Coofle;980237 wrote: Saffarz, I had this argument with wadaada on so many occasions and I came to realize health reasons are the only way you can get them to give you attention... .Never mention poverty ...Just the Horrible infant and maternal mortality figures (we are world champions)...improving such conditions as healthcare usually increases the public awareness to the tremendous damage done by unplanned pregnancies, this has been tried first hand in Somaliland. Read about how only Adna adan training midwives has dropped the figures and yet coupled with them the average children a man could have. ..... ragga mashquuliya, iyagaa idin ka jeesane...my advice to feminists. I don't disagree with you on that Coofle (though I don't agree that financial security shouldn't be factored into family planning, that's your interpretation not something dictated by religion), any attempts to make changes will require cultural sensitivity and pragmatism given the social context. From what I can see, many NGOs seem to already be operating that way, for instance the MSF Ethiopia position I mentioned earlier in the thread on advocating continuous breastfeeding because many Somali men were hostile to other forms of family planning.

N.O.R.F;980240 wrote: Now how is all this related to the economic reasons for family planning in Canada with which you based your original argument? I am following. Will scrutinise the stats later. Most of us are first generation immigrants, so population trends and cultural attitudes towards having children travel to the diaspora with us. But if you go back to the first page, I only spoke of "Somali culture," while you were the first to say "back home" and bring Somalia itself into the discussion and so I responded to that. But as I said, you can't fully separate the two at this point, when it comes to my parents' generation at least.

N.O.R.F;980227 wrote: You haven't provided any stats. One minute you're talking about your surburban life in Canada and how other Somalis are less off because they're part of larger families and the next your talking about obstetric fistula in Ethiopia! My arguments are actually quite well structured and relevant to the topic, I'm sorry you can't follow. But sure, here are some figures -- infant mortality rates by country (CIA, World Bank), maternal mortality rates by country (CIA, WHO, UNICEF), obstetric fistula in Somalia (Fistula Foundation, UNFPA Fistula Campaign), women's literacy rates in Somalia (UNESCO). Some key points and excerpts from the links and reports: - under five mortality rate is 225 per 1,000 live births (placing us in the bottom 3 in the world, in some rankings #1) - one in 10 Somali children die before their first birthday and one in 12 women die from pregnancy related causes (bottom 2 in world) - less than 30 per cent of the country has access to safe water - acute malnutrition afflicts 17 per cent of children - 2.12 million Somalis, more than half of whom are children, were in an Acute Food Security Crisis in 2012 - estimated incidence of obstetric fistula per 1000 deliveries is 3-5 - adult literacy rate: 49.7% of men, 25.8% of women

Provide sources that show my stats are inaccurate if you're going to dismiss them. Always amazing to see people fail to make obvious connections and assume there's no relationship because it makes a flawed argument easier to present (ie. high birth rates which is the topic at hand, and the health complications you seem to think are off topic like high infant and maternal mortality rates), lol.

Blackflash;980221 wrote: If you look at the fertility rates of economically prosperous countries, you'll notice that not even a theocratic nations like Saudi Arabia can stop the negative correlation between development and the number of children a woman has. There's something unsettling to me about those who would advocate natalism or birth control to illiterate Somali women . What do you mean by that? Natalism and birth control/family planning are oppositional concepts. That said, you're making family planning sound like some sort of sterilization project, it's simply having the necessary knowledge and agency to make informed decisions about one's reproductive health, like when and how to conceive and when and how to use contraception or other birth control options like breastfeeding to avoid/delay or space out pregnancies.

Thanks for sharing. I'm not the biggest fan of Skip Gates, but his PBS programs are always interesting to watch and I admire what he's done to bring African American history to a wider audience.

