Gay party men may be given hormone treatment

[SeeKer]

Kill? Hurt? Repentful=forgive? Some people prefer killing thus eradication. Is there a clear path on this or do we follow the whims of the authority judging the "deviants"?

 

Catro as to what you said I will follow-up on it for I am pressed for time at the moment.

[Castro]

^ Read about coffee and gays in another (similar) thread on SOL before you respond.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Good Castro, that saves our time. And she will sure find a lot of skeletons on that battle-ground.

[Castro]

^ Skeletons indeed. I'm not one to worry about skeletons though. I'm all for cleaning out the attic.

[axmed_fiqi]

It's sad this is happening in a muslim countrey.

 

 

May God guide them

[SeeKer]

Castro lemme say I didn't read the whole 12 pages of the arguement because I am familiar with SOL debates especially ones which bring doubts into the fine lining of religion. As for what Ngonge wrote I read that before somewhere .

 

Here is the thing since its an all or nothing game. The game is rigged, looking at it from my stance point. We are set up to fail. If we accept faith as the bread and butter of life completely it is then logically you would denounce secularism . Set up to fail for us flawed humans....... brings back memories to questions I had before about faith.

 

Hmmm personally I always thought I could toe the middle line but if I used Ngonge's arguement I would be doomed to pick a side and deal with the consequences of it.

[Castro]

^ Careful there with the 'game' analogy. It's been used before with semi disastrous consequences. You should have read the final 5 pages or so of the coffee is homo thread. Push and shove your way past all the ego flying around. Now, let me get back to you after I feed my seeds.

[SeeKer]

Will do after I get done with presiding a meeting. I should go by starbucks bloody weather sucks

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Callypso:

I'm trying to understand why someone would NOT live a life of "self-hate and worry" if, say, they were devout Muslims and also gay at the same time. Even if they never slept with members of the same sex, human nature would dictate that they agonize about it. To be a really religious person sometimes seems to require a great deal of guilt and a sense of worthlessness.

 

So that's why I asked you if you followed

all

commandments religuously, so to speak. Otherwise this "rant" devolves into "Obey god when you can". Not exactly a rousing battle-cry.

 

It's easy for you to say,

drop everything and follow the commandments

but hard in practice. Who has never lied? Gossiped? Envied another? Who has never missed a prayer? It's easy to visualize god forgiving all of those sins, but when it comes to homosexuality,

oooh boy

. Let's lock them up, or beat them up or kill them or shoot hormones into them. Note this part isn't aimed at you, just commenting on a general attitude among many here.

I don’t think you could be a devout Muslim and a homosexual at the same time. At least I don’t think you could be a practising and ardent homosexual and still claim to fully follow Islam. It just does not add up.

 

As I understand it (without digressing into the natural/unnatural arguments) homosexuality is a lifestyle. A man or woman that have homosexual urges but don’t act on them surely can’t be sinful and can not be judged on those urges (see the article about Pope).

 

My argument is for and about active homosexuals that are also Muslim. If they want to be devout, the guilt must tear them apart (this is assuming, they’re happy to adhere to the faith as it is and not as they would wish it to be).

 

I don’t and can’t imagine the guilt of lying would lead to such self-hatred as the guilt of homosexuality (or adultery, for those with any real feelings and values).

 

My battle cry (if battle cry it is) is follow the faith as much as you possibly can. That does not mean to pick and choose what to follow but rather that being human it’s understandable, expected and natural to sin. The real quandary comes after one sins and one’s reaction to that.

 

The beat them up, shoot them down brigade sometimes have a point, but like the lawyer in the article they’ve become too obtuse to bother to explain it. They make a long story short by killing, beating or injecting homosexuals with hormones. They fear that to discuss is to justify it.

[Castro]

Originally posted by SeeKer:

Here is the thing since its an all or nothing game. The game is rigged, looking at it from my stance point. We are set up to fail. If we accept faith as the bread and butter of life

completely

it is then logically you would denounce

secularism

. Set up to fail for us flawed humans....... brings back memories to questions I had before about faith.

