Fatherhood

[Cambuulo iyo bun]

Woman home, man work: it's a proven formula like pythgoras or somehing, why change

[Safferz]

Chimera;937534 wrote:

Labor participation rate for Somali women is very low, much lower than that of men. It doesn't matter which country with a sizable community you look at. It's logical considering the structure of the Somali community. Three examples of the employment rate difference:

 

UK – Somali men 40.1% employed - Somali women 9.6% -

WIKI

USA – Somali men 51% employed - Somali women 38.5% -

Link

Denmark - Somali men 34% employed - Somali women 22% -

Link

 

Never said that, they're roughly the same, with Somali men having a higher proficiency in English. Listen, my post wasn't some invitation for a gender war, considering each side is one half of the same team. However, I feel when people project that stereotype of "sisters outdoing the brothers" based on news headlines or dropout rates, they are doing the community a big disservice by neglecting a significant group that needs attention, support and assistance.

Those figures don't take the informal economy into account, which is where you'll see a lot of Somali women employed (ie. in a Somali mall, domestic labour, etc). It's also important to differentiate between first generation Somali immigrants who arrived in these countries as adults with families (our parents, for most of us here) and Somalis who have been educated here, because the trends are also very different.

 

Chimera;937534 wrote:

The community wouldn't collapse because they're "educated" or "working women", (nice twist) however a large section of our community unfortunately due to war, divorce or other reasons is headed by single-mother households.

Your exact words were "the assumption that Somali women are more educated and employed than their male-counterparts is a myth, our communities would have collapsed a long time ago if that were to be the case," so there's no twist. As Blessed points out, being a mother and having a career are not mutually exclusive. Parenting isn't a mother's sole responsibility, it is a shared task.

 

Chimera;937534 wrote:

Its very difficult for such a mother to juggle all of these responsibilities with a career/university on the side, if she did do this, then the kids would be neglected badly.

There has to be a balance,

if sisters opt for higher education or a career,

then the brothers have to become the fathers that pick their kids up from school. feed them, bathe them and put them to bed.

Otherwise, again the sister would be forced to drop all of her personal dreams and become a full-time mom. I have seen many Somali fathers like that, but it all depends on the mentality of the couple, and whether they're willing to compromise.

My point was that fathers should ALWAYS be doing this, period. The idea is only controversial to the misogynists who believe that raising children is a woman's job, and their rightful place is in the home, not at school or at work.

[Chimera]

*Blessed;937583 wrote:

It is possible for both parents to work and raise a family, the two aren't mutually exclusive as you suggest.

Absolutely, but again there has to be an agreement between the two parents. Someone has to do the parental tasks, and unfortunately in one particular study done in Minnesota, the percentage of fathers doing their 'fatherly' duty is extremely low, because in Somali culture a fatherly duty seems to be about bringing in the bread, rather than staying at home and help around the house.

[Chimera]

Safferz;937597 wrote:

Those figures don't take the informal economy into account, which is where you'll see a lot of Somali women employed (ie. in a Somali mall, domestic labour, etc).

I believe that is classed under "self-employment", which is ultimately factored in.

 

It's also important to differentiate between first generation Somali immigrants who arrived in these countries as adults with families (our parents, for most of us here) and Somalis who have been educated here,

because the trends are also very different.

Based on which study? I'm quite confident that the situation today is much better based on a Finland study that says Somalis are making the fastest gains in employment after the Vietnamese, but this was a general statistic on the community rather than one categorized by gender.

 

Your exact words were "

the assumption that Somali women are more educated and employed than their male-counterparts is a myth, our communities would have collapsed a long time ago if that were to be the case

," so there's no twist.

You arrangement of my words projected a view that I equated female education and employment as tantamount to a collapse of the Somali community, which would mean that I consider education and employment as negative occupations for women to pursue. That is a twist whatever way you look at it, considering my point was in reference to single-mother headed house holds,where the luxury of rising on the ladder for a career, or pursuing an education is extremely difficult when there is no safety-net in the form of a father. If all single Somali mothers were to work long hours, or go to the university, the manageable social problems we face today would be on a different level, and yes I'm confident the community would collapse.

 

Who would look after the kids? The single mothers who do pursue higher education or retain a job usually have a strong support network in the form of brothers, mothers, aunts and grandparents, but not every mother is that lucky. Its their sacrifices that will allow their daughters to choose a different route.

 

As Blessed points out, being a mother and having a career are not mutually exclusive. Parenting isn't a mother's sole responsibility, it is a shared task.

Of-course, if there is someone to share it with. I remember reading a study that said the majority of Somali households in Canada were headed by single mothers.

 

My point was that fathers should ALWAYS be doing this, period. The idea is only controversial to the misogynists who believe that raising children is a woman's job, and their rightful place is in the home, not at school or at work.

I think that's a simplistic look at the situation, remember our fathers' generation were raised in a country, where their own mothers or wives were supported by maids, who did all of the chores, took the kids to school, etc. The thought of a male picking up a hoover and cleaning up the house is science-fiction to them. In the west the maid-culture pretty much disappeared because of the more expensive costs, however the mentality in both men and women remained. This is not misogynistic perse, considering this is the same generation that were major backers of women getting into education, laws were passed for equal rights, and the labor participation rate of Somali women was one of the highest in the Muslim world.

[Safferz]

Thanks for the response, Chimera. It's almost 4am on the east coast and I am delirious and less combative than my usual self, so I'll accept a thoughtful response for what it is

 

More cute photos please.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Safferz, you don't sleep much, do you

[Chimera]

We're on the same team Safferz, I'm only here to learn.

 

More pics will come, insha'allah.

[Safferz]

SomaliPhilosopher;937665 wrote:

Safferz, you don't sleep much, do you

Not much at all.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

I noticed a pattern of your late night posts

[Safferz]

SomaliPhilosopher;937670 wrote:

I noticed a pattern of your late night posts

I see I have a stalker

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Safferz;937675 wrote:

I see I have a stalker

don't flatter yourself dee. there was 287 before you.

[Safferz]

SomaliPhilosopher;937676 wrote:

don't flatter yourself dee. there was 287 before you.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Chimera;937175 wrote:

Wadani, there were several national parks in the South populated by the Big 6, but the North seems to favor a climate for rare Bird Habitats.

 

[Chimera]

Congrats on your 10 thousand posts, MMA.

[Maqane]

Chimera , Where's Motherhoad?