^^ I don't like it when you speak in such a way, adeer. It tells me nothing and gives me no room to reply. Bal waxaad indha adeeg o malaysay ama xaasidnimo dhinac inuu dhig oo waxaad o qadataa in aan ahay nin qashiin aan waxba la socon, haye xaqdarada aad ka hadlayso iyo waxyaabahan kale ii sheeg (sawiro raaci hadaad doontid). Secondly, the green shoots of hope are real dee. Tuur was history and his defection made no difference nor does it have a chance to make a difference today. Raggan kale are here today and still live in SSC. If you believe they make no difference, I accept your position but you've got to give me more than the Tuur example to change my position adeer. p.s. ha i nicin adeero; siilaanyo warka uun ayaan ku arka lakin adiga halkanaan maalin walba kula sheekeesta. Isaga haduu madaxweyne yahay dee adigo boqorad yar baad ii tahay (xafidaki allah). Carada uun iga daa.

^^ War the D ila D suits you better. Waxan iska daa.

^^ NO! Do not use such language warya. It's just not YOU.

If "wet dreams" are an admission of guilt ala maxaan danbi galay (with all sorts of things, including an a monkey).

A_Khadar;729817 wrote: ^ Hope then your teammate will enlighten and answer my questions above. Let me educate you a bit about this, and let your ears hear something different than your Imaam's madness. There are two groups here sweating this conference to happen. One being Landers and other being Kayse's group, and both are wishing two totally different end results. 1. Landers need to isolate Buhodle and use Widhwidh community to help capture Buhodle since Kalshale failed. This can't be called a peace but new occupation so if you believe in a peace, this aint one. 2. Kayse's is there for $$$ and he sells this in any way possible to make money. And he is doing well recruiting more participants (though those he recruited so far seem to make not much difference) Having said that, I am seeing landers being very sut*pid and dump here for playing peace game when in fact they see before their faces that this card is already busted. Buhodle elders and those participated the bloody fight over Kalshale loudly denounced and even threatened to attack them. So we can NOT call this a peace conference rather it's igniting another and fresh war. It's politics, saaxib. Keyse wants dollars you say. Fine. Does Keyse have contact with those in the SSC (if not the leadership how about some of the people)? Is it possible for him to persuade others to abandon ship? You admit that he got some with him already. What if he can get others! What if these others have their own conditions along with a demand for dollars! What if some in the SSC leadership themselves want to see what's on offer? Surely you can't dismiss a peace conference and claim it is a plan for more war when (it seems to me) all it is is a simple meeting between two sides. I indeed want peace saaxib. You show me where innocents are being killed and oppressed by SL and I promise to condemn Siilaanyo and all that follow him. But if yours is simply a preception of oppression dee what better than a peace conference to get rid of all your doubts? p.s. Which is the Titanic in this context? This meeting or SL? You know the Titanic had some survivors, don't you?

^^ Dee stop teasing me first. Are you in or out? As for the green shoots of hope. No, that is not about recognition. It is about reaching an acceptable deal with the residents of SSC and having them as citizens of SL. I mean you've got to admit that the SSC bubble is leaking. First it was Xaabsade then Kayse and now this talk of the Khusuusi guys. If these are not green shoots of hope (note the use of the term) I don't know what is. p.s. You keep talking about innocent people dying but I never hear about them. Where, when and how?

