Where did Da'wah(the call to) Salafiyah Originate?

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

sahal Im starting to like you lol...Inshallah akhee...however im tied up with a post im writing for Nur...So inshallah u will be patient with me as well.

[AYOUB]

Salafi if you are struggling with this thread I don't see the point of posting 5 posts about Salafis in another.

[Salafi_Online]

^^^ what are you talking about....

[Salafi_Online]

Bismilillah Alhamdulillah, wa Salatu wa Salamu Cala Rasulillah, Wa Cala Calihi Wa Saxbihi wa Man Tabica Huda.

 

Akhil Karim, Nur, Baarakallahu feekum for your patience, inshallah I’ve tried to make this quick and to the point, I’m afraid if I composed a lengthy response, it will not broadcast the desire results.

 

I must say you and I have much in common brother Nur. I, likewise, hold a special place for Ibn taymiyah and Ibnul Qayyim…. The foremost books I was exposed to was “Aqeeda Wasatiya†Ever studied this book Ya Akh fil Lah? Marvellous book…. I have memorized much of it…Walilhamd…Then By the Will of Allah Jala Wala I was exposed to the book of Ibnul Qayyin,â€Talbis Iblis†A must have for those who Yearn for pure Ilm. These two Mashaykh who have earned the title Mashaykhul-Islam, have guided me from ignorance to light, and All Praises belongs to Allah….

 

Tayyib with this said lets proceed

 

Nur says:

And anyone who refused being Salafi, was against the message of the Messengers, rejection of te messengers message being Kufr.

Ya Akh, Salafiyah is a manhaj…. It is Ahlul Sunnah waJamaca ….. For instance the Shia are not from Ahlul Sunnah wa Jamaca, But we do not make takfir of all them …. Similarly this is the case for those who oppose the manhaj of the Salaf, takfir would depend on the level of innovations. For example some and not All Shi’a allege that The 12 Imams can perceive the Unseen (Ghayb) …and among them are those who call to Ali alongside Allah….Their stage of innovation has reaches the level of Shirk and kufr. However there are those who refrain from such vile speech, their innovation does not reach the level of shirk or Kufr, but rather their innovation buys them a one way ticket to the Fire, No matter how much good deeds they perform, until they free themselves from these innovations. They will remain there as long as Allah wills and eventually will be taken out, For indeed All innovations is misguidance and All misguidance is in the fire (hadith Sahih Muslim).

 

In Short Salafiyah is Ahlul sunnah AlJamaca, But who are the Jamaca? The Jamaca are the salaf! and we do not make takfir of the one who opposes ASJ due to innovation unless its reaches the level of Shirk and kufr.

 

 

Muhammad just being a follower of Salafiyah movement?

It is incorrect to label the salafi manhaj as a movement; we must refrain from such speech. Is Ahlul Sunnah waJamaca a Movement? Secure your sights on what our Beloved Shaykh Ibn Taymiya has to say about the manhaj of the Salaf?

 

lbn Taymiyyah (d.728H) - rahimahullaah - said: "There is no criticism for the one who proclaims the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf, who attaches himself to it and refers to it. Rather, it is obligatory to accept that from him by unanimous agreement (Ittifaaq) because the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf is nothing but the Truth (Haqq)." [Majmoo al-Fataawaa 4:149]

 

Thus it is evident that the Madhab of the Salaf is the Truth, and the truth can not be labelled as a movement….therefore I Salafi_Online Proclaim and refer to the madhab of the salaf. And I also attach myself to them.

 

If you are infatuation with the works of Ibn Taymiyah and Ibnul Qayyim as I am, then I’m sure you’re acquainted with Imam Adh Dahabi! For those who do not know him, he is the student of Ibn Taymiyah, and was with Ibnul Qayyim and Ibn Kathir….This is what he says:

 

Imam ath-Thahabi said: "It is authentically related from ad-Daraqutni (a scholar from approximately 1,000 years ago) that he said: There is nothing more despised by me than 'ilmul-kalaam (innovated speech and rhetoric). I (adh-Thahabee) say: The man never entered into ’ilmul-kalaam, nor did he enter into argumentation (i.e. philosophy), he did not delve into that. Rather, he was Salafee "Siyar A'laamun-Nubalaa' (16/457) of Ath-Thahabi

 

He says “he was Salafi†This erudite Scholar follows the footsteps of his Mentor. (ibn Taymiyah) Why? Because proclaiming, attaching and refer to the salaf, is wajib(obligatory) and when one does that, then he is a Salafi! period! No Reasonable person will doubt such logic. For example if I’m born in Somalia, then I’m a Somali, or Canada, Kanadi (Canadian), Ameriki(American) Saudi… ect ect, Meaning I have some sort of attachment to it.