N.O.R.F;980219 wrote: Before one can tell others how to live as a family one needs to have lived in his/her own family. Data or not, I find privileged qurbo joogs telling mothers back home how to live their lives distasteful. Who are they to tell mums not to have another kid or to have 4 instead of 6? Why have kids at all? When she could have that nice big house to herself. 3 children or not, somewhere down the line there was a big family that didn't have much. They grazed the lands and tendered to the camel. The more the merrier to do this. If they were to 'plan', for reasons unknown, its likely you wouldn't be here today. But, because of our culture (more so before the wars), large families were the norm. There are large families doing well in the west. I'm talking about statistics and development indicators, and you're giving romanticized images of nomadic and rural poverty. Do you know how many Somali women back home are illiterate because our culture deems it more important for them to be wives and mothers than to be educated? Or that many of these large 'merry' nomadic families deal with chronic malnutrition? Did you know Somalia has one of the highest maternal and infant mortality rates in the world? That our women deal with birth complications related to female circumcision, and that obstetric fistula - a condition where women are literally ripped open by childbirth and can no longer hold their urine and bowel movements - is a massive problem in Somalia, because our women start having children too young for their bodies to deal with pregnancy and childbirth? And I hope I don't have to explain to you what all of this means for Somali society as a whole, and what economists, political scientists and development analysts have shown about the links between women's health and wellbeing for families and society as a whole. Countries like ours continue to fail so long as that's the reality for women and children. You don't need to be a parent to understand what's at stake here.

N.O.R.F;980217 wrote: Why is this topic usually brought up by people who are adament fewer kids is the way to go but have no offspring themselves? Having many kids is part and parcel of our culture. If it wasn't most of us wouldn't be around today typing into keyboards. lol, so you need to be a parent to have an opinion? These are positions that can be easily substantiated with facts, whether they come from health/medicine, education, economics, or other development indicators. The pro-natalism of Somali culture has had negative consequences for the quality of life of women and children in particular, and for the development of Somali society as a whole. And not all of us are from large families... I'm one of three children, born to parents who were in their 30s with careers and multiple degrees. It's why I grew up middle class in the suburbs, while the vast majority of Somali Canadians live below the poverty line and in high crime, low income neighbourhoods. Education, socioeconomic status, birth rate, etc are all interrelated - and those conditions in turn shape the context within which your children will be raised and the opportunities they'll have in life - to pretend that having many children isn't associated with a host of issues (or worse, that it's some sort of secular/marxist/feminist conspiracy to depopulate Somali society a la Wadani) is disingenuous and ignorant. The data is there.

Just bring your own, unless you want to risk pregnancy, STIs, etc from defective condoms or doing something reckless when you can't find any. This post smacks of ajnabi...