Here's the thing: we're not naturally flawed. If we were, then Christianity is the way to go for it tells us we're sinners by birth. I don't believe that anymore than I do the flat earth theory (I can't get over this one ). What we are, are easily corrupted hence the greatest reward going to the most restrained and disciplined. The 'game', if you insist on calling it that, is not rigged. Rigging it defeats the purpose of having a game at all. Even in human courts, entrapment by the police is not admissible as evidence in courts. Why on earth would God entrap us when we've been given the message in its entirety. Yes, even I ponder religion.

 

Homosexuality and its nature is not a mistery. It's not in the realm of the unknown. We've been told it's a deviation. If it ever comes to pass there is irrefutable evidence of it being "natural", we will have a problem. I didn't always but I now believe that day will never come. There are issues, however, of living with and dealing with homosexuals. Courts, the health system, employment, adoption, military service, civil unions, etc.. are all worldly issues people will have to deal with humanely and fairly. These issues are not the same as contemplating the nature of homosexuality.

 

I can't possibly say anymore on this issue.

[SeeKer]

Ok I will leave it at that I suppose and keep my questions to myself. :confused:

[N.O.R.F]

My battle cry (if battle cry it is) is follow the faith as much as you possibly can. That does not mean to pick and choose what to follow but rather that being human it’s understandable, expected and natural to sin. The real quandary comes after one sins and one’s reaction to that.

 

The beat them up, shoot them down brigade sometimes have a point, but like the lawyer in the article they’ve become too obtuse to bother to explain it. They make a long story short by killing, beating or injecting homosexuals with hormones. They fear that to discuss is to justify it.

Interesting, you have two questions here.

 

a) Does discussing it with the aim of rehabilatating constitute to accepting it?

 

b) would it work?

 

c) or would the beat the beat downs/lashings be more effective in discouraging such acts (if caught in the act)?

 

I would go for the c to be the only way of discouraging and 'containing' such acts even though A may contribute 'a little' towards educating back towards celibacy.

[NGONGE]

^^^That was always the option being followed though. It’s not new, and evidently, it’s not effective. Nor, if you ask me, is it fair.

You are talking rehabilitation. Xiin is talking DEATH. Yet, let us not lose sight of the topic here and the background. Would you really kill the people in the article above? Is dressing up as women reason enough for the killing? How do you determine who is and who is not a homosexual?

 

 

When you say ‘contain’ and ‘discourage’ are you implying that we all have the potential of being gay?

[N.O.R.F]

^^ discourage and/or contain those with such urges/tendancies

 

As i stated 'if caught in the act' ie caught red handed/an admittance of guilt - once it has been proven, then the lashings/beat downs will be called upon. You may think it has been inneffective but imagine if there were never any beat downs/lashings ever conducted in a Muslim country for such an act :confused: but thats another topic.

 

The brutality towards ones comitting such an act has been a deterrent in the same way as the men/women who were shot for adultary in public in Afganistan during the Taliban rule was a deterent. Therefore, it has been working, it will never totally eradicate the problem it contains it through the 'beat down' process.

 

I conclude that the lashings will:

 

a)make them think twice about comitting such acts again or make them more detremined not to get caught

 

b)discourage those with such tendencies from comitting it (for the first time)

 

c)clearly state that such acts are not acceptable

 

If being caught dressed as a woman (in the article)at such a party/wedding is classed as being caught in the act then yes a beat down would be necessary. This will be more effective than a trial process (as in Church article) or hormone injections (as in original article)

[NGONGE]

^^^ Aha! But why beat them up then?

 

In such a case Xiin's argument is the correct one, wouldn't you say?

 

Gays need no hormone treatment. They need not be locked up either. They represent a reality of social tendency that’s clear deviation from the norm. The Islamic prescription for all social ills has been containment, and not one of denial.

 

Their practice must be censored from the public through harsh implementation of Islamic penal code. Simple. You don’t have to hate them. You don’t have to seek them. When they are ****** enough to expose their wicked practice to the public eye, eliminate them.

 

Simple.