War hadaba i maqla. ... That Farmajo is a good administrator and competent bureaucrat was already dealt with in my original post. But I’ve already shown you that this is nothing new in Somali affairs and actually gave you the examples of the Courts & Siilaanyo (whom, as you all saw, boasted about their administrative achievements to all and sundry). In addition, because Farmajo was in the job for less than a year, I also gave you the example of the Imam and the endless positive announcements in his first year in power (a fair comparison and legitimate question begs itself there; would Farmajo have ended up as the Imam?). Last I knew, this was a discussion forum that was (supposedly) a touch above the “waxa la yedhi” jungle of Somali coffee shops and streets. To regurgitate the arguments of wailing women in the streets of Mogadishu or the phone-in programs of U TV tells me nothing at all. “Farmajo waa nin fiican” ka godba and tell me what, why and how he became such a popular man (and is it justified?). Actually, let us turn it on its head or at least try to come at things from a different angle. Let us ask the question of what the mass hysteria regarding the resignation of Farmajo is hoping to achieve! In fact, let us assume that, like the Arab uprisings, this random protest does make a change and force the powers that be to reinstate Farmajo. What next? Is he politically savvy enough to outmanoeuvre the two Sharifs? Does he have the political know-how to chart a course for Somalia towards peace and hopeful prosperity? I personally do not believe he could. After all, the man was forced to resign the minute he was faced with his first direct political problem (the fallout with the Imam was a simple nuisance). So why the wailing and deafening hullabaloo? Well, since you do not know your own minds I suppose I am forced to explain. Human nature has always been about rooting for the underdog. We want Odysseus to reach home; feel for Hector as he defends his homeland; sympathise with a cat that is being cornered by a group of dogs; Support the Chinese man standing in front of that tank; admire Ghandi, Dr King, Malcolm X or good old Mandela. It is natural to reject unfairness and support the victim. Here, Farmajo was a victim of a nasty deal that was concocted by the two Sharifs and their supporters. It is understandable and normal that everyone feels angry about such a deal and sympathises with poor Farmajo. Still, there is a whole world of difference between being a victim of circumstances and deceit to becoming an indispensible hero, in the same way that there is a difference between sympathy and glorification. There was a rumour in SOL when Farmajo first took over that he was actually a member of this forum. Ordinarily, I would not fall for such rumours and “waxa la yedhi” claptrap. However, having known that another regular member of this forum is/was a serving member of Sheikh Sharif’s backroom staff, I would not hasten to dismiss the Farmajo rumour just yet. The revelation or possibility may make some proud of the idea of rubbing shoulders with such exalted company (indeed, the lion teaser may be rubbing his hands with glee already) but, to me, such a thought is depressing and extremely alarming. For in my six years in this place I am yet to come across an argument worthy of such lofty positions or (presumably) brilliant minds. This, of course, is not to say that I think the place is full of fools or that I dare to accuse any of you of lacking any intelligence. I merely state this point in relation to the thought that some of you may actually have an actual, real and genuine part in the way the current Somali government/politics is displayed and run. If such is the case, the answers to my questions in the original post seem utterly pathetic and clueless. As for the rest of you (those who, like me, are ordinary forum participants with no leg in any actual political camps), you too are (with respect of course) pathetic. Yet, yours is not a problem of understanding or comprehension. Your case is similar to a woman who gave birth to ten children! When asked “Why did you put yourself through the pain of childbirth ten consecutive times?” her reply was “After a few months, you forget about the pain”! <O:p</O:p So come back with me down memory lane. Remember the days when Yusuf was in charge and he dismissed Gedi? Remember the arguments that ensued before and after the dismissals? Remember the time when he sacked Nur Cade and gave his job to Guled? Remember how you felt (well, except if you were a Yusuf fan of course)? Remember how Nur Cade was hailed a hero when he got his UN/IGAD backers to outset Yusuf and go ahead with the Djibouti conference? Remember the Asmara lot and how they were treated as patriotic and heroic (even though all they did was run to another country and shout from the sides)? Remember how the sham stitch-up of Sheikh Sharif’s election panned out and how the same ladies in Xamar were out in the streets in gratuitous celebration? How many of you vehemently supported Gedi, Cade, Yusuf or Sharif only to be let down by their subsequent actions? How many of you went through that rollercoaster of high emotions and little thought? It seems to me that most of you are still on it. Nay, most of you are addicted to this unhealthy diet of emotional swings and roundabouts! Well. GET OFF! Look around you and set yourself some goals. Have a criterion for support. Put Farmajo or anyone that you decide to support and wail for under a huge microscope. Ask yourself what is it that you expect from these people and what is the minimum acceptable target. Ask yourself what is your ultimate goal and if a competent cabinet is the be all and end all of Somali problems. Ask yourself why is Farmajo not making capital of this valuable support and if he is worth such support after all. Ask yourself what are Farmajo’s achievements! And when you’ve done it all and found a reasonable reply come back to me and we can move on to Xiin & nuune's new hobby of blaming it all on outside influences.