lol when I saw the heading for this thread, I thought you were going to post this article I read earlier today and thought about sharing here. I dry heaved through the whole thing (sorry to hijack your thread but it's the same topic really...): This Guy's Eaten Nothing but Raw Meat for Five Years Meet Derek Nance. Five years ago, Derek had some mystery illness that killed his appetite and brought up anything he ate. The doctors suspected it was an allergy thing so Derek changed his diet. First he cut the wheat and dairy, but he still continued losing weight. Getting desperate, he was soon online, chatting to people pushing all manner of lifesaving diets. Derek tried a Mediterranean diet (fish and vegetables) before ditching the fish and eventually becoming a vegan but nothing worked. Finally a guy who’d had similar symptoms recommended a carnivorous version of the Palaeolithic diet. With nothing to lose, Derek gave raw meat a try. That was five years ago and he now goes so far as to brush his teeth with animal fat. For reasons I don’t properly understand I wanted to watch Derek eat a meal and he obliged. I found him in Lexington, Kentucky and we talked about vital organs, rotten meat, and health, which is the main point of this according to Derek. He’s never been healthier. VICE: Hi Derek, can you tell me more about this diet? Whose idea was this? Derek: So it was started by a dentist named Weston Price who in the 1930s studied the health benefits of eating more raw foods including raw meats. He studied the Native Americans and a few of them who lived on a guts and grease diet. He found people in primitive communities were much healthier than we are today and I thought alright, I’ll give it a try. So was there any deliberation? Not really because I’d been sick for such a long time that I was willing to give anything a try. I had a couple of goats in my yard that I was using for milk and you know, I was tired of milking them so I slaughtered them. I ate both of those goats, all raw, and just switched over like that. Did it make you sick? No. Maybe what you get at first is a little diarrhoea but that’s just your digestive system adapting. After the first week I just felt absolutely great and I never went back Derek’s dinner. Chunks of lamb and fat. And you’ve eaten nothing else since? Yeah, for nearly six years. I’m into lamb mainly. It’s just easy to go out to farms, barter over a decent price, slaughter it and throw it in the truck. It’s a lot harder to deal with beef because it’s a lot bigger. Pigs are kind of a no-no because they shoot them full of hormones and raise them on grains, which promote bacterial growth. How do you avoid scurvy? The organ meat of the animal actually contains vitamin C. And the thing about vitamin C is that you need more of it in a high carbohydrate diet, but if you’re eating carnivorously there’s enough in the animal flesh. So I just eat the organ meat and the connective tissue and everything else. Derek’s hit of vitamin C. A jar of sheep organs and clotted blood. What happens if you go to a friend’s house for dinner? If I go to a friend’s house, most people will allow me to bring a little bit of my own food. Same with if I go out for dinner. But don’t you get sick of eating the same thing all the time? No, there’s something that happens during the adaption process. About three weeks in I noticed this real strong blood-like taste in the back of my throat and then all of a sudden I started getting strong cravings for it. The idea of cooked meat no longer appeals. It just tastes burned. And herbs and spices too, I used to season the meat and those just no longer appeal either. Ok, and you eat rotten meat. Why do you eat rotten meat? It’s a pro-biotic. Half of my problem with my digestion was actually just lack of enzymes. My body just doesn’t produce enough enzymes to digest starchy foods. So the pro-biotic bacteria in rotten meat actually help me to digest the food. Derek lets chunks of lamb rot in a jar before he eats them. Better than Yakult. Have you ever explained your diet to a vegetarian? Well my girlfriend is vegetarian. Joanne, you’re a vegetarian? Joanne: Yes, well more omnivore with vegan tendencies. I’ve tried Derek’s diet—we had lamb tenderloins once and they were delicious, but I’m a vegetarian for compassionate reasons. Derek and Joanne. So you guys talk about your difference in opinion? Yeah and I understand his reasoning because for him this is his health. I think I can eat anything and it doesn’t affect me. That’s a big difference between us. And Derek, you’re comfortable personally slaughtering animals? Well if an animal lives in accordance with its nature, I have no problem ethically slaughtering that animal. But if you raise that animal in a pen and when it’s sick just shoot it up with antibiotics, I have real problems with that. It’s not just unfair on the animal; it’s unfair on the people who eat it. After dinner Derek takes me down to his basement to his Jeffrey Dahmer fridge. After butchering a sheep this is where he hangs all the bits as he eats it over a few weeks. Tonight the fridge contains a few legs and a head. “It’s a Shetland sheep, it’s got a very mild, sweet flavour. I crack open the scull and eat the brain. It’s kind of a delicacy so I’ll wait until the weekend to get into it.” What’s the worst thing about this diet? Being an outcast. My family, they think I’ve lost it. They literally think I’m off the deep end insane and I don’t know why. Eating raw meat is just something they can’t accept. My father has a master's in biology and he tells me that if I eat raw meat I’ll get some sort of pathogen. Joanne: Yeah that’s weird. I’m not even allowed to mention Derrick’s diet around them. They say, “that’s wrong! He’ll die” and they just get really emotional about it. Will you ever stop this diet? No, not by choice. If they haul me away, kicking and screaming then maybe. And you’ve recently become a butcher. Can you tell me about that? Well, I was going out to farms for years slaughtering my own animals and one of the guys at these farms needed some help so I offered. Now I’m learning the trade from the ground up and I get lots of scraps to snack on. Before I was an electrician but I’ll do anything. Joanne runs a vegan juice bar so sometimes I’ll help out there. That’s just life.

Wadani;980205 wrote: Family planning is nothing more than misanthropic marxist B.S. Whites are now reeling from their current state of self inflicted racial suicide (birth rates below replacement levels) as a result of wholeheartedly swallowing the nefarious designs on the traditional family by these evil leftists under the guise of 'progressiveness'. Ragow dumarka guursada, sii fiicanna u dhaqda, ciyaal badan oo diintooda, dadkooda iyo dalkoodana anfaca dhala. Please tell me this is satire.

