Somalia/ Somaliland

[Ibtisam]

^^^If it is, I don't need permission. But since you asked. No, it is the only region that has some literature available for me to build on, and only region I have the option of doing primary research if I need to. Also economic indicators for Somalia are not available due the circumstances. In addition it would be a bit retarded for me to base a project on such turmoil conditions, which change from day to day about economic development.

 

Adam that would be great!

[Emperor]

^What an excuse, like you said you don't need permission to promote the case for SL, so why the need to come up with that many excuses.... the boring talk and BS of 'the only region you have option... or the only region that has literature'...

[Ibtisam]

Bullshid you say? I will give you bullshid if you find me the information I need to write a project on Somalia. Just get me the basic baal haad nin taahe, you know GDP, HDI, capital inflows, micro/macro policies of your government and few more things. The challenge stands Emperor, caagah waax kaa tee.

 

I maintain that I do not need permission, after all it is my time and effort and resources. Do your own research with your own time and resources if you are so passionate. I’ve picked my corner.

[Emperor]

^Lool, you one heck of a political chunk among many SOLers here, why do I feel the sense of backing off, get in the mud girl and swim in properly, you are a taugh SLer I know that, wave that semi indian flag above the sky, Swim in the mud quite cleverly thou...

[Ibtisam]

^^^As I expected, *P***y*-footing around when the challenge laagu hoordigo, but mouthing off before. Don't worry about where I swim or what I weave my dear...

[Emperor]

^Beware girl, I said swim so cleverly, I don't want to feel sorry later, after all you are a girl... or otherwise you might as well stay in the woman corner

[Ibtisam]

^^How predictable, the "girl" card. :rolleyes: run along please, aama sheeka cuusb keen, don't worry about me, have no mercy, you have my permission. :cool:

[Emperor]

^The man side of me says always act soft when dealing with girls and roar like lion when with men....

 

Girls are just great to depate with but time, sometime ego, emotions and you know the sympathy is always there from the men side, Lool

 

Im sorry to Hijack your topic, never meant, Sorwie again, you see men sympathy kicks in

[Gediid]

The man side of you seems to be giving you all the wrong signals saaxiib,it seems the roar you refer to isnt a roar but a tiny whimper barely heard....

[Ibtisam]

^^^Loool^

 

Baal lets hear it yaa Emperor, roar away aan kuu araagneeh. Man side, women side, ego, emotions, excuses, excuses.

[Emperor]

Geedid, And you are? I was having a good exchange with the sister what's with you...

 

Oh, Let me think, you are Somalilander, and what is that if I may ask, chill out waryaa gadhada is far more stable than anything you will ever present.

 

Ibti I have onething in mind but for now I will keep it to myself

[Ibtisam]

^^What is it?? Your last remaining bullet in your own time, when you feel save enough do tell us, I promise I won't laugh.

[Emperor]

^Ok I will when I feel save enough, Lol, as if..

 

Meeshi ciyaal baa soo galay doonaya inay nala qabsadaan nagu sheeka bartaan, so Im out...

 

PS: Ignore the Somali bit, don't even try, obviously will be hard for you and might get out the wrong concept, just a Warning , and Im out, it's Friday night and Fresh is needed...

[Ibtisam]

If insulting and name calling kick-starts your weekend, then waa caadi you can igu sheeko baaro to massage your ego a little.

 

No one forced you inaad ciyaal uu soo qaashidi in her own thread and then complain. :rolleyes: Fruther more, basic manners dictates that if you felt I cannot understand aaf somali, innad your aflaagadado engrisi kuu writegaresid. Too bad for you that this time I do understand, perfectly fine if I may add.

 

Enjoy your weekend. :cool:

[Chimera]

Ibtisam

 

The Northwest and the Northeast were indeed pushing in the same direction as the South and that was 'Unification. The decree regarding the adoption of the constitution in our country was done in haste and this caused one prominant party from the Northwest SNL to campaign against the ratifications of this constitution. They however were not against the Union!. In every newly born country or Unions such incidents are common(see the Dutch and French responses to the EU constitution).