 

The Scholars of our times, Have also spoken about this issue:

 

Allaamah, ‘Abdul-‘Azeez Ibn Baz

 

– the [former] mufti of Saudi Arabia was asked: What do you say about the one who calls himself ‘ Salafi’ or ‘Athari’ ? Is this is a tazkiyah (purification) of his own self? So he replied – may Allaah have mercy upon him – "When he is being truthful [in his claim] that he is Salafi or Athari then there is not harm in that, [this is] similar to what the Salaf used to say, ‘So and so is a Salafi’, ‘So and so is Athari’ . This is a tazkiyah (commendation) which is necessary, a tazkiyah that is obligatory." (Cassette: Haqq ul-Muslim 16/1/1413 Ta’if)

 

A Tazkiyah that is obligatory, doesn’t this sound similar to what ibn Taymiyah said.

It is evident that the Salaf, use to say so and so is a salafi, so and so is a salafi, what more prove would you like?

 

There are those who minimize the status of the contemporary scholars, they call them government Scholars, Walcayadubillah, or modern meaning they lack Ilm! Likes of albani, Uthaymin, fawzan, Muqbil, Anjami, Mu’sin Al’Abbaad ect

 

The messenger of Allah said:

 

from Aboo Hurairah – as best I know from Allaah’s Messenger, sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam, who said, "Allaah will raise for this Ummah at the head of every hundred years, he who will revive its religion for it." ’Awnul-Ma’bood (11/385-396) of al-Azeemabaadee.

 

Need a name change, because we want to be different?

Being different from those who oppose the manhaj of the Salaf is wajib(obligatory). Allah’s messenger commanded that believers oppose the Kufar in dress and actions, but what about Ahlul Bid’ah? we firmly believe that that Ahlul Bi’dah are the callers to the fire,

 

It was said to Imâm al-Awzâ’î (d.157H) - rahimahullâh: A person says, ‘I sit with Ahlus-Sunnah and I sit with the innovators.’ So al-Awzâ’î said: “This person desires to fluctuate between the truth and falsehood.†[54]

 

Commenting upon this saying, Ibn Battah said: “Al-Awzâ’î has indeed spoken the truth. And I say: Indeed this person does not know the truth from falsehood, nor faith from disbelief.â€:

 

 

Hudhayfah - radiallâhu ’anhu - said:

The people used to ask the Messenger of Allâh sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam about the good, but I used to ask him about the evil from fear that it would overtake me, so I said: O Messenger of Allâh! We used to be in jâhiliyyah (ignorance) and evil, then Allâh brought this good to us, so is there any evil after this good? He said: “Yes.†I said: And is there any good after that evil? He said: “Yes, but it will be tainted.†I asked: What will taint it? He said: “ A people guiding others with other than my Sunnah, you will approve of some (of their actions) and disapprove of others .†I asked: Then is there any evil after that good? He said: “Yes! Callers to the Gates of Hell-Fire, whoever responds to them in that will be thrown into it.†I said: O Messenger of Allâh! Describe them to us. He said: “ They will be from our own people and speak our language.â€

 

The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam said:

“Indeed, Allâh does not accept the repentance of an innovator, until he stops the innovation.â€

 

A man said to ’Abdullâh ibn ’Umar(RA):

Najdah (a man from the Khawârij) says such and such. So Ibn ’Umar prevented himself from listening for fear that some of it should enter his heart.

 

Al-Hasan (d.110H) - rahimahullâh - said:

“Do not sit with the people of innovation and desires, nor argue with them, nor listen to them.â€

 

 

If it is in the akhlaaq of the Salaf ul Saalih, to point fingers and make tajriix of other groups who we differ in some of the aqeedah issues or Fiqh? like puting down the Tabligh, ikhwan and the Saruuri?

