Originally posted by Red Sea: Xiinfaniin, Good try to make everyone believe that the reason the overwhelming majority of Somalilanders feel they should secede is due to Ethiopia's influence. That is just pure rubish. Mohamoud Ahmed Silaanyo is prominent Somaliland politician, he has said that he is against Ethiopia' invasion in S.Somalia. And he has great chance of being elected. it's one thing to say that Somaliland current regime is in love with Addis, but to put the whole of Somaliland with its people and everything in Ethiopia agenda as I see it just a way of you to try to approach your opposition to SL seccesion case. Nice try though either way. Somaliland can change as far its relations with Ethiopia with better leader or someone like Siilaanyo or even Gaboose, however don't miss SL's case as Ethiopia's. Somaliland existance has only been a blessing for many somalis whether they are landers or those who have found a home within somaliland in the wake of the violence in Southern Somalia. We might need a regime change in S/land though. Siilaanyo is an old soul indeed and I appreciate the fact that he at least tried to speak out against what transpired in Xamar. But as noble sentiment as his clearly was, still it was a stillborn one adeer, and I blame Ethiopia for it! How else would you explain for Siilanyo to reproach Ethiopia on a one hand, and fly and visit the darn place among Somaliland delegation on the hand meeting of course the same policy makers who devised the atrocities in Xamar! Now that needs a lot of explaining, does it not yaa redka? You are blaming the whole think on Riyaale, implying that him (and his admin of course) is the only culprit as far as Somaliland being in cahoots with Ethiopia. I do however think that the relationship between Ethiopia and Somaliland is neither unique in its nature nor solely reliant upon specific individuals or politicians. In fact, it’s not that much different than the one Ethiopia has Puntland or with Ina Yey for that matter. The end goal is consistent and exactly the same: to divide Somalis! Simple! Perhaps that’s what irritates you, yaa redka that I call your little enclave for what it’s, another Ethiopian puppet, and in the big scheme of things, and in the context of the Horn region it’s almost at par with Puntland and TFG. The brutality you see in Xamar does not happen in vacuum. It has enablers. The enablers, my good brother, are the current Somali leaders, whose political thinking and attitude has been somehow, and in a bizarre way, engineered to think by the last seventeen years, quite narrowly, along regional levels. Somalilanders are victims of their current leaders---just like Puntlanders are. I can’t possibly blame them for what has transpired in those areas. I firmly believe if one polls today the political pulses of just say Boosaaso or Burco the majority would both express their rejection of Ethiopia’s interferences and at the same time register their longing for the return of Somali republic in a unified fashion! Again don’t be fooled by the promoters of this false political ideology, adeer! Dadku way heshiin haddii alle idmo. Somaliduna waaba iska dad yar wayna midoobi idin alle e yaan lagu wareerin saaxiib! Anigana caawa iga qor intan: inta soomalidu ay qoloba gobolkeeda rabto inay difaacatto, amni ma jirayyo, markayse midoobaan cadowgooda way iska celin wayna guulaysan. You cant expect reer Muqdishu to take on the enemy that’s Ethiopia and defeat it while you only cheer from a distance saaxiib! How unfair!!! Allow ma iri!

Me is harmless adeer, he may not know how to get somalia back but he sure wants it back. Oodweyne however is a different animal, and a very dangerous one at that ! ps--Waryee Oodweyne adeer waxba ha qorin, waxaad soo wado waan iska ogahayye...

^^OK. I get no benefit from bashing Somaliland adeer. This is what is at stake here in my oponion: Ethiopia, realizing how weak somalia has gotten, is doing every thing it can to deepen our divisions. It talks to every group with a language they can undertand and appriciate its meaning. Generally it uses the clan language to convince each group that its actions and current political stances on somali issues are justified. In somaliland,it uses the painful memories of Barre regime.In Puntland, it uses the civil memories and Gen. Aydid.In the south, it uses American money and the terrorism card to do what they do. Now i dont know what you believe in person, but your writings depict a cyber character who decidedly fallen into one of Ethiopia's traps. As long you are formulating your arguement along the lines of somaliland vs. somalia, you are aiding Ethiopia. Somaliland vs. Puntland is a reality and had you used that language i wouldn't reproach you for it as much saaxiib! Dont let Ethiopia put us into those little columns for her own benefit! Riyale, Cadde, and the warlords in Xamar are all from the same genre...you and i however are victims of the policies of these fools...

