LayZie, I upset enough people today already. I don't want to upset my old partner A&T. Anyway, I knew you were around and would give him your two cents (as you vulgar Americans would say). A&T, He's already married to her maxa xaraanta meesha keenay? It's downright offensive but I doubt if it's xaraam (yet).

^^ Miyo fahmaya dee. kaga daran, he's the one who encourged me in the first place.

^ I have none. I'm done here. Nothing to say. Nada. It's over. Soco, bax, tag, go.

^^ She will not understand a word you say (not because your Somali is bad, but because hers is not born yet).

^^ ega leexo warya. You're not the subject of my argument. A child that gets in trouble for not praying would also naturally be expected to wear the hijab. This is a non-issue.

Where do you get these stories from, ninyaho?

^^ Rolling her eyes and trying to praise me all at the same time. Confused smelly students. Tut tut.

^^ A nine year old gets beaten up if they don't pray, saaxib. They're not the subject of my argument. I clearly kept on mentioning five year olds because Ibti thinks they should wear the hijab too. ps The question was 'how young'.

^^ Stuff and nonsense, Ibti. I ask again: why would you MAKE a four-year-old wear a hijab. You don’t MAKE them pray five times a day, why make them wear a hijab everyday? It’s really simple. Don’t twist and turn. Xiin, I’ve already done that with North. If you’re for four-year-olds wearing the hijab then you must already know why. Or is it just because it sounds good?

Heh. CL is so cheesy I can see the worms from here.

You’re still missing the point, North. Indoctrination here is used to signify programming. A five-year-old, with the best will in the world, will not understand the meaning or the significance of the hijab. He/She is not obliged to wear the hijab, so what is with the insistence on making them wear it? Walk the straight line with me, saaxib. Don’t go veering left or right (and ignore Nino and Ibti for a minute). The. Question. Was. Asking. What. Age. Was. Too. Young. For. The. Hijab. Some argued that the age does not matter, it’s good for them, they said. How good? We asked. It teaches them the importance of hijab, they said. How does it do it when they’re only children, we asked. It doesn’t matter, parents know what’s good for their children, they said. Plus, it worked for ME, they added. But a child is not a robot, we said. A parent has every right to mould their children, they argued. If putting a piece of cloth on the head of a four-year-old is moulding in your opinion, we think it’s indoctrination (programming), we said. Everything in life involves indoctrination, they said. You don’t know what you’re talking about, I say. The question still remains, why put a hijab on a four-year-old that still probably wets his/her bed? There must be a very strong reason (since it’s not a religious obligation); you are the one supporting this measure, and it is for you to explain yourself. ps I can see a coherent argument without agreeing with it. Johnny's is coherent. He's asking valid questions.

Your swimming pool analogy is feeble, Cara. A four-year-old child not wearing the hijab is not going to suddenly plunge into sin, whilst one loitering around a swimming pool may drown. Again, I ask you to keep your eye on the ball (not what you think the argument is). The question asked is in the title of the thread. Reasonable explanation of what you're doing though may be a form of indoctrination is still miles better than forcing a child to follow norms and customs blindly. A four-year-old, as clever as they may be, is NOT going to understand the meaning behind the hijab. The benefits from making them wear it that early are minuscule and mostly relate to parents' vanity. The people arguing FOR the hijab here are using all sorts of silly arguments about habits, customs and other outrageous things. It's as if you're training a dog rather than a human. It's fair enough if we're talking about some irrelevant tradition or ancient custom but when it's a religious issue; you are encouraging the spread of Muslim robots. Again, before you go on a tangent about egos and what not, remember the original question: too young for hijab?

^^ Heh. A woman that fancies a man with better hair than her.

^^ NO it is not. Keep your eye on the ball. Don't let her confuse you, saaxib. School, work and the like requires explanation. There is education involved there. You are talking about putting a scarf on an infant's head.

Originally posted by +Faheema: quote:Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ Indoctrination here we come. Doesn't that apply to almost everything in life? Madarasa, School, Uni, Work and even marriage Of course it does. But if you're being indoctrinated as an adult and allow it to happen then it's your fault. To get brainwashed as a child as another ball game altogether. I am not in agreement with Johnny by the way. I just find Ibti's argument very weak. Edit: By the way, North and Ibti, you two are not arguing at all here. You're twisting and turning. Depends how you define a well-put argument kulaha! Parents shape their children's views, she says. How? You have not come up with one convincing argument to convince old senile me, how are you going to convince and shape a four year old's views? Other than following the 'do what I say and don't ask any questions method'.

^^ You're just being petulant now. Do you want me to quote him so that you can read it from a post of mine instead?

^^ What do you think? It's ten past two in the afternoon, she probably just woke up. Smelly student.

^^ Heh. What's the score between us now? five - nil, right?

^^ Heh. How sneaky of you, North. YOU were supposed to answer this question. ps North and Ibti, This is not about arguing with Johnny. He has valid points. It's a public forum. If you don't want to talk to him personally then don't talk to him but you will still have to deal with his well-put argument.

^^ It'll be another Germany means?

^^ Nobody asked you to narrow it down to anything. All we ask is for you to explain your reasoning. The way this above reply of yours comes across makes it sound that Johnny was right all along. Can't you see that?

^^ Well, it's mostly either wrong or exaggerated drivel.

^^ Indoctrination here we come. Ibti, You just made that list up. Sounds like a sexed up advert for the Hijab. A load of hogwash of course. North, I probably went to the Mosque at or around that age too. But did your father take you to the Mosque for EVERY prayer? We are not talking about gently introducing an infant to the Hijab; we're talking about it becoming a permanent piece of attire. I have not been convinced by any of these arguments.

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka: quote:Originally posted by NGONGE: Holland will not win tonight. It'll be another Germany. This is not a prediction. 2/3 possibilites. Stick to 1/3. It's a clear prediction, saaxib. Never had you down as one that struggles with language.

Where is CL and JB today?