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Xaaji Xunjuf

Somaliland president Ahmed Siilaanyo departs for Britain+PICS

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xiinfaniin;916145 wrote:

 

Disappointment awaits for those expecting Somalia to be broken up to satisfy what is essentially a political grievance in the North.

 

I agree.

 

Walaahi odeyga Silaanyo dhib weyn baa soo foodheysa: How in the world is he going to deliver, to people his government has been effectively brainwashing for the last 20 years, that the west will never recognize them? How is he to inform them that their secessionist ambitions have been suddenly and irrevocably been brought to an end?

 

I just hope we find in him a capable politician, with the adeptness at inducing desirable responses in the young ones his government has been lying to all these years.

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Oodweyne   

^^^Tillamook,

 

Do not worry about President Silanyo, since, if ever he entertain any idea of backing off the concept of Somaliland's independence (which I very much doubt for his own sake), then, he shall have far bigger problem than that of the then English king - Charles the First - who lost his head when he was beheaded by his parliament back in 16th century. Particularly, since he was, shall we say, at odds of the "Democratic will" of the people as expressed by their parliament of the day.

 

So, all in all, I see that Somaliland's detractors have yet to get clued up of what awaits those who thinks Somaliland is basically a political agenda of a few elites.

 

As for the notion of being "brainwashed" and whatnot, one can say that is the cheap line we have been hearing from Somalia ever since 1991. And just because it makes a seductive appeal to your emotions, doesn't make it so, in so far as Somaliland's electorate are concern.

 

But, if that notion of thinking that others are brain-washed floats your boat, then, who am I to begrudge a man his moment of levity... :D

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^

Oodka, someone earlier called you an ideologue. But I would add that you're, in fact, a radical ideologue like Godane of a failed philosophy, and like him your days are numbered.

 

Oodeyne, sir, he who pays the piper calls the tune. Silaanyo, in as much as he might not like to disappoint his deluded base, has no option. Unfortunately for him, the west do not care for the split up of Somalia and since they pay the funds that run Silaanyo's government they will direct him to do their bidding, whichever way they so choose. And it's plain to see that they have chosen in this point in time to respect the unity and territorial integrity of Somalia.

 

I am NOT naive, neither should you be: If the West believed Somaliland's independence was in their interest, which is ultimately all they care about, then I'm sure bahashu waa hore bey duuli laheyd:D

 

You keep talking about Independence, yet you're too blind to see the only thing in between you and your coveted goal is your dependence, addiction and reliance on western financial aid. Be bold, and seek alternative sources of revenue to run your government! For as long as you remain pitiable supplicants to western donors, they will always retain the right to set the political agenda in Hargaysa.

 

If I were you, I'd work hard towards establishing economic independence from western coffers, and thus cause a change in the Wests' perceptions regarding your ambitions. No need for unnecessary hostility and animosity against your fellow Somalis. It's not as though they have a say in your "Democratic will" after all :D

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lol@ people who think that the brits are the engine behind Somaliland , the UK aid is mostly through NGO not fully bilateral and that it self is minimum. Somaliland pays its own bills Somaliland is not Somalia where its fully dependent on the west for survival. Somaliland tax revenues port taxes and overall import and export tax and the taxation of SL corporations is where the hard currency is coming from and not from London or Washington. But the Brits helped train some of the police officers of Somaliland. The thing is Somaliland is build on the strength of Somalilanders , Also the brits never said that they want Somaliland and Somalia to be one county they never ever said that. The repeatedly said that the case of union or independence is up for the Somaliland and Somalia people to decide. Only if you tell me they changed their stance you have bring evidence?. Somaliland is here to stay for centuries to come even when the earth eats our flesh and we are long gone.

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Oodweyne   

Tillamook,.. :D

 

Temper, dear lad, and name-calling do not make an argument. And that is free advise, just in case, you need it a bit of help of debating with others. As for your larger point that was buried some where in your vitriol, one can say that, Somalia may be a test-case of being ward of the international community (IC), and therefore, ever since 1991, what the international community decides always was what passes for the politics of the place.

 

But, in Somaliland, there was a time (not long ago) that, even UN had nothing to do with the place other than paying a flying visit to the place every other month. And, still, we have managed to prosper and build peace (from the ground up) and do all of it with our own wits.

