Pardon me saxib, but I am of for the night.. Salamu Aliakum..

^^^No problems mate, have a good and safe evening.

^^^I was never got at creative writtings brother. Thus I stick to facts. Puntland's interst lies with the Somali governemnt and the establishment of a Federal state within the country. The Clan Courts are the same groups who have always been against Puntland and any government that is not run by them. You have avoided the core issues, which hinder your arguments. Thus your arguments is to go in circles, shouting " Tigray, Tigray, Tugray". Here are the core issues, why one canot take the courts seriously. 1. The continuing occupation of the south and the central role Xasan dahir, IndaCade and Cirfo [shura] member played in it. There is much evidance to this. 2. The irrational behaviour of the courts lately with their daily demo's and calls for Jihad, their aggressive policy of land grabing and their consistant lies to hinder the truth. These two points have swayed the public at latge to take a step back and watch the game as it unfolds. What ever weakenisses the TFG might have had, the Clan Courts have much more and have even less legitimacy and right to rule.

A great thread, once again thanks to brother Camir. I always like how Ridwan says the following," dont spin this out of context" when ever the idea that is Somaliland is on the ropes. Update us lads have they released the Suldan yet?

^^^Ridwan, no need to get personal or defend Jaylani, he has his own independent mind, I guess. Jaylani, thats an unusual question.

^^^ I will accept the calls from the two elders of SOL. Back to the topic. Bandiiradley:Ciidan kasoo goostay Maxkamadaha oo u galay ciidamada Puntland iyo koonfurta Mudug. Talaado, December 05, 2006 Bandiiradley(AllPuntland)- Ciidan gaaraya 35 askari oo ka tirsanaa maxkamadaha magaalada Muqdisho ayaa maanta galay dhinaca ay joogaan ciidanka Puntland iyo kuwa koonfurta Mudug. Ciidankan ayaa u badnaa kuwo reer Puntland ah oo horay ugu galay maxkamadaha, iyo ciidamo kale oo ku abtirsada koonfurta gobolka Mudug. Nin uhadlay askartan baxsadka ku yimid ayaa warbaahinta si wada jir ah maanta ugu waramay deegaanka Bandiiradley ee gobllka Mudug, halkaasi oo talisyada ciidamada ay saxaafadda ku marti qaadeen. Askarigan oo lagu magacaabo Maxamuud C/qaadir Mire ayaa sheegay in asaga iyo 17 askari inay gaar usoo baxsadeen ,wuxuuna sheegay in askar kale oo intaasi kudhowna ay soo baxsadeen laakiin ay maxkamaduhu qaar ka daba yimaadeen. Maxamuud C/qaadir mar AllPuntland wax ka waydiisay sababta keentay inuu waqti gaaban gudihiis maxkamadaha u galo , dabadedna kasoo laabto ayuu sheegay in maxkamaduhu lasoo bexeen qodobbo dhowr ah oo ay kamid yihiin:- ayagoo noo caddeeyay in lagu duulayo Puntland iyo Somaliland oo ah laba dhul oo nabad ah, in maalkooda iyo xoolohoodu ay yihiin Qaniimo(hantida maxkamadaha) iyo in dadka Puntland iyo Somalilandba ay yihiin dad u baahan in diinta la fahan siiyo. Maxamuud C/qaadir wuxuu sheegay in markii ay tageen Cadado loo qaaday tuulo cadaado u dhow , halkaasi oo tabobar looga furay, asaga iyo askar ka badan 300. Wuxuu xusay in halkaasi joogitaankeeda ay u adkaysan waayeen, arimaha badan ee uu soo sheegay dartiis, ayuu xusay inay ku kalliftay in rag aad ubadan ay go'aan ku gaaraan inay baxsadaan. Askariga la waraystay wuxuu sheegay in markii ay jidka soo hayeen uu la kulmay nin maxkamadaha ay isku mabda'a yihiin oo gaari wata, markii ay ka dalbadeen inuu qaadana uu ka wargeeyay oo uu maxkamadaha u sheegay, taasina waxay keentay in dhowr gaari laga soo daba diro. Maxamuud C/qaadir wuxuu sheegay in askarta uu asagu ku jiro ay siddeed siddeed u socdeen , illaa iyo iminkana ay la'yihiin askar badan meesha ay jiraan. Isku soo wada duuboo Maxamuud C/qaadir oo u waramayay taliska ciidanka iyo saxaafadda wuxuu xusay in khalad ay horay u galeen , kadib markii dalkooda iyo dadkooda oo nabad ah una baahan ay ka carareen,. CCC Farayaamo AllPuntland.

Point.. the debate was not about, if there are, my point was that there is a valid reason to get outside support. Since the enemy has major support and funding from oustide the country, notably Eritrea.

