Pi Posted January 23, 2007 ^^ Paragon: I see you don't have the Abu prefix anymore. I think you'll be less hostile this time. LOL. Okay, before I talk about the issues, let me briefly address one thing. I think you should drop this friend/foe, us vs them, and other combative dichotomies. Let's discuss the message, not the messengers. MKA Yonis is neither a friend nor a foe anymore than you are. Dude, don't make it seem like I'm defending a "friend". That's childish. I'm sure you agree. Back to the message. It's one thing to say that a certain ideology is antithetical to Islam. For instance, someone who ascribes to Islam yet thinks that the Quran is distorted, or someone who rejects everything and anything the prophet said. Anyways, I adopt the blame the sin, not the sinner approach, unless it show beyond a reasonable doubt that the person understands what he/she is saying. Whether this can be shown is a different question. Actually, I skipped over his blanket takfir of everyone. And I think it's a salafi tendency to think that way- not all salafis, but some. For the record, I don't agree with him on that. I would attribute that some emotional imbalance as well. Not much different from Rahima's emotional response. xiin, it's one thing to say that a certain action is that of hypocrites, but it's a different thing to say that so-and-so is a hypocrite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xiinfaniin Posted January 23, 2007 Originally posted by Pi: Actually, I skipped over his blanket takfir of everyone. And I think it's a salafi tendency to think that way- not all salafis, but some. For the record, I don't agree with him on that. Where did you get the notion that 'blanket takfiir' is a 'salafi tendency'? I have conisdered your 'not all salafis' disclaimer, mind you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pi Posted January 23, 2007 xiin, do you think salafiyyah is certainly the one saved sect? A simple yes or no would do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 Maashallaah! Al-Hamdulilaah, for seeing my fan base coming out in support! Thank you for coming out of your closet! I shall add you to the official list of MKA Yoonis fans! Now after that sacarcism of mine let's return to the original discussion! Abu first, so you admitting that you're part of that group, well that's good for you, I say! Before we go into the salafi and hizb discussion, let me reiterate to you, that it wasn't me who condomned the Hizb to hell-fire but the righteous Ulama of this deen! They have condemned their views and Islaam gives us criterias for doing so, we can judge certain groups on their aqaaid and what they believe in! So educate yourself first, the shuyuukh of this religion have talked and written many articles on the Hizb and their wrong actions, so there is no room for debate hear Abu! To Pi, brother mine is not takfiir, for as takfiir has certain shuruudos to consider before condemning individuals, I'm not condemning anyone! For example you become a kaafir, when you say that Shariicah should not be appled because it isn't appriopriate any longer and that it is out of date then you will become a kaafir! Like when you get asked why you drink Alcohol and you say because it's halaal to do so, you will become a kaafir because you're making lawful that isn't lawful, you get my point! Actions alone can not condemn a person to be a kaafri for example if you see me having a 'lager', then you cannot call me a kaafir because on the sins alone one doesn't become kaafir or a hypocrite, that's the takfiiri and khawaarij appraoch like Rahima is doing! She hasn't looked in any ones heart but she's concerned with actions like they khawaarij are doing if they see you committing a sin then you will be condemned to be a kaafri! I already outlined to you that I won't even condemn George W Bush to hell-fire because I don't know where he will end up, maybe he will go to Al-Jannah and me as a muslim will go to hell-fire God forbid inshallaah as I live on al-khauf and Ar-rajaa! Do you know the hadith were it says that if a certain persons acts like the people of hell-fire and then at a arms length between him and hell-fire he decides to become a muslim that he will enter paradise? The same for a person who prayed all his life and two days before he died or an arms length between him and Jannah decides to act like the people of hell-fire that he will eventually end up in hell although he prayed all his life? Allaahu Akbar! Remember Abu Sufyaan Al-Xarb, Khalid bin Waleed and Camar bin Al-Cas, the heroes of Islaam, who could condemn them to naar prior to their converting to AL-Islaam? Brothers and sister the Hizb is a dangerous group and it was condemned to hell-fire because of the beliefs that counter Ahlu-Sunnah wal Jamaacah, it didn't come out of the blue or they were sinning but because of their denial of certian aspects of the deen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 Pi with all honesty Xiin is not part of the Salaf for as someone who loves the Shiicah Ithna Cashariyyah is not part of the Salaf! Get that in to your heart brother! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted January 23, 2007 MKA Yoonis said: Before we go into the salafi and hizb discussion, let me reiterate to you, that it wasn't me who condomned the Hizb to hell-fire but the righteous Ulama of this deen! Some Ulema, aren't they? What are they, soothsayers? How the hell do they know who enters hell or heaven? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted January 23, 2007 MKA Yoonis said: Before we go into the salafi and hizb discussion, let me reiterate to you, that it wasn't me who condomned the Hizb to hell-fire but the righteous Ulama of this deen! Some Ulema, aren't they? What are they, soothsayers? How the hell do they know who enters hell or heaven, let alone Hizb ul Tahriir? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalaf Posted January 23, 2007 People people! Fadlik...why muslims always condeming ppl to hellfire? Sxbs Islam is most merciful, remember the ayat that said someone with an atom (nothing is smaller then an atom) of iman will not enter hell....this is why are screwed always arguing.....the Quran only mentions Muslims not salfiya, ect but Muslim! MKA sxb u said: For example you become a kaafir, when you say that Shariicah should not be appled because it isn't appriopriate any longer and that it is out of date then you will become a kaafir! ^^^The TFG is secular and will prefer democrasy man made system no?....u just called dem kafir gotta give to u bro no matter how logical the arguments u still stick to yours hardhead....a true reer mudag! keep on playa! