She is a native informant, providing the fuel for the flames of xenophobia, racism and suspicion already faced by Somalis and other immigrant groups in Western Europe. I don't think she is an Ayaan Hirsi Ali as the other thread asks, but in the sense that they both operate to legitimize anti-immigrant discourse and European racism (by assuring Europeans that their anxieties over these scary dark foreigners have basis in truth), they are extremely similar.

Originally posted by AfricaOwn: You're backtracking terribly. I really thought you had something for him. It's not backtracking to withdraw from debate with someone who deliberately misrepresents my position to make the same tired, circular arguments. I browse the forums often so I should have expected that before replying to our brother here, but I felt the need to reply to such an absurd comment. And yes, the onus is on Oodweyne, since nothing I have said is contentious, disputed only by those who insist on politically motivated revisionist narratives (as is the case with the individuals in this thread). You're all more than capable of looking into the historical research I am alluding to, but if it helps in narrowing your search, taking a look at some of the work of Lee Cassanelli at UPenn on education may be a good start. Said Samatar, David Laitin and Abdi Samatar have all also written on the subject. UNESCO education reports from the early 1990s would also provide a good overview and some important statistics for education under the Somali Republic. I'm acquainted with doctoral students at education departments at McGill University, York University and University of Toronto's OISE who have also produced relevant research. The information is out there. Let me be clear - I am not in any way trying to attack the achievements being made in the region; as I said earlier, I am proud of the initiative and efforts in reconstruction and all that it signifies for the future. But the education system is not what it was, that is historical fact, and there is no reason to interpret that reality as an attack on Somaliland. Being conscious of this and continuing to emphasize the need for improvement will only work to improve the state of the country as a whole, moreso than those who would rather bury their heads in the sand in favour of the status quo. InshaAllah I will leave it at that, and I would hope that you all understand where I'm coming from.

^ You're awfully confident in your abilities to use language for someone who writes in such impenetrable, awkward prose. I should remind you that you were, in fact, the one to introduce the comparison to the Somali Republic and initially made the baseless claim that education in Somaliland is far and above any education system the region has experienced in the past. The onus of proof is on you my friend, given that you are making a minority allegation which contradicts a large body of academic literature.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: In other words; you can't back it up your silly assertion about the differences of the educational system between the two period. Hence, the reason, you have decided to resort to flimsy argument about how others are not ready to engaged in what you termed as a "intellectually honest dialogue" , indeed. You twist words quite well, and your strawman argument approach is one reason I'd prefer to bow out. You really have not responded to a single point I've actually made, but instead to positions you expect me to take or erroneously assumed my comment entailed. My initial comment was a single sentence supported empirically in response to your rather ahistorical post, and if that is so difficult for you to stomach, my concerns over the level of debate you choose to engage in are warranted. What's this about my gender?

Originally posted by Oodweyne: Finally, Adeer, as I said to you earlier, what you may wish things to have been is one thing; but, "historical reality" in so far as today's Somalilanders (who are yesterday's northerners) are concern is another thing entirely, indeed. A few points of clarification from the last few comments in this thread: - I am female. - I am a historian. - And as mentioned before, I am from Hargeisa (though this should not be relevant, had I been from the South my point still stands). I will leave it at that, I find both you and JB's theorizing quite amusing. There has been much research and data compiled on education in the Somali Republic, including dissertations I have come across; the facts are facts as much as you would prefer to deny them. Your political cosmology and distortion (in this thread and others) is hardly "historical reality," and simply undermines your argument. I generally prefer to stay out of these types of discussions on the forums for that reason; it is exhausting to debate individuals who cannot engage in intellectually honest dialogue.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: ^^Cheap point, indeed, my friend . For you could of easily see that today in Somaliland with fees and all being charged for the higher education system there, but, still, one can say that the level of University students enrolment and the chance that they have to advance their "graduate studies" in UK and other places when they finished their first degrees university education there, can't even be compared (in-terms of it's potentialities) that period of "free education" of the then Somali State, in which you are fond of talking about it in here, indeed. But, then, again, someone who may have tremendously "profited" it from that "lopsided free education" of that time more than others, particularly those who were what is today Somaliland, could be forgiven in saying that was the "golden period" , indeed. Since, him and his ilk could of have been the "beneficiaries" of that genuine unmeritorious system of that time. Now, now. The only cheap point here is your assumption that I am not from the region in question, which forms the premise of your rather lazy argument. Full disclosure: I am from Hargeisa. My parents, like many exceptional students in the Somali Republic, received their graduate degrees at elite institutions overseas. Intellectual honesty is a virtue my friend, even if politically it does little to advance your cause. Argue with facts. And the fact is that the education system of our region and the opportunities available to students (like everywhere else in Somalia at the moment, tragically) is nowhere near what it was 20, 30, 40 years ago, as can be expected from a state's collapse. While efforts like Abaarso Tech are to be applauded and signal a more promising future, we must not forget that this is a private boarding school with limited enrollment, making it inaccessible to most Somalis. What is needed is a public education system accessible to everyone, like that which educated our parents.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: At least if you compare it how it was during the long dark years of the said unlamented existence of the Somali Union and it's political State that was based on Mogadishu of that time, particularly between the years of 1960 - 1991 , indeed. Free and public education nationwide was a tyrannical concept, indeed.