A long post with little substance; Oodweyne’s posts are akin to the proverbial mighty labor that at the end produced a mere mouse ! Me, offer the man some clothes adeer instead of parading him around naked! In other words dont ask him open-ended questions! Cakku waxaan is garanayn...

^^ Pulling the Laascaano card on me, your strogest card thus far! Adeer, you are a frozen genius in the sense that you have wasted both your education and efforts to a wrong cause that will ultimately lead to bloodshed in own neighborhood .

Originally posted by Red Sea: Xiin faniin, Somalia is lacking stability today and its people are suffering as a result of foreign occupation. The best hope for them somalis in the south to have reliable body of governance will be coming from Islamic based ruling party like the UIC but more inclusive. If that so happens, everything will work out between them and Somaliland. As Allah plants trust in the hearts of poeple if a honest, truthful individual is whom you are dealing with. However to have none of the above and yet trying to appeal to anyone about fantasy and far fetched idealogy is just mere waste of time and a waste of your time as well. The best way Somalia and Somaliland can deal is through dailogue which is the solution to almost all problems, but that can't be done unless offcourse you have the right people in place in Southern Somalia in particular. Mohamed Siyad barre has perished right now. I am not grieving anything in the past, it stands as a symbol of what can happen when naturally corrupt individuals are trusted, and thus Somalilanders everywhere have lost trust in Southern Somalia. The only way to regain that is mentioned above. Red, I am sure you are a good man. I must tell you though that thinking of yours is the problem and the challenge before us as we struggle to survive as a nation. Why you think Somaliland and Somalia terms is beyond me. You are confusing yourself when you blame the crimes of a fallen tyrant on the people of the south, forgetting of course that some segments of the southern populace did indeed tasted the wrath of the said tyrant before your neck of the wood even noticed his plans much less rise up against it. Ethiopia is the enemy adeer, and by thinking the way you have been thus far thinking, you are unwittingly providing her the means to maintain its influence and hold Somalia down. Allow dadka wax tus.

^That’s yet another version Gediidow!

Originally posted by Castro: quote: Originally posted by xiinfaniin: 1- Tell us what you think would be a realistic approach to end the current mayhem in Somalia. A combination of fighting the occupier and engaging him politically . The enemy sooner or later loses his ambition and drive given enough opposition, however "hit and run" it may be. Negotiations are best made from a position of strength. Capitulating to the enemy then coming to the negotiation table is an exercise in futility yaa Xiin. The occupier and his puppet regime understand, and are feeling the effects of, the resistance's determination. You can see now that the days of "we will not negotiate with terrorists" are quickly coming to an end. And that is not because Ethiopia is getting softer but because the resistance is trying its endurance. 2-Articulate a strategy to remove Ethiopia from all Somali soil, not only from Bakara market! The bigger task is making Somalis, of all clans, share a common vision. Even then, it will not be easy to lift Abyssinia's stranglehold on Somalis. Surely, negotiations alone will not work as no one, Ethiopia included, gives up land if they feel there are little repercussions to be suffered. Nimaan warankaagu gelin weedhaa ma gasho , as our ancestors used to say. A combination of fighting the occupier and engaging him politically is a good approach I must admit. But given both the theatre (Mogadishu) and the consequence (more Somalis out, and more Ethiopian soldiers in) of muqaama’s recent fighting I am not sure if this strategy has been adopted effectively! Particularly, the political track of this strategy has either been lacking or utterly slow moving. Forgive me, but I am getting the empression of you suggesting Muqaawamah’s political engagement with the tfg should be contingent upon its military success on the ground. That is to say, if the muqaawaamah is losing both ground and men, then it’s disadvantageous for it to engage in peace talks. I would rather have the national considerations drive resistances engagements with the tfg, and not by how’s performing on the ground militarily. For the sooner some compromised settlement is reached between Somali groups the better Somalis can devise ways to deal with Ethiopia. You must understand that Ethiopia is there because of our lack of political cohesion. It has learnt throughout the civil war years to exploit and exacerbate any division we got. Make not mistake adeer Somalis must fight against Ethiopia. But any fight against the enemy must take into consideration enemy’s long-term plans. I believe what happened in Mogadishu is beneficial to Ethiopia. More Somalis are abandoning their homes and properties. Eventually considerable numbers of those left Xamar will either end up in Kenyan refugee camps or with all probability leave the continent! So there is urgency from my part to minimize this mass exodus, and engage the enemy in other areas. It gave me hope when I heard the news that Ethiopian army was confronted and engaged in and around the borders crossings. All in all, yours are great points! Where's Farax and Che? tuuji maskaxdiinna waryaaya !