AK, I have no idea what this conference is for nor do I know its agenda. The only outcome I hope for is those "green shoots of hope" that I was telling you about.

A-K, What if the news turns out to be true? Will you backtrack then? Play it my way saaxib. Take the news as it comes and only refute crazy stuff (such as the Imam being part of Al Shabab or some such nonesense). And, at any rate, even if this news is true and even if the conference was to take place, in your mind (for you believe in the SSC movement) should not change (though I hope that it would of course). In addition, with this being a "peace conference" there is a chance that it might actually fail. Xabadahaaga ag dhigo oo marba qorigaaga cabayso woxo dhan isku mar ha wada ridin dee.

^^ War waa caadi. But I'll tell you one thing for nothing (if you happen to be in touch with Farmajo). He must make full use of this here and now or else the people shall never rise again.

Gabbal;729792 wrote: He didn't ask a simple or even an honest question. That you are the only person in this topic to give him credibility should give you a pause. Also, you are right in the difference of euphoria. People were ecstatic when Sheikh Sharif was elected whereas for Farmaajo it was when he was asked to resign. In your less then intelligent attempt at a political jab you have failed to see people were moved by what Sheikh Sharif could have represented whereas for Farmaajo it was what he represented. Euphoria after accomplishment is the substantive euphoria, not the euphoria based on expectation . Honest question? Ok, I'll let that pass. But your post above brings us back to the original point. What "Euphoria after accomplishment" is this? War don't take words to heart, saaxib. I have nothing against Farmajo as a person. In fact, had I believed that he will make proper use of this latter day popularity I'd be the first to sing his praises. However, having watched the meek way he gave up the fight after first appearing to stand his ground, I hold no hope of him ever returning to the political arena in any major position (just like the PMs before him) and, THAT, is what puzzles me about all this overreaction. p.s. Talking about me being in London, hada ma adiga Villa Somalia jooga saaxib? That dig is way below you and you know it.

NASSIR;729680 wrote: "Despite the repeated reaffirmation of the UN Security Council of Somalia’s sovereignty, political unity and territorial integrity we are confronted today with the stark, ugly and shocking reality that the country’s sovereignty is only nominal and the old gunboat diplomacy is alive and well.* That kind of diplomacy was the modus operandi of imperialist powers in ages past.* But, since the rise of a liberal world order following the Atlantic Charter, the formation of the United Nations Organization, and improvements in transport and communication between different parts of the world, the demise of imperialism was hastened and gunboat diplomacy has been condemned, discarded and relegated to that dark age in which nations were bullying one another.* Nevertheless, there are instances such as the one we witnessed in Mogadishu today where it evinces some signs of life." Article Away with you and your conspiracy talk.

Our beloved "mugger" is back. You have been missed, Mr president.

Contrary to what many here are arguing I actually believe that it does not take much to unite Somalis. The majority of you (and I exclude myself wa man raxima rabi) are sheep. You united behind the Courts, you united behind Sharif and a large number are now lamenting the loss of Farmajo. You are an emotional lot that fall for and follow personalities. So, in order to unite you all, you just need a competent personality to lead you all. Find yourself a competent man and build him a personality ban ku idin odhan laha.

^^ I agree about Val and agree that things are not working out as perfectly as they should. But I also see green shoots of hope all over the place and don't think this project should be abandoned just yet.