 

Hargeisa - Berbera - Burao - Erigavo collectively in that time period had a population of over 100k, while the Northwest and Northeast combined could boast a population of 500/600k not all them were eligable to participate in the referendum wether due to age,occupation(nomads cared little for such referendums or politics in general which was something the Urban Somalis in the North and South occupied themselves with) etc etc. Still an insignificant village like Wanla Weyn with a population of maybe 2000 people could never outvote the 100k voters from the North, this was just a classic case of ridiciously inflated figures being abused ( the fact that every census on Somali population figures were always so sloppy and inflated/deflated is a good indicator of this problem). But the population in the South was three times as large as the population in Northern Somalia so in the end the absence of that incident wouldn't have made a difference

 

Southern domination the way it's portrayed in recent books is equally exagerrated, The speaker of the house was Sheikh Ali Ismail and he was from the Northwest. Future President Ali Sharmarke had it's origin in the Northeast though today is erronously refered to as a southerner [1] because he stayed in the ''Capital city of the Somali people'' by this definition Prime Minister Mohammed Ibrahim Egal was equally a Southerner because he too lived in the ''Capital city of the Somali people'' despite originating from the Northwest.

 

There was an uneven balance from the start that's a fact, and understandable if you look at how the Brits and Italians individually handled their parts of Greater Somalia from 1950 to 1960. But this doesn't mean there were no attempts to even the balance

 

Under UN trusteeship the South was prepared for Independence and party politics were allowed to emerge. In the North political development was much less advanced. Whereas independence in the south which came in late june 1960, followed a systematic timetable, the British decision to grant it's Somali colony independence was almost a spur-of-the-moment decision. When the leaders of the two independent Somali states entered into negotiations on how to form a union of the two, northern elites were at a clear disadvantage. They had not as much experience with the Western styled governance or institution building as their counterparts in the south [2]

 

North-South tensions were strong from the start. Eventhough the capital of the new republic was in the South and most Southerners weren't proficient in English, English became the working language of government. Northerners tended to come to Mogadishu to take up positions in the national bureaucracy and to become involved in commerce. [3]

 

While after indepedence Aden Abdulle Osman became president and Ali Sharmarke became prime minister,Mohammed Ibrahim Egal became minister of defense in the newly formed government. Considering Somalia's foreign policy at the time which was; seeing the unification of all Somali territories something Somalis from Djibouti to Hargeisa to Bosaso to Mogadishu to Wajir to Jigjigga supported and held dear, ment this position was as important and prestigious as the positions taken up by Aden and Sharmarke(since he was responsible for the military build up and power projection of the Somali republic)

 

In 1964 his new party SNC(Somali national congress) increased it's following significantly(higher than the predecessor SNL) but SNC together with a few other prominant parties could not match the popularity of SYL. He therefore decided to join the same party(SYL) and supported Ali Sharmarke for the Presidency, when Ali Sharmarke became president he returned the favor by making him Prime Minister. In his term as prime minister Egal incorporated multiple clans into the government and began the process of balancing power.(though a handicap trait of the Somali people suddenly surfaced and alas there were 4 million different political parties for a population of 4 million)

 

I've said this before on SOL (in a different topic) the fact that the military junta with the help of a northerner called Captain Khaawe deposed the Sharmarke-Egal administration means his new policies were from then on irrelevant since the military government was now the single dominant power in Somalia and the old constitution was no more.

 

I personally know individuals who are die-hard Somaliland supporters some of them being long time friends of mine. when i asked them to put forth their reason(s) for secession these three points continued to resurface:

 

A -the 5 days difference between the South and North

B -Neglect in terms of development by the old government

C - Human rights abuses by the old government

--

5 days difference

 

I made a long elaborate post once on SOL about this insignificant point and how an entity cannot base their legitimacy for secession on this point alone let me repeat it:

 

(A) It was agreed upon by the UN council in 1950 that Southern Somalia would move out of the trusteeship in 1960.

 

(B) SYL lobbyists(who btw were lobbying for a Greater Somalia which had British parlementarian support untill the US put down it's weight and backed Haile Sellasie) were calling for the independence of all Somali territories in the 50s

 

These two situations convinced the British government to synchronize the date of it's protectorate's independence with that of the Trusteeship. If these two factors weren't in play Northern Somalia would have seen a similar independence date as a country like Kenya(1963) [4]

 

The fact that there's only a 5 days space between the two dates is more credit to the beforementioned A&B factors(deliberate synchronization). So it's unwise to use this miniscule time differences to support a argument for a seperate country since all original plans for Northern Somalia were either Greater Somalia or Union with Southern Somalia( think about; if Somaliland was intended to be an independent country why did it so quikly agree upon Unity if this was not the reason allready for independence?). [5]

 

Neglect by the old government

 

Was the northwest really as underdeveloped and a nomansland as today is claimed? no not at all!(though the development there was inferior to the south it was still superior to the Northeast) there were more elementary and secondary schools operating in that time period compared to the british era when only two secondary schools were operating(though one of them was a prominant one -(Sheikh).) There was a steady urbanization going on supported by Somalis from Mogadishu and NGO's [6] . Then you had the small diaspora from that region that was stimulating trade aswell based out of countries such as Saudi Arabia and Kenya.