Bro NUr, Let the Salaf speak for themselves! And no we do not differ with these people due to fiq issues, rather ‘Aqeeda only!

 

Imaam Maalik said, " how evil are the People of Innovation, we do not give them salaam" [al-Ibaanah of ibn Battah (d.387) no.441]

 

We dont even give them salam!

Asmâ bint ’Ubayd said:

Two of the people of vain desires and innovations entered upon Ibn Sîrîn (d.110H) and said: O Abû Bakr, may we speak to you? He said: “No!†They said: May we recite to you an âyâh from the Book of Allâh? He said: “No! Indeed, either you will get up and leave me, or I will get up.†So they went out and some of the people said: O Abû Bakr, what harm would it have done to you, for them to read an âyah from the Book of Allâh? He said: “I feared they they would read an âyah to me and change it, and that would remain in my heart.â€

 

An innovator asked Ayyûb as-Sakhtiyânî (d.131H):

O Abû Bakr, may I ask you about a word: He turned away and indicated with his hand - “No, not even half a word.â€

 

 

As for the party, all Salafis, ikhwaanis, Tabliighis, Sarusri, Taxriris who follow Allah and his messenger, believe in the unseen, are invited as long as they follow

It was said to Imâm al-Awzâ’î (d.157H) - rahimahullâh: A person says, ‘I sit with Ahlus-Sunnah and I sit with the innovators.’ So al-Awzâ’î said: “This person desires to fluctuate between the truth and falsehood.†[54]

 

Commenting upon this saying, Ibn Battah said: “Al-Awzâ’î has indeed spoken the truth. And I say: Indeed this person does not know the truth from falsehood, nor faith from disbelief.â€

 

Qâdî Abû Ya’lâ (d.333H) - rahimahullâh - said in Hijrul-ilbbtadi’ (p.32): “ There is ijmâ’ (consensus) from the Sahâbah and the Tâbi’în as regards dissociating and cutting-off from the Innovators.â€

 

Yahyaa bin ‘Ubaid said: “A man from the Mu’atazilah encountered me one day, so I got up and said: “ Either you pass on or I will pass on, for indeed if I were to walk with a Christian, that would be more loved to me than if I were to walk with you.†Al-Bid’a wan-Nahee ‘anhaa (59)

 

Arta’ Ibn al-Mundir said: “If my son were one of the sinful wicked people, that would be more beloved to me than if he were a Follower of Desires (i.e. a deviant).†[6]

 

Akhee Shaykh Taymiyah was most Harsh with Ahlul Bi’dah, especially with those Sufies! May Allah give them what they deserve!

 

 

I am in the opinion that if innovation is what we are warned against, then, calling ourselkves Salafiyah to be a clear Bidca, innovation that only creates and supports other groups to call themselves with similar cult names.

Then wouldn’t calling yourself “SUNNI†be innovation? Wa Allahu Musta3an!

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah-->

Surely All Praises belongs to Allah!

 

Sahal as for your question, Only the scholars can take someone out of the manhaj of the salaf, and this is done with prove! the Scholars are the ones with Ilm, they are the inheritors of the prophet! Albani was exilted from 5 countries including Saudi Arabia, and he was imprisoned in Syria, Shaykh Muqbil was exilted from Saudi Arabia but they were still on the manhaj of the salaf! When it comes to politics we handled it the way the Salaf handle it, we follow their path! we do not follow our emotions like must muslims do when it comes to political issues!

 

So for someone to leave the Salaf manhaj, they only do so when they oppose the salafi manhaj! The scholars take these individuals and first advice them in a handsome matter, explaining to them their errors, if they are persistant on this path , then the scholars warn about them, lest he should misguide others! In summary, only the scholars are fit to take someone out of the manhaj!

[Salafi_Online]

innalhamdulillah....