^^Easy with the swagger adeer for you attempted to just do that before and failed miserably! What makes you think redoing it now will buy you more converts ? Truth is that secessionism was at best instantaneously decided by the SNM after the fall of Barre or at worst was adopted as a result of outside encouragement that had a larger eng goal in mind than merely appeasing the brief anger of Northern masses then. On both counts, it did not come about as a result of careful deliberations in which both national and regional considerations were weighed in…. Take it from me yaa C

^^Look at your action items, scroll one page up yaa Faarax !

^^Well if common sense is the Bashification che spoke about then you should all embrace it! But wait a minute! In the same breath you said Bashism equals surrender, did you not yaa Farax? Confusion xaal qaado! [edit]: Action items for Faarax and Che ================================ 1- Tell us what you think would be a realistic approach to end the current mayhem in Somalia. 2-Articulate a strategy to remove Ethiopia from all Somali soil, not only from Bakara market!

Redka, that is a freedom from a tyrant who is 6-feet under today soo maaha?

Wiilka ma bustaa madaxa ugu xiran?

Sidii aan rabnaybaa, Suurtoobi waydaye, Redow, hadda sidii aad rabteen ma hesheen?

lol@Baashified. Nothing changed saaxiib! Common sense!

Faarax, This is a good development and I hope it materializes. My position as of late has been that opposition groups should accept and engage in any efforts of peace talks as long the venue is appropriate! What’s happening in Somalia is beyond catastrophe! Those whose motives are to see stable Somalia must think and strategize in terms of how to defeat Ethiopia, and not how to react to the failed policies of former warlords! This is not the time to thoughtlessly fall right into enemy’s well-orchestrated scheme and participate and aid them in causing the mass exodus we see from Mogadishu! I am really relieved to see that alternative strategies are being adopted in engaging Ethiopia and confronting it at its most vulnerable moments, when its army crosses the border area (Matabaab, and around the qabno Mountains), and not in the Bakara market, and populated cities within the capital. In there you lose twice! Egypt is not among Somalia’s enemies! Ethiopia is the enemy. True that Egypt abandoned us in [our]hour of need, but that’s neither here nor there for we need her interference now!

Masar oo casuntey mucaradka By Nov 28, 2007 - 4:55:28 PM Dowlada Masar ayaa soo dhoweysay hadal dhowaan ka soo baxey Ra'isal Wasaraha cusub kaas 'Nuur Cade" oo sheegayey in la kulamyo mucaaradka dowlada. Qoraal ka soo baxey Wasaarada Arrimaha Dibada Masar oo loo qaybiyey saxafda ayaa xusayey in in Ra'isal Wasaaraha cusub u rajeynayaan in uu ku guuleysto howsha hortaala taas oo ay ku sheegeen mid culus. Hadalka ka soo baxey Wasaarada Arrimaha dibbada Masar ayaa ku soo beegmey xilli la filayo in booqasho ku yimaadaan Qahira wafti ka socda Isbaheysiga la magac baxey dib u xoreynta Somalia ee fadhigiisu yahay magaalada Asmara. Warar aan la xaqiijin ayaa xusaya in dowlada Masar wadankeda ku martiqaadey Sheekh Shariif iyada oo la filayo in ay ka codsadaan dhexdhexaadinta labada dhinac. Dowlada Masar ayaa kamid ah wadamada diidan faraglinta dowlada Ethiopia ku sameysay Somalia basle aan soo shaac bixin. http://www.garoweonline.com

Wrong question!