NASSIR;729671 wrote: He is popular among the masses, and that is what matters the most in democratic ideals. I think the emergence of leaders whose support from the public transcends along clan lines is something to be rejoiced by every Somali person. Such phenemenon enlivens our Somali nationalism; it also frustrates the designers of the disintegration of the Republic. The Islamic Courts, despite its foibles and blunders in strategic calculation, was a popular movement nipped in the bud. And now we are witnessing another good faith effort on the side of high performance technorats and political leaders derailed by the same two Shariifs and their backers. Sheikh Sharif was popular among the masses and even got support from Norf above (who I drag into this becuse of his question above). I would have thought we have learned our lesson from the Sharif stitch up, saaxib! Let's hope this is a rhetorical question and good Ngonge wasn't expecting to see shining skyscrapers near Liido beach, total defeat of Shabaab, and new Somalia rising out of the ashes from the "world's foremost failed state" in the span of six months while fighting both external enemies of the TFG as well as internal enemies within the TFG. So what is it Ngonge? Is yours just mere disingenuous naysaying or shallow Western ignorance? Talking of total defeat of Al Shabab, your beloved Farmajo did say (earlier this year) that he would wipe them from every part of Somalia within 90 days. So, though I did not expect him to manage it, I could, should I wish to, point and laugh. Still, that is not my question. My question is about this empty sudden popularity, saaxib. Other than saying that he was a good man who was badly treated by the Sharifs and Uganda I truly see nothing that makes it look like Somalia lost some great leader (if it's ignorance, enlighten me. If "disingenuous naysaying", point it out dee). while PMs before him devoted their energies is meaningless trips, he has single single-mindedly pursued securing territory and providing for the liberated people even if what could provide was aid... More competent cabinet + more professional forces = the first foot steps to recovery... I love the tunnel vision there, NN. Saaxib, did the old warlords not pay their militias on time? As for previous prime ministers devoting their energies to meaningless trips, could you really argue that Farmajo did not do the same? I am willing to wager that no PM before has made more forigen trips (the man was almost catching up with Sheikh Hotel to be honest). Granted though, visiting the soldiers was a nice touch. p.s. Aaliyyah, nothing to be jealoues about adeer. The man lost his job. Dee naga daa.

^^ You say that everytime, adeer. This is a discussion of a current event and it's not going away. If you have it in you, you will attempt to give rational and logical replies but if all you're after are little online fights I humbly suggest that you go seek them elsewhere.

Ever since the Kampala Accord was announced many people have been in uproar and lamenting the loss of a great prime minister. The eulogies have been endless and the cult of Farmajo went beyond the usual “Clan Is Everything” support, but, what exactly were the achievements of Farmajo? Somalia today is more or less the same it was before Farmaajo was given the job of Prime Minster. Al Shabab still roam large parts of the country and their defeats to date could be argued to be the work of AMISOM & others rather than any powerful Somali army led by Mr Cheese (so not a point that Farmaajo can claim). The TFG is still as chaotic as it ever were and the parliament is still as crowded as a barley floating refugee ship. Add to that the fact that Farmajo fell out with the Imam (for reasons only known to the great one himself) and has allowed himself to be outmaneuvered by two illiterate (as their opponents claim) men, what then could we say are the achievements of Farmaajo? In my personal opinion, his greatest achievement is in being more active than any of his predecessors and utilising the media to sell and publicise his government’s phantom progress. This though is not an achievement in itself. What made it seem like one is that the man got the sack early enough for the honeymoon period of his rule to seem like one that would have lasted for ever. A case in point is my beloved Imam. I am sure most readers remember when Farole was made president of PL and the million and one announcements that he made as he took over that entity. Now we are told that Farmajo created a corruption commission or that he ensured that some streets were cleaned, well, as I recall, the Imam promised to ban those that drink alcohol or chew khat from working in the PL public sector. In addition, Farmajo’s supporters argue that he improved and accounted for the government’s revenue that used to be misappropriated by previous administrations; this too was an old trick of Farole & Siilaanyo. To be fair to my beloved Imam though, I cannot remember him paying government workers on time or at least boasting about it (something that both Farmajo & Siilaanyo did). Farmajo even had the cheek to copy Siilaanyo’s “Here Is What We Did In Our First 100 Days In Charge” gimmick (makes you wonder if we are two countries after all!). It seems to me that Farmajo’s greatest achievement was in getting the sack in the way he did! Like Siilaanyo, Farole and the Islamic Courts he was a great administrator but a hopeless politician (don’t fret people. All three are a rung above Sheikh Sharif who is neither) for had Farmajo been an experienced politician he would have foreseen the outcome of Sharif(s’) pact and would have prepared for it accordingly rather than being caught unawares like he did. Then again, maybe I am talking utter twaddle and maybe Farmajo did have some great, real and tangible achievements, which is why the women of Mogadishu are in total uproar. You tell me!

^^ When I started this thread Kayse was still an SSC commander, saaxib. SL diid lakin wax macqool uun ku hadal.

Arr Widhwidh maxaa ka socda?