Coofle;980175 wrote: Confusing topics (my life as a man of science and my studies recommend few babies, my spiritual and lust for kids dictate me to have as many progeny as an army) ..... I was relieved when I decided,, ,,"Intii Ilaahay ii qoray uun baan dhali, saw awlaaduba risiqa kama mid aha" ... Family planning is different topic , Religiously and scientifically deemed to be good. Somalis use that very saying to avoid family planning! In fact, many are under the impression that family planning/birth control is haram. I remember discussing this with a friend who works for MSF in kililka 5aad, they've received so many death threats and hostile words from husbands that they no longer discuss BC options with women, and instead advise breastfeeding as a method.

Wadani;980174 wrote: lool, Waan ogahay inaan aniguba iska reer galbeed ahay laakiin dee reer bariga way inaga qurux badanyihiin baan umalaynayaa lol. Reer Hargaysa hadda Oromo ayay u wada eekaadeen, tollow maxaa dadkii ku dhacay lool. lol my mom wondered this outloud when she went to Hargeisa for the first time in 25 years or so last year.

Abbaas;980151 wrote: Safferz, we 're trying to transalte this string, in this case it's a point. English -- >> Comment score below threshold (the limit.) Somali --> Fallada xadkeedii score-ka weey ka hooseeysaa Do you know a proper Somali word/string to replace score-ka is Dhibcaha :confused: Mahadsanid. Ohh I see. Dhibic or foore can both mean score, I think.

YoniZ;980148 wrote: Miyir & Tallaabo. Have you seen the original posts of the guy before the admin edit? If yes, and you still believe someone should be given free pass to insult the religion of SOL's majority members in a way, not Guardian or even Nytimes wouldn't have tolerated. Then, good luck to your free speech mantra. There's a fine line between free speech and hate speech, there are plenty of people here who are critical of religion and Muslims but don't resort to insults and caricatures. Hobbesian_Brute is a true islamophobe and bigot.

Haatu;978712 wrote: How do you say: Score Reccomendation Feature in Somali? Score as in point/goal, or a mark?

What do you guys think of my new doormat?

Tallaabo;980108 wrote: Anything which makes the US troops marauding around the world to pack their bags and return home on budget planes is most welcome Military is unaffected, though their paycheques may be delayed Anything considered an essential service will still be running.

N.O.R.F;980101 wrote: Whats are the details? Is this specifically in relation to Obamacare or is it general budgetary/fiscal? The article I linked to above from the Washington Post (also the New York Times) gives a good explanation, but both -- Congressional Republicans refused to pass the budget without provisions to delay/defund Obamacare, Harry Reid and Obama told them to f*ck off, and government gets shut down because Congress can't reach an agreement. And as far as I know, Obamacare goes into effect anyway, and this shutdown is costing taxpayers $150 million a day.

http://vimeo.com/75834646" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Including NASA! Even the Curiosity rover on Mars is being furloughed, poor guy. The Washington Post explains the shutdown

Wadani;980090 wrote: Actually, having a lot of children is one of our biggest money making schemes lol. Living on social assistance is still living in poverty.

SomaliPhilosopher;980036 wrote: Hobbes you have issues kid. Saffy I am strangely drawn to read 'far from medina'. i recall you being a fan of this djebar. know where can i get a copy online- torrent, pdf?? Sadly I was only ever able to find that book at my university library, I'm not sure it's in print (in English at least) since it's not one of her well known works. Fantasia: An Algeria Cavalcade is my favourite novel ever, but I don't know of any electronic copies. Worth purchasing though

OdaySomali;980071 wrote: Why would anyone in their right mind do that to themselves :eek: they are such hard work. I see some peole with 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 kids like its no big deal. They are such strong people. More importantly, very few people can afford to have more than two or three children, yet that doesn't stop our people from overbreeding anyway and ignoring financial planning with the belief that Allah will provide for their hellspawn. I'm sure this is a contibuting factor to why we're generally one of the poorest immigrant groups in every country we settle in.