Conspiracy theories don’t normally appeal to me! But I have insuppressible feeling to believe in this one…it’s true that for whatever the eng goal may be the division between Somalis is craftily maintained by external actors!

^^ Seriously inaad i waraysattaan baa fiicnaan lahayd qish baan idin siin lahaa! the basics of ina rag: 1-cunto macaan iyo guri carfoon... intaa hadduu helo asuu caqli leeyahay rabbaayad buu noqonayyaa sidaydoo kale...siddii chicken buu maqrib soo xaroonayyaa, weligiis meel kaa aadi mayyo wuu iska kaa ag joogayyaa! cid kale ha weydiininnaa adinku labadaa ugu dedaalaa. Bishaaro gabdhaha ingiriiska ku hadla u fasir awoowe in ilaahay kheyr fara badan kusiiyo si xunna ha u tarjumin!

Oodweyne’s army must get ready for his our of need is quickly approaching…

^^Waraa ma istaqaaniin tuujiska ninyahow! Ani 4 beri aan dacwa ahaa ilaa hadda odoyaashiis aan raadinooyaa saaxiib!

Ilmaha ka seexi maalmahan fasaxa ah! hadduu sidaydoo kale hurdada jecelyahay ciyaalkaa meelahaa u kexee oo soo ciyaarsii ha iska seexdee odoguye... ps..are you celebrating the feast of that brutally decapitated bird, yaa umu z?

Originally posted by Castro: The last part I agree with, partially. Though it could be argued that Afweyne's sub clan, a small minority even within its clan, "decisively" dominated all other clans. Minority ruling over the majority. On ethnicity, it depends upon whom you ask. Many Somalis consider their clan to be ethnically different (superior?) to other clans. Whether claiming ancestry to the Prophet (pbuh) or the Portuguese, ethnicity, my friend, is in the eye of the beholder. Both countries are religiously and racially homogeneous. I believe the ethnicity argument is a creation of colonizers (of any era) and one that has wreaked much havoc in many parts of the world. The conquered are first divided into two or more groups then each group is randomly assigned a superiority index. The colonizer then sits back and watches centuries of bloodshed between them. You do have some good points there, Castro. Divide and rule is the oldest trick in the colonial books. But dictator Barre did not derive his power from his sub clan adeer. And although his sub clan admittedly showed on in the highest managerial levels of the organs of the state, they were not considered entrenched elites for Somalis never had anything of that sort! It was Barre who used supposedly legitimate state machinations and its monopoly of violence to subdue and unjustly silence his opponents, and not the design of his sub clan per se, I believe! Granted that his sub clan helped him and cheered on for him as one of their own but again many others were equally guilty of that crime and happily raised their clinched fist for Barre's regime… The animosity and hatred between Somalis is exceedingly exaggerated! Most grievances I can think of are political in nature! Furhter more, the origins of Somali clans never got factored in Somalia’s political arithmetic. I really do believe this clan majesty thing some speak to hardly leave kitchen tables or transcend beyond Starbucks fadhi-ku-dirirs! To me, it’s just piece of our historical narrative, and as outlandish as it may sound I prefer it to the western anthropologist’s version of our origin and how we come about and progressed as people! In the final analysis, the division between Somalis is maintained by external actors and exacerbated by the ignorant policies of the sole super power of our time! What’s preventing peace from our lands is not only our ignorance and lack of understanding of each other, rather, and I firmly believe this, it’s the Ethiopian resolve to finish off its archenemy while its weak and down. Whether we rise above our differences and accept this historic, and difficult challenge of resurrecting our state whilst others are demolishing it remains to be seen. Even if it’s for Allah’s divine pen that the Somali race expire, we shall in no way perish alone…

Castro, I don’t think there is a parallel between what happened in Rwanda and what happened in Somalia. The Rwanda tragedy had an ethnic dimension to it! In both Political and cultural terms, the two ethnic groups that violently killed each other were no equals! Ours is fundamentally different. By any standard, Somali clans were/are equals, and no one single clan among them dominated/dominate over the other as decisively as the Tutsi did over the Hutu.