 

even a scholar sympathising with the secession confirms this about the North:

 

When i handed over my post in 1966 there were several hundred schools at all levels from elementary schools to college. By the last year of the Barre regime there was not a single school functioning in full strength. The majority of the buildings had been destroyed, while others were converted into camps for the refugees from Ethiopia [7]

 

One of the most significant iconic mediums of the 60's/70's in Somalia had it's seat there: Radio Hargeisa i can not find anything..anything! that could match it's weight in Somali pop culture anywhere else in Somalia(Mogadishu excluded). A national theatre was build in Hargeisa where well known Somali poets performed their work again i can not find anything resembling this in the North east

 

The most interesting revelation i have stumbled on recently is how one particular individual now a major player in Somaliland politics was himself part of this neglect of northern Somalia under the early Military Junta:

Ahmed M. “Silanyo”

-Minister of Planning and Coordination (1969-1973)

-the Minister of Commerce (1973-1978 and 1980-1982)

-Chairman of the National Economic Board (1978-1980).

 

He was responsible for government planning,spending etc etc in different positions from 1969 to 1982 are you saying he felt no connection with his ancestral region at all? and therefore neglected it completely? that he left for Ethiopia to join a anti-government group won't change the fact that he had a decade and a half the chance to make a difference the way Mohammed Ibrahim Egal made a difference on the Somali political scene when he put his weight behind Sharmarke and then became prime minister. He is just one of the many individuals who left Somalia to join the retarded STN, STV,SSS, SBD's etc and now pretends to be a hero when he did nothing for us when he was in the position to do so.

 

Back to the main point yes there was neglect, yes government development should have been increased but make no mistake the Northwest(Somaliland) was not alone in this neglect for the Northeast today know as Puntland had it worse and again make no mistake there are individuals hailing from this region(Somaliland) that share the blame for this neglect(i'm sure there are more individuals than the before highlighted person that were involved and i will look them up). Also take this into account many people say the South dominated, or Southerners were wealthier than the rest ...if this is true please ask yourself for a minute: why are there from Hargeisa to Bosaso to Hobyo thousands of families who demand their properties in Mogadishu( the capital of all Somalis remember?) to be returned to them as they are the rightfull former owners, how could this be possible if the Southern elite was predominantly ''Southern in origin''? that doesn't make sense hence the revisionist crap of the so-called mighty southerners and the tiny northerners is just that 'revisionist crap'

 

Human rights abuses

 

During the late period of the dictatorship gross humanrights abuses were being committed on our people all over the country, including the northwest, but a region cannot claim it's going to seperate because a single adminstration mistreated them, again they were not unique in this mistreatment there were similar violations in other parts of Somalia. And here again we have another case of a person who today is a major player in Somaliland politics that shares the blame in what happened during the Barre Regime:

 

Dahir Riyale Kahin

A Sergeant and a loyalist of the Barre regime, there were thousands of soldiers both in high positions and lower ranks that deserted and resigned because they would not have a part in this criminal government, a whole airforce defected prompting the dictator to hire foreign pilots. While all of this brave Somalinimo was being displayed by honest Somali men and women this criminal continued serving the Barre regime:

 

Mohamed Said Barre is not alone in his guilt for these crimes against humanity, for which no-one has yet been prosecuted. Some of the other key architects of this policy of annihilation, men like Mohamed Saeed Morgan, Mohamed Hashi Gaani and countless other collaborators, continue to wreak havoc in Somalia. Others, including Mohamed Ali Samater, live in comfortable exile in the United States and elsewhere in the world. And then others are right here in Somaliland. And they include President Dahir Rayaale, who was head of the feared and powerful secret service, the National Security Service (NSS) in Berbera. President Rayaale is named in A Government at War With Its Own People.