! That’s not however a popular position to take in Puntland. Waa meesha sarta ka quruntay adeer. To be sure some people, and a minority of them at that, hold such a view. Brother you must be jesting with me, aside from the legal considerations, that Puntland is part and parcel of the TFG. There are also local factors to take into account, for the majority of the people from Puntland in supporting the TFG, the TFG armed forces comprise a large number of local boys and officers that hail from all corners of the state. Famous ones like Col Sacid Dheere and Afgaduud. Thus the Puntland population and diaspora have strong feelings and will not watch their kinsmen attacked by fake Clan groups from Cadaado and Guriceel, who are also bent on capturing Galkacyu city. Saxib, your idealistic picturing of the situation in favor of the blood thirsty clan courts of Mogadishu have a few holes in it. 1. The Clan Courts policy is of aggression towards Puntland. They have publicly stressed that they would like to see, the establishment of sub-clan based militia in Puntland. A case in point is the BADBADO clan court. This would lead to the demise of the state and favour the Mogadishu group. 2. The Clan courts have pushed their clan militias from Guri-Ceel and Cadaado to lower Mudug, with the clar intention of fighting their way into south Glakcayu. 3. The Clan Courrts have the support of a large number of foreign fighters, who already have fought in Kismayu and Mogadishu. For these reasons, Puntland has taken these precautions. They have aligned themselves with the Sub Clan that is residing in South Mudug, gaining a buffer zone south of the state. They have also called on the support of outside help, to limit any military advantage the Clan Courts may have. They have also tightened up security in their state, thus preventing local sympathizers from gaining a foothold and causing mayhem within the state. Puntland support for the TFG, ensure its survival as a State within the republic. The Clan Courts and their masters want to return us to a centralized dictatorship. With them making all the decisions. Garowe wants to rule its territories with a weak Federal centre. The difference here is that Puntland and its people want to be partners with Mogadishu and not servants to it. Thus, from a legal point, internal clan issue as well as future interst. Any war on BAIDOA is a war on Puntland state. The TFG is not weak nor does it lack support when you consider that Puntland is its back bone.

^^^Saxib, not being low and the last remarks highlights your silly point. After the SSDF there was overcoming Aydeed as well as the establishment of Puntland state, as well wining the open election of 2004. Yusuf has come along way, and insha Allah he will prevail in uniting Somalia. Unlike you I am not certain of the future only Allah is.

No Che, the adeer refernce was made to highlight my clan. Thus you can not have it both ways. Its you who, for clan reasons attacks the President and Puntland. Though you will lift up your hads and sigh " Oh, I loath clans" then list Buhudle, Somali Galbeed and then Galkacyu and then Mogadishu as your haunts, trying to prove something other than the fact that your whole position is about clan. You would like the old mans clan to be cut to size noh, by the Clan courts no less. Since you do not agree with them ideologicly. What other reason could there be :rolleyes: .

Midda kale, there's no validity to the Abukar Caddaani tale in Kismayo! Ask me about that city saaxiib! The harbor is open and managed by that city's native sons I like that line, there no validity to anything against the Clan Courts. But we have to take all allegations against Cade as certain like the the holly scripture. Saxib, Xasan Turki has admited that he has to repay the 1.7 million loan by Abukar Cadaan. This is a afact unless you are living in denail. Xiin, Puntland is part of the TFG governemnt, it is the only state that fully recognises and has had dealings with it. Any attack on Baidoa is one on Puntland. much like any attack on the clan courts is an attack on the clan courts. Saxib, I cannot support the very men who occupy lower Shabbele and this not only IndaCade, for Xasan Dahir, Abdiqasin the leadera are the masters of those areas. Or will you again say, there is no validity?

^^^Khalaf brother, edit the clan name, before admin deleted the whole thread... In Puntland there are a number of clans outside the largest confideracy, who have full representation. Che, you are not as mysterious as you think mate. Also its you who always refers me to President Yey's nephew, so dont mind if one highlights what you are and how it effects, your stance in SOL. Xiin, the interview of the defectors and thier story is the biggest thig hitting the Galkacyu and Puntland major city airways.. Their story, a primary source of evidance against the courts will have an impact no doubt.

^^^I agree with you that we have internal disputes and differences of opinion. Its also a given that this is nothing compared to the civil war we had a few years ago and we survived. Internal dissent is to be expected, since we are poor with high unelployment rate and lack of prospects for many of our young men and women. The idea that the Clan Courts will run the affairs of the state better than its people is quite laughable. Consider how they manage the occupied areas of lower Shabbe & the abukar Cadaan monopoly on the ports of Mogadihsu and Kismayu. Nothing in the south can be compared to Puntland state. Also when the Clan Court reared their ugly heads, the clan have come together supporting the state, thus this conflict is not bad for Cade, it cements his position further. I want change for my state, but setting up competing sub-clan based courts and weakening the centre is not my idea of a solution to our many problems.