Over 30 Hargeisa-based journalists received training on international law to tackle negative articles about refugees HARGEISA, Somaliland, 20 June (UNHCR) – On a recent visit to Hargeisa, refugees showed the UNHCR Somalia Representative a number of articles in local publications that portrayed them in a negative light, often with incorrect information and a lack of understanding of their plight. UNHCR offered to organise a workshop for local media where the work of UNHCR and basic principles of international law could be explained to journalists to foster a greater understanding of the realities of the daily lives of refugees and asylum seekers in the region. Over 30 journalists from public and private TV, radio, print and internet media houses attended the workshop in Hargeisa, which was organised in conjunction with the Ministries of Information and Interior. Given the instrumental role of the media in shaping public opinion and the perception of the displaced in Somaliland, the workshop underlined the media’s responsibility to ensure that the information it provides to the public is accurate, based on verified facts and impartial. The workshop delivered information on international protection as well as answering key questions including: who is a refugee, who is an asylum seeker, and what constitutes a displaced person, as well as outlining the national legal framework on refugees and asylum seekers in Somaliland. Some participants were surprised to learn the actual number of refugees living in Somaliland. A straw poll at the workshop showed that many believed Somaliland was hosting up to 30,000 refugees. UNHCR told the journalists that approximately 1,750 refugees reside in Somaliland, the vast majority being Ethiopian nationals. Additionally, there are approximately 1,850 asylum seekers in Somaliland – people who have fled other countries and are seeking refugee status. UNHCR stressed the importance of the media conveying the correct figures to the public to avoid inflaming opinion against this vulnerable group of people. The Director General of the Ministry of Information of Somaliland, Faysal Ali Sheik. stressed that “the role of the media is very important for presenting to the Somaliland community the actual situation regarding refugees, asylum seekers and internally displaced people (IDPs) as well as the overall responsibility of the government and the international community". UNHCR Somalia Representative Bruno Geddo said that the workshop was a crucial first step in sensitizing both media and public about the realities of life for persons of concern to UNHCR. “Ignorance breeds hostility, but understanding fosters acceptance,” Geddo said. The refugees who participated – including those drawn from the recently-formed Refugee Affairs Committee – said they were impressed by the workshop and its role as a “very good forum to sensitize the host communities on their rights” and that it gave them hope that understanding of their situation would improve as a result. On World Refugee Day, when UNHCR’s 1 campaign is highlighting the fact that one refugee without hope is too many, the workshop has brought greater understanding of the plight of refugees in Somaliland, a situation replicated all around the world. Stability in Somaliland remains a pull factor for many people fleeing insecurity and lack of livelihood from Ethiopia and South-Central Somalia. In addition to 3,600 refugees and asylum seekers, Somaliland hosts 67,000 internally displaced people. Somalia remains the country generating the highest number of refugees in the world after Afghanistan and Iraq. Currently, more than 700,000 Somali refugees live in other countries in the region including Yemen, Ethiopia and Kenya. by Rose de Jong http://reliefweb.int/node/421021

Abwaan;729415 wrote: lol....The famous sentence. "Maslaxada ummadda ayuu ilaalinayaa" Kuwii ka horreeyeyba, kulligood soo sidaas ma dhihin markii ay xilka ka tageen? Shalay markii uu lahaa waa joogayaana wuxuu lahaa shacabka ayaan u danaynayaa....Toloow markee buu been sheegayey labada wakhti? Ceeb caleek warya. Siyaasi been ma sheego; xawaashkuu badsadaa uun.

^^ It's a rubbish article, saaxib. All it does is make accusations and offer unworkable solutions. What exactly would Somalia achieve if the Kampala Accord were to be disregarded and elections were to take place? Could proper and fair elections take place in such a short space of time and with the sort of Somali politicians that exist today? I don't like the Kampala Accord but I do agree with its main point (more time for the TFG to sort itself). Now everyone that opposes it has a full year to work themselves to the front of the line (or else, the TFG will get another year then another then another). Kampala is good, saaxib, Kampala is good.

^^ Get thee to a nunnery, go. Farewell!

http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/51135-Has-Fumbling-Faroole-Any-Friends-Left?highlight=Fumbling