 

The town of Berbera saw some of the worst atrocities of the war, even though the SNM never entered Berbera in 1988. Elders and businessmen were immediately arrested en masse after the SNM attack on Hargeisa and Burao; between 27 May and 1 June, they were transferred to Mogadishu. The killings, which were exceptionally brutal in Berbera, began shortly afterwards. Many of the victims had their throats slit and were then shot. A series of massacres which have been mentioned again and again took place, mainly in June, in Buraosheikh, close to Berbera, when about 500 men were killed in groups of between 30-40. Some of the victims were from Burao, Hargeisa and surrounding villages who had come as temporary labourers to the port of Berbera. Others were asylum seekers who had been returned from Saudia Arabia. The names of some of these men are listed in the book. As head of the NSS in Berbera, Dahir Rayaale bears a heavy and direct responsibility for their fate.

 

Witnesses who are alive also recall Rayaale’s contribution to the war against civilians. One of the people I interviewed in Djibouti in August 1989 and who is cited in the book is Abdifatah Abdillahi Jirreh. He was only 14 at the time, but he remembered Dahir Rayaale.

 

One day in mid-August [1988], Dahir Rayaale, head of the NSS, came to our ice plant and took my father away. They also arrested one of the watchmen, an old man, Farah Badeh Gheedi. They were detained in the police station, accused of talking about the prospects of the SNM coming to Berbera.

 

Rayaale is not the only man who has held a senior political position in Somaliland whose conduct of human rights has been questioned. Many former members of the NSS and the HANGASH, the military police that came to exert formidable power over civilians, today occupy key positions in Somaliland in the NSS, re-established in 1995, and the Criminal Investigations Department (CID). The people they tortured, interrogated and spied on, and the people whose loved ones they killed, will, one day, no doubt give their own account [8]

 

You see everybody is guilty in this conflict, nobody is innocent this man's crimes are wellknown yet he recently received a one year extension. How can one base their legitimacy for secession on the horrible events of the past and at the same time employ one of the perpetrators as president?

 

The idea for secession was a new invention, the coup in 1961 was never ment to seperate Somalia, the junior officers and cadets actually made General Dauud (the 'father of the Somali army') the head of our country [9][10] . Those same junior officers were then tried in court by a Hargeisan judge in Mogadishu and were eventually freed [11] (this is a clear indicator that the incident was not for seperation and hence not taken seriously despite the fact that a crime against the state could result in the death penalty)

 

So yes we were on 'shaky grounds' from the 'start' since that was the legacy of 'colonialism' which ment this small but significant nation which was fighting the 'good fight' had to climb Mount everest with the weight of the Rocky mountains saddled on it's back

 

[1]-pg 283 Democracy and War: Institutions, Norms, and the Evolution of International Conflict

[2]-pg 31 Exploring Subregional Conflict: Opportunities for conflict prevention

[3]-ibid pg 32

[4]- As there was no plans to grant early Independence to the territory, progress towards self government was slow untill the second half of the fifties. Around that time, however the pace was greatly accelerated chiefly to the growth of nationalist movement and the approaching date of independence in the Trustee ship -The Somali Republic: An Experiment in Legal Intergration pg 4

[5]-In February 1960 a Legislative council was elected by Universal adult male suffrage. On April 6 this council unaninamously passed a resolution stating its desires to recieve independence before 1 july, so that the country could be united with Somalia when it became independent -Encyclopedia Americana pg 251

[6]Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations - pg 259(hargeisa urbanizations)

[7]-Crisis Management and the Politics of Reconciliation pg 79 - Hassan Magag Samatar (testimony)

[8] Justice for the Atrocities of the 1980s: The responsibility of politicians and Political parties - Rakiya Omar

[9] The actual motive or motives of this aborted coup may never be made public, and the only clear statement about it that can be made is to repeat what each side side asserted. The lieutenants claimed that they were acting against ''tribalism'' and corruption and that their intention as Somali patriots was to seize the reigns of government in the entire country - John William Heelloy: Modern Poetry and Songs of the Somali pg 128

[10] Ibid - The Junior officers announced that they had made General dauud [commander in chief of the army], as head of state

[11] The Somali Republic: An Experiment in Legal pg 60

[12] Somalia--the Untold Story: The War Through the eyes of Somali women pg 86