Saxib, you dont need to hide, I have long suspect your attacks on the President and Puntland stemed from nothing other than the internal clan politics of the state. Though I know the majority do support the state and dont want its demise. The answer to your question is, Puntland is more than capable of defending its state. But we also know that, the foreign fighters from Oromia, Eritrea and distant lands have given the Clan Courts some confidnace. Nothing wrong with evening out the playing field.

^^ You support the clan courts, if I assume to reasons some do, because they feel their clan gets little representation in Puntland. Due to them not belonging to the major confederacy. I have come across these individuals before, ". You provide nothing but emotive argument. As I have said before, the clan courts agression will halt when they are defeated. Also you gave me your families position I gave you mine, none saw any roaming bands og Tigray soldiers. Saxib, no one in Puntland wants to be lead by Xasan Dahir, [ maybe your family does] some of us know how he treats the people he occupies, we want none of it I tell you.

Xiin, I see no threat to puntland outside the Clan Courts, its collapse will only come about when its people do not eblive in it anymore. So far nothing I have indicates this. The Tigray presence a new excuse, before it was Shariah law introduction and South Galkacyu clan area, so it will go on, till either they lose or we do. Also Xiin, Xasan Dahir is repeating the same mistakes he did in Bossaso and Gedo. I would bet on this thing being no less than a new fake dawn for his ambitions.

^^^You are lost for words I guess

^^Saxib, you are not being truthfull here. Galkacyu's people are all united in their anger against the Clan Courts. I spoke to Galkacyu on many occasions these past few days and the news is as I have reported and as the Puntland media reported, very few Ethiopians in the area and most to support the Puntland troops. Now, you are blaming the whole issue on Puntland when even you highlighted conern, before Kismayu, when Caqowayne rushed to Galkacyu and Xasan Dahir used the clan argument of representing the southern Galkacyu clan as a pretext. This was not long ago, and these people ahve even taken over Cabudwaaq, without the support of the locals since then. Saxib, the old man is not out of the game yet and neither has Xsan Dahir acheived anything other than binging order to his clan base. Thus this whole opposition to the TFG and Ountalnd is not about religion, Ethiopia or justice. Its the same clan agenda that led to Puntland creation and the split of the Somali nation. It will only make us stronger as it did before.

^^^Saxib, when it comes to your clan and thier position I would accept it more than the words of someone from the opposite geographic location. Bsic logic.

^^^Che, the TFG has still three more years, one must not just comment when we are not even half way through the term. Saxib as for your family in Galkacyu, well lets just say mine in both parts holds a different opinion to you. They want to keep their city as it is and not a battle zone, the groups led by the likes of IndaCade and Xasan Dahir are not welcome in the city. Also they told me that the whole sub-clan have decided to fight any attempt by this group to take over Galkacyu, using any method at their disposal and getting any support to counter this threat.. Hence no word from BADBADO lately.

^^^I have given you a local website reporting on its clans position, you can not accept it, your problem.

^^^Saxib you are far too intelligent and insightful to start parroting the lines of Mogadishu media. I have personally spoken to folks in Galkacyu and not one has confirmed the lies of Mogadishu based media. The Ethiopian presence is no more than to counter its own rebels holed up In Cadaado and being used to attack the state. Thus while we have had sightings of foreigners in Mogadishu fighting, in Kismayu burning the flag, you would focus on the few Tigray fighters which are there to give support and training? Come on, you want us to tie our own hands and then call it a miracle when, Oromo, Eritrean, Pakistani fighters take over? No saxib, we are not fools.. Also the measures being taken in Puntland are no more than what is taking place in Mogadishu or Hargaysa, everyone wants to secure his position.

^^^Che, first one should never be dishonest when trying to have discourse with another. You have never supported the President and you should not now petend to do so. The driver for many here is the issue of Clan and that includes you. Galkacyu, is my home town both my parents are from its Northa and Southern areas. So to say its under siege is a lie. To pretend that Ethiopian troops control it is a lie. That is the propoganda of the Clan Courts and their media. Now, I do not deny that there is Ethiopian presence in the country and nor should you deny that there where Oromo, Eritreana nd foreign fighters who actually fought in the streets of Mogadishu and even in Kismayu. There has been enough sightings of these. Thus why should one tie up his own hands against his enemy? The story above highlights that even before a major clash has begun, people are starting to rethink their priorities, that what seemed popular two weeks ago is not so today. The Courts popularity is thus a fading mirage.

^^^ Well dera Xiin, many are running back home giving scary stories and reaffirming the belief that this is no more than the old enemy coming back in disguise. The Courts have lost, this brand is not gonna sell in Puntland.

^^^Ubahane, you have been missed old man, I thought you would be reporting at the front. Or like these men, have you rushed back to the comfort of your warm, US home? The usual suspect with a sense of humour today. Thats priceless.