to, I shan't begrudge you the spectacle of thinking what Baashi said could be made of a figleaf to which to hide one's intellectual blushes (as it were)... :D :D

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^^OOdweyne :D

 

Baashi said two things:

 

1. No side has won the civil war

2. Reconciliation however slow remains to be the only alternative to achieve peace in Somalia

 

You and the other SNM goons said:

 

1. The civil war has been won by one side

2. No reconciliation is needed for there is no conflict

 

When Baashi read your ridiculous assertion, he concluded that you have gone mad :D

 

I could not but agree with him on this ...

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Oodweyne   

^^^Xiinfaniin,.. :D :D

 

No, my friend, see if you follow this argument:

 

Baashi said the following:

 

1- There was Civil war in Somalia and no one has won that war. 2 - There is need for reconciliation for the nation.

 

My argument:-

 

1- Regardless of whether Baashi believes that there was is no one who had won the civil-war in Somalia; the "elites-of-Mogadishu" believes that they have won – decisively - the civil-war. And to ice the cake, they have convinced the IC to "accept" that verdict, if the IC wants Somalia to be at peace with itself and "terrorists-free-state".

 

This is exactly the argument the “Shia-of-Iraq” made to the West; namely "accept" us to be the "real victors" of the Iraqi's civil-war and work with us on that basis. And then Iraq will be your friend and we will not be harbouring any terrorists against you in our country.

 

2- Regardless of whether Somalia needs "reconciliation" or not (as Baashi is asserting) the "elites-of-Mogadishu" do not consider that to be the case. Or failing that the only "reconciliation" they will be interesting in will be one that will "cement" the outcome of the civil-war, as they understand it.

 

Hence, if Baashi wants reconciliation, then he either "accepts" their version of “reconciliation”. Or failing that then he needs to convince them that their way of reading Somalia's present reality is wrong.

 

These “two points” are my argument. And so far I am much closer to the reality of Somalia; since, regardless of what I think, it's the folks of Mogadishu, who gives every indication that what they are doing is exactly as I have explained to you.

 

In other words, they believe that old dictum of: "To The Victor Goes The Spoils". And if you think I am wrong, then your job is not to worry about what I have to say about it. But, rather on the contrary it’s to disabuse of them of such reality.

 

However, unfortunately for you, so far the "elites-of-Pirate-land" doesn't seem to have the "political cards" to dissuade the folks of Mogadishu to think differently than what they are currently doing. :D

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Oodweyne;983521 wrote:
^^^Xiinfaniin,..
:D
:D

 

My argument:-

 

1- Regardless of whether Baashi believes that there is no one who had won the civil-war in Somalia; t
he "elites-of-Mugadishu" believes that they have won - decisively- the civil-war. And to ice the cake,
they have convinced the IC to "accept" that verdict,
if the IC wants Somalia to be at peace with itself and "terrorists-free-state".

 

his is exactly the argument the Shia-of-Iraq made to the West; namely "accept" us to be the "real victors" of the Iraqi's civil-war and work with us on that basis; and then Iraq will be your friend and we will not be harbouring any terrorists ahgainst you in our country.

Any evidence that the International Community (and Neighboring Countries) have been convinced that the civil war in Somalia has been won by one side ?

 

It appears to me just like it did to Baashi this is an outcome you and your SNM folks have had wished to come about, and not something that can be supported by the reality on the ground. Surely the international community acts like it is a managing a deeply broken country with desperate political stakeholders with divergent objectives. So go ahead and back your argument with some evidence ya Oodweyne. If not accept the charge that you are so clannish, and a disappointment one at that, to the core that cannot manage to see facts as they are.

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Oodweyne   

^^^ :D :D

 

What don't you find out what the Uncle Sam's view of Federal government position vis-a-vis that of puntland is. Furthermore, why don't you tell the gallary (if you are privy to those information) what even the lowly US's embassy in Nairobi tells those like Farole who complain about Hassan Sheikh's political conduct in Somalia. And there you will know what is the "political" and "policy direction" of US when it comes to dealing with "center versus the regions" in Somalia.

 

And finally, since you live in the state, why don't you try to get hold off the latest US's Senate foreign relation hearing on Somalia that was done in this month. And there you will see how in the eyes of Uncle Sam, Somalia destiny hinges on the whole the peace and stability of Mogadishu. And every other consideration is not even in the running for them.

 

Hence the desire to accept the terms in which stability could be return to Mogadishu is all the US accept to be her policy. And in case you missed the conection in here those "terms" in which the stability of Mugadishu can be had will be determine none other than Hassan Sheikh.