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 First of all Khalaf I'm not reer mudug! Secondly I never said the TFG was kaafir brother, the same TFG never said that the Shariicah was out of date or not applicable because no sane muslim would say that, you know! So don't get things consfused up brother! Ruling without the law of Allaah does not make anyone kaafir but to say that the Shariicah is irrelevant or not modern enough for this era is! TFG never said that and they will never do it either akhi, so what is your point! Ruling without the law of Allaah is a kufr of a different kind but you wouldn't know it because you're remember still a student of knowledge and I should try to educate you brother, remember the deal of ours, that as a seeker of knowledge you should not say things without considering it first! Besides that who or which country now in the world rules with the Kitaab of Allaah? If you give me two countries that do, then I shall give you something to play with! How about a 'football' or as you live in America 'how about an oval ball to play Rugby football'? So are all those muslim nations kaafir? In the Transitional Federal Charter it says that Islamic law is the base for all the laws in the country, surely you don't want me to quote it for you? Brother I make sense whilst most of you don't so what gives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 First of all Khalaf I'm not reer mudug! Secondly I never said the TFG was kaafir brother, the same TFG never said that the Shariicah was out of date or not applicable because no sane muslim would say that, you know! So don't get things consfused up brother! Ruling without the law of Allaah does not make anyone kaafir but to say that the Shariicah is irrelevant or not modern enough for this era is! TFG never said that and they will never do it either akhi, so what is your point! Ruling without the law of Allaah is a kufr of a different kind but you wouldn't know it because you're remember still a student of knowledge and I should try to educate you brother, remember the deal of ours, that as a seeker of knowledge you should not say things without considering it first! Besides that who or which country know in the world rules with the Kitaab of Allaah? If you give me two countries that do, then I shall give you something to play with! How about a 'football' or as you live in America 'how about an oval ball to play Rugby football'? So are all those muslim nations kaafir? In the Transitional Federal Charter it says that Islamic law is the base for all the laws in the country, surely you don't want me to quote it for you? Brother I make sense whilst most of you don't so what gives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 First of all Khalaf I'm not reer mudug! Secondly I never said the TFG was kaafir brother, the same TFG never said that the Shariicah was out of date or not applicable because no sane muslim would say that, you know! So don't get things consfused up brother! Ruling without the law of Allaah does not make anyone kaafir but to say that the Shariicah is irrelevant or not modern enough for this era is! TFG never said that and they will never do it either akhi, so what is your point! Ruling without the law of Allaah is a kufr of a different kind but you wouldn't know it because you're remember still a student of knowledge and I should try to educate you brother, remember the deal of ours, that as a seeker of knowledge you should not say things without considering it first! Besides that who or which country know in the world rules with the Kitaab of Allaah? If you give me two countries that do, then I shall give you something to play with! How about a 'football' or as you live in America 'how about an oval ball to play Rugby football'? So are all those muslim nations kaafir? In the Transitional Federal Charter it says that Islamic law is the base for all the laws in the country, surely you don't want me to quote it for you? Brother I make sense whilst most of you don't so what gives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faarax-Brawn Posted January 23, 2007 Originally posted by Pi: ^^ MKA Yonis is neither a friend nor a foe anymore than you are. Dude, don't make it seem like I'm defending a "friend". That's childish. I'm sure you agree. Maashallaah! Al-Hamdulilaah, for seeing my fan base coming out in support! Thank you for coming out of your closet LoooooL. Meeshan either someone is "ironing" himself on someone or someone is distancing himself from the other one. Classic Dameer & his two ears sheeko baan ku idhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 First of all Khalaf I'm not reer mudug! Secondly I never said the TFG was kaafir brother, the same TFG never said that the Shariicah was out of date or not applicable because no sane muslim would say that, you know! So don't get things consfused up brother! Ruling without the law of Allaah does not make anyone kaafir but to say that the Shariicah is irrelevant or not modern enough for this era is! TFG never said that and they will never do it either akhi, so what is your point! Ruling without the law of Allaah is a kufr of a different kind but you wouldn't know it because you're remember still a student of knowledge and I should try to educate you brother, remember the deal of ours, that as a seeker of knowledge you should not say things without considering it first! Besides that who or which country know in the world rules with the Kitaab of Allaah? If you give me two countries that do, then I shall give you something to play with! How about a 'football' or as you live in America 'how about an oval ball to play Rugby football'? So are all those muslim nations kaafir? In the Transitional Federal Charter it says that Islamic law is the base for all the laws in the country, surely you don't want me to quote it for you? Brother I make sense whilst most of you don't so what gives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted January 23, 2007 Another mistake by yours Brownie! My fan base are all those folks that have contributed in this thread foremost Rahima and Xiin, they cannot get enough of Yoonis's wisdom! I'm a school and a higher learning institution in one! I cater to all, from the ignorant 'I never went to schools likes' to the arrogant 'I studied and know it all'! 'No, you don't' what fool you're'! This is a new brand called 'Brand Yoonis Wise' or in short BY's! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