 

What that means is the basic developmental aid given to Somaliland was always there as a "bait" (and both Mr. M. I. Egal and Mr. Rayale understood it that way) and therefore fortunately for us, the previous governments did not tried to be "clever-by-half" sort of administration along the lines of thinking that one can swallow that bait and not be on the hook for those who dangled that bait for you in the first place, as the current government seemed to have thought so.

 

So, in essence, the whole of the IC developmental aid is such red-herrings if one understand how this game is played and how not to give the "impression" that your "principles" are - shall we say - amenable to others entreaties. This is the charge the current government is seriously involved with in here. And, therefore, once one gets rid off that "temptation" (in the form of changing the current policy of the government by root-and-branch) then, you are no worse off than many other non-recognized states around the world.

 

Subsequently, I can categorically say to you that, it doesn't follow to say in here, that the piper call the tunes (or words to that effect); since, whether to trouble the piper for his pennies in the first place is something that you have a free choice to do so or not. And, in that context, it's failure of this government in thinking that they can have their cake and eating it at the same time in so far as IC is concern, namely they can take their money without them being "obligated" to do the bidding of those who gave you the money in the first place.

 

Hence, the job of all genuine Somalilanders is to make sure this government do not give away the store while they thinking that they can hoodwink the IC with a cheap line of talking both sides of their mouth. This is what many patriotic Somalilanders in London at least are trying to do now. And I believe we will succeed in stopping this government willfully walking in to a trap brought about by their greed and lust of money.

 

And, remember the folks back home, have nothing but a contempt for any politicians (or even a government) who decided to throw the towel where Somaliland is concern. Consequently, our effort is to bring before the public the "deleterious" and the cumulative effect our foreign policy in which the route this government is on is likely to lead to, if there is no clean break from this "ill-fated dalliance" with the current diplomatic agenda. Particularly the slated talks with Somalia, till at least, the clarity of what the talks ought to be about is brought forward, indeed.

 

All in all, unlike you, I still believe Somaliland has all the cards that matters to her destiny on her hands. Hence it is pity, that current government doesn't seemed to be acting from a position that is equal to the potential of her position (both militarily and politically). And that is why we are working to "nutch" her to the right direction, so that, in the nick of time, we can show her the errors of her ways before much grave misjudgment occurs.

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Xaaji Xunjuf;916158 wrote:
.... Also the brits never said that they want Somaliland and Somalia to be one country they never ever said that.

You are 100% correct Senor Xaaji: The Brits never said that, and that's because the Brits do not recognize Somaliland as an independent country. Now, enough with all these trite platitudes!

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NGONGE   

Xaaji Xunjuf;916008 wrote:
Not going to happen
, if Siilaanyo and his goverment agree to attend they will lose all credibility with in the SL public, unless the Brits come with alternative for Somaliland and Somalia. The conference doesn't even concern Somaliland because the agenda is 95% about Somalia. And Somaliland and Somalia will not hold their talks in London at the conference. We will shortly know.

That's what some people said about the London Conference last year. Yet Somaliland did attend and the conditions for its attendance were put in place to allow it to distance itself from the rest of Somalia. Furthermore, it managed to get a deal on "talks" between it and Somalia. If they do attend this upcoming conference, I expect it to fall into similar lines and the issue about the talks to be clarified further to appease the naysayers in SL.

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This elder generation of Somali's are a complete joke. They despised the deceased dictator Siyad Barre, yet all of them are carbon copies of his style. The Somalia idea of protocol once again is a joke. The way a leader stands on a podium looking the fool, the entire government arrives to greet them at the airport -- this could be Hargeisa, Garowe or Mogadishu, yet the story is always the same.

 

Embarrassing.

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Oodweyne   

Ngonge,

 

I see, saaxiib, you are still flogging that discredited line about how the talks between Somalia and Somaliland is to the good for Somaliland. And even without a pause on your part, you still are of the opinion that says what "deal" Somaliland got from that talks of last year (known as a "London's communique") is something to which to write home about it.

 

Now this being the gist of your argument, let me say that hearing this sort of argument from any other person, I would indeed suspect that person not to have got a faintest of a clue to which to begin in arguing this sort of thing, and therefore they could be forgiven in loosing the trees for the woods in here. But, somehow I didn't expect you to be so - shall we say - not any the wiser as to how that talks far from them being a greater good thing for Somaliland, has in effect "compromised" and clouded our position vis-a-vis that of Somalia.