 

In other words, the US, has given him a "blank cheque" to stabilize his region and with it he has been given a free hand to determine the basis in which Somalia's future dispensation will look like.

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^^Waryaa give me credit for I posted John Kerry's thinking about Somalia's reality and what he publicly tells Hassan Sheekh to do. Perhaps you did not want to address the content of that Youtube :D :D

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Oodweyne,

 

Let me outline what's happening here. You had a poster start a thread by 'throwing in the towel' on his community's dreams of a Mogadishu seat. With that willing submission, this individual took his seat dutifully at 'Cafe Calaacal'.

 

Many members commented on the thread, agreeing with the dire prognosis of the situation. The problem started when some members of 'another particular community' commented on the entry into 'Cafe Calaacal'. At that point, another member of the original poster's community scolded him 'to never be seen publicly waving the white flag' even when you are pummeled to the ground. With the alarm raised, the original poster quickly reversed himself and went back to his usual denial of present realities.

 

Entiendes, hombre?

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Oodweyne   

^^Mintid,.. :D :D

 

Spot on, as usual, bro. But one wonders why do they think that their lamentation can't be understood it to be a "cry-for-help" that it is by others. After all, if you believe there is peace caravan and it's heading into the ditch, then the first question is, does anyone believes that to be the case? and if they do not believe that, then the question is as to why that is the case?

 

In other words, if the originator of this post would of ask himself of this simple question he would realize that his peace caravan may be acording to him "hit" the ditch. But those who are calling the "shots" in Mogadishu things could not have been in better prognosis for them.

 

Hence, it's like a beaten and hurried former supporters of Saddam Hussein, who were mainly "Sunnis" saying that the Iraq is going to the dogs under the current Shia-dominated political reality; while in turn the Shia, will dismissively say, speak for yourself mate, for we the Shia, never had it so good.

 

In other words, acording to our friend, Xiinfaniin, Somalia is going to the Dogs; but I am sure, if our old friends, by the name of Abwaan or Juje were with us now, they would of said it in unison: speak for yourself, mate, for we the folks of Mogadishu, never had it so good of a decent prospect, at least in comparison of the last 20 or so odd years... :D :D

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Baashi   

Mintid,

Cafe Calaacal has healing properties:) I guess that's why you have acquired taste for the qaxwe served in these joints :) Awoowe the lions are neither down nor out yet. They are pretty much in the ring

 

Oodweyne,

As much as I like pushing your hot buttons I am gonna give it a rest this time as I am tired of us talking past each other. I decided to post for the benefit of the silent readers so they are at least in a position to see both sides of the coin and in the process learn what makes folks tick.

 

Xiin,

I’ve been scratching my head and I was like what the hell makes Oodweyne and et al go over the cliff with this incessant and over-the-top deep desire in imagining the demise of the opposing clans. Sure, I have my share of hurling stones over the fences and actually enjoyed talking clan politics over cup of earl grey tea with friends of opposing clans. But never felt strongly or believed seriously about any of the clannish crab folks spew here or at the café. I’ve been wondering about how determined and serious some folks are about the clan issue. It is not he suddenly changed his color but I guess I am out of the loop and when I come visit here it hits me a fresh.

 

Mintid, LANDER and Oodweyne are quintessential hardcore clan secessionist. They somehow convinced themselves that their clan nemesis had lost the war and has all but been reduced to the margins of Somali clan hierarchy. Awoowe these folks and others who share that view are absolutely convinced of this “truth” so much so that even in the face of twenty odd years of stalemate with no end in sight does not make them hesitate a bit. Go figure!

 

Oodweyne pretenses and delusional grandiose he peddles in this forum is the stuff Hollywood make-believe is made of! When he gets excited and it doesn’t take much to get him going he goes to a lala land where secessionist enclave up north is a sovereign and the other recovery area in the same locality with similar rudimentary capabilities is a pirate-invested village content with its historical Sultanate status. This is the same nomad who informed the SOL gallery that Senegal has decided to recognize Somaliland and its president will issue official statement upon the arrival of Riyale – this was circa 2005-7:) Of course – it was a case of mixing what one likes to see with what actually is happening! In medical journals the condition has a name 

 

As Mintid often claims he passes himself of as an insider privy to top secret information and when he sensed folks in the forum have their doubts about his claims, he decided to make some of that inside information available to the forum. It was the charcoal issue discussed in the UN in the context of desertification of the region. As it turned out it was nothing of the sort and had nothing to do with imminent failure of the outing of the nascent JL state. It was the charcoal issue discussed in the UN in the context of desertification of the region. Nevertheless he tried to spin it out of proportion.

 

I don’t know if the rest of the forum sympathizes with our friends’ delusional outbursts! Consider these points -- Much hoped and hyped SL recognition never came. The inter-clan jockeying of Habraha never went away. D block residents who supposed to be partners with the Habraha never completely bought off the SL project in unison. Mogadishu never attained the much desired outcome Oodweyne in his heart of hearts would like them to achieve and actually “finish off” the remnants of the former regime at once. The reality gets on their way every time and I must admit -- it is a pretty frustrating thing to be in their position.

 

There must be some explanation of what compels our secessionist friends to go out their way and construct a parallel reality where they give events that are yet to occur [i.e. marginalization and disenfranchisement of large segment of Somali population] additional significance.

 

Consider the fact that the tragedy that has befallen to the Somali race has only achieved one and only one thing: it destroyed Somali state, humiliated its proud and resilient citizens and made its territory a proxy playground where Somali neighbors train their soldiers and collect western handouts in the name of fighting homegrown terrorism. The fact that a Somali citizen would see such an outcome as being the desired outcome as long as some folks actually lose the sway they once have over others is very telling!!

 

Wait – add this to what I outlined above in order to understand the amplitude of Oodweyne’s frustrations. The current system of government that gives legitimacy to Hassan’s government owes its origins and implementation to the very folks Oodweyne et al would like to think of as being the ones relegated to the dust bin of history. That must be a helluva frustrating state to be.

 

The founding of Puntland injected a lethal dose of skepticism to the Ethiopian’s and other sympathetic powers’ thinking of how to deal with two recovery areas with relative peace and rudimentary administration but have overlapping borders. Chew that! Put yourself in Oodweyne’s shoes! A clan warrior, full of grievances thinking finally that tables are turned to his clan’s favor and things will go according to the clan’s plans!

 

Today – after twenty odd years -- Oodweyne pens a lengthy and not-so-insightful analysis on the state of D block’s demise. Yeah! As far as he is concerned they were finished off years ago but still he predicts yet another imminent vanquishing!

 

The newsmakers? ahem -- yes D-block groupings on Kenyan tanks on one side and FG financed and supported warlord on the other side pushing each other to lay claim of one of the most priced region in whole Somalia. The topic? Federalism – an idea championed by one of the defeated clan as voices Oodweyne is hearing would have him to believe. Where does IC stand on the issue? That I do not know but it is entirely possible that Federal Government is prepared to swallow its pride and accept JL as principal federal state.

 

It is sad to see Somalia gone to the wolves. What’s even sadder is to see clannish secessionists reducing this tragedy to which clan lost the contest and which one won the spoils.

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Baashi;983568 wrote:
As Mintid often claims he passes himself of as an insider privy to top secret information and when he sensed folks in the forum have their doubts about his claims, he decided to make some of that inside information available to the forum. It was the charcoal issue
discussed in the UN in the context of desertification of the region
. As it turned out it was nothing of the sort and had nothing to do with imminent failure of the outing of the nascent JL state. It was the charcoal issue
discussed in the UN in the context of desertification of the region
. Nevertheless he tried to spin it out of proportion

 

 

Speaking of parallel universes, it was because of desertification(according to our friends above) that Somali charcoal was banned by the Security Council, as well as the U.S. government.

 

Here's an excerpt from Reuters:

'The Security Council banned the export of charcoal from Somalia in February 2012 to cut off one of the main sources of income for al Shabaab, which has been fighting for control of Somalia for years and enforces a strict version of sharia law in the areas it occupies.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/us-somalia-charcoal-un-idUSBRE96D01A20130714

 

Meanwhile, the U.S. government piled on with this:

'President Barack Obama has targeted the export of charcoal from war-torn Somalia, the sales of which help finance an al Qaeda-affiliated group, the State Department said Friday.'

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/20/obama-moves-on-charcoal-ban-from-somalia/

 

But good old Baashe would have us believe it's because of environmental concern that the world has become so concerned with Somalia's charcoal industry.

 

I wonder who's spinning, or maybe smoking what ;)

 

 

P.S. It's interesting to see some still nursing the 'wounds' from the forgotten (till now) charcoal debate. Stiffen that spine, gentlemen, ..... Tomorrow is a brand new day ;)

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