 

For they have confused friends and foe alike, as to what our ultimate goal is going forward as well as how far we are prepare to walk for it. And remember, in the international parlance and the diplomacy they give rise to, "deeds" speak louder than any "pro-forma of a verbal slogan" you may utter to the air-waves.

 

Hence, speaking ever more vigorously about how you are determine to hold on to your independence as you enter into a negotiation room is an argument begging to be discounted as a serious proposition, if, everyone knows, the other side whom you are negotiating has a completely opposite argument of what you are on about. And that would be ever more so, when there is no "identifiable third party" to which matters of "reference" for such talks could be return to for arbitration, in the event such preposterous talks failing, as they are bound to do so.

 

But, I guess you already know that you and I do not see this thing on the same eyes we used see on so many other issues concerning Somaliland. Which is shame, since to loose a friend for a "difficult judgement call" is one thing. But to loose a friend for a dishearteningly easy to understand argument (or an easy call to make) is doubly tragedy wrapped in shame, indeed.. :D

 

Regards,

Oodweyne.

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^^What is your objection to Somalis talking to each other?

A) Because there is no identifiable neutral third party

B) You don't trust or think the other side is worthy of been talked to yet

C) You don't have confidence in team Silaanyo

D) You think total secession is unattainable thru talks with other Somalis

E) All or combinations of the above

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NGONGE   

Guru,

 

Are you free now? I think that phone call is long overdue. Plus, I need to talk some sense into you warya. :D

 

As for what you say there; well, there really nothing much I could say about your worries and unease (for that's all it is).

 

The bottom line here is that at no stage did SL declare, announce or even hint at a wish to rejoin Somalia. The SL government has been clear that it is engaging in the talks to engineer a civil option of parting the ways with Somalia. However, since these are talks to clarify the relationship and since the "other side" still have hope of bringing SL back to the fold, it should come as no surprise to you that some Somalis will talk about the end of SL as an independent nation.

 

They will talk about working together to fight terror and piracy. They will talk about helping each other in certain areas and they will talk about sharing lessons in democratic processes and what not. But when it comes to Somalia being one nation, the SL delegation will shrug and refer the Somalis to the demand that you, I and every Somalilander had for the past twenty one years.

 

Meesho maqaaxi maaha, saaxib. It's not the Imam's silly tantrums about being Somali one day and wanting to breakaway the next. SL professes to be an independent, democratic and organised nation. It claims to be ahead of Somalia when it comes to political maturity and practice. Therefore, it has to act the part and show that it is willing to do anything and everything when it comes to working together. It needs to openly display its flexibility and wisdom. It needs to appease all observers by proving to them that this quest for independence is not born out of the whim of a few fickle characters and that there is no going back on SL's secession.

 

You really need to stop panicking every time Somalia gets something positive going its way. You also have to remember that this is a nation being brought back from the dead and that only such positive actions will help it sustain itself on the road to recovery. But, none of that has much to do with the TALKS between the two sides nor does it change the SL stance. Only you and I can do that.

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Oodweyne   

Ngonge,... :D :D,

 

I really see you are trying to tell the fairy-tales to end all children's seductive tales in here, my friend.. :D Hence, it's pity that you are not willing to face up to the reality of what those who are pushing us to talk to Somalia have "understood" us to be on about. In the sense, that to us, this talk may be a civil kind that we shall part company with Somalia. But, as for the IC, their clear intend is for us to "settle" for something less than that the whole loaf (if you get my meaning).

 

And therefore, their decided hope is for us to get tired after few years of having a fruitless talks with Somalia and then settle for something less than what we were demanding at the beginning of these talks. And that is why they have openly decline to be an "arbiter" of the talks in a legal sense, for they think that time will bring us to their prefer way-out for us.

 

Of course, we do not believe no such thing for ourselves, but, why get on a train that you have no desire to go where it has been "penciled" to go to by it's station master, since, you already know, you are not likely to steer the direction of the train in the first place.

 

However, since, we can't settle this argument, I think we should end in here and see what time brings. For I believe that you and those who thinks this way are deliberately playing a high-risk game in here, in which to put it bluntly we can ill-afford to do so, indeed.

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