 

Calling as-Salafiyyah a "movement" or "movements." It should be clear to all that the Salafi Da'wah is Islam, no more and no less. It is the True Islam with all its teachings and implications. Anyone who talks about it as an outsider might as well talk about Islam as an outsider! It is the teachings of the Qur'an and the authentic Sunnah in the light of practices and understanding of as-Salaf: A "movement" is meant to indicate something temporal or reactionary, whereas the Salafi Da'wah is the only true and constant and blessed Da wah of the prophets.

 

Thinking or claiming that the Salafs are followers of a fifth madth'hab which is attributed to Ibn Taymiyyah or Ibn Baz or al-Albani. This is a grave misconception. As stated above, the Salaf sources are the Qur an, the Sunnah, and the methodology of as-Salaf: If these scholars rely in their ijtihad on these sources then we take what they say, not because they said it, rather because Allah or His Messenger said it or called to it directly or indirectly through the known channels of ijtihad. The same applies to all scholars throughout the ages. We take from them all what conforms with the Qur'an and the Sunnah and we reject what does not.

 

The Salaf Da'wah is against all forms of 'asabiyyah and hizbiyyah (baseless allegiance for parties, factions, races, nations, etc). The only allowed allegiance is to Allah and His Messenger and to what stems from it. The leader of all Salafis is Muhammad (S). Anyone else will be respected and obeyed in as much as he obeys Allah and His Messenger. Claiming that the Salafi Da'wah calls its followers to be disorganized and chaotic in their behavior is another misconception. Work has to be organized and orderly, as was taught by the Messenger (S) on many occasions, but it should avoid the hizbiyyah disease described above.

 

The Salafi Da'wah puts a strong emphasis on tarbiyah (education and cultivation). This is not a mere academic educational process; rather, it is a complete process which is meant to raise committed Muslims who understand their Din and who practice it in the best possible way.

 

www.qss.com

[Nur]

Salafi Bro.

 

First of all, Allah SWT says " In case you differ on an issue, then refer to Allah(Quraan) and His Messneger ( Sunnah)"

 

Walaal, Many of your references were not from Quraan, nor a hadeeth, but from respected Scholars of ahlul Sunnah wal jamacah, who becuase they are humans like us, we are at freedom to take or leave what they say as long as their ideas are not backed up with the above sources.

 

Before you get so holed up in a corner seeing the world in two colors, it may be worth your while to read a subject that may help you see the big picture, this subject is called Maqaasidul Shariica, it is concerned about the spirit of the Sunnah and Allah's commandments, with respect to the letter of teh Hadeeth which you stress with no regard to the driver of these Sunnahs, the companions once killed a companions with a wrong fatwa of Hadeeth, the Prophet SAWS was reported as saying when he heard a group of companions forced an injured compnion to make Ghusl, and he later died " Qataluuh, qatalahumull Allah" Aw kamaa qaala Al Rasuul, I cant remember the Isnaad.

 

The disagreements within Muslims have two sources:

 

1. Genuine misunderstanding while each is trying to do the right thing.

 

The driver here is from ambiguity in :

 

1. Semantics

2. Context

3. Order of things ( Requirements management)

4. Objective ( Clarity)

 

 

2. Obeying Satan ( Al Baghy)

 

The driver here is the result of "CUJB" ( Thinking that a group is better than a group) Allah SWT says, that no group of men should look down upon another group of men , for possibility that the latter may be better than them"

 

 

As we Follow the Quraan and Sunnah, when we read something, we may understand something else, and act in a different way by mistake compounding the problem.

 

When we debate on any issue we should keep four things in mind:

 

1. Thubuut (Autenticity)

 

2. Dalaalah ( Implication)

 

3. Qadci ( Based on Certainty)

 

4. Dhanni ( Based on opinion)

 

 

So your proof (daleel) could fall in this matrix:

 

1. Qadci thubuut, Qadci Dalaalah ( Authentic, Single Meaning)

2. Qadci Thubuut, Dhanni Dalaalah ( Authentic, dubious meaning)

3. Dhanni Thubuut, Qadci Dalaalah(Dubious Authenticity, Single meaning)

4. Dhanni Thubuut, Dhanni Dalaalah ( Dubious authenticity, Dubious meaning)

 

Any group or a person who makes bidca (innovation) in the first category, is deffinetly lost, like Khawaarij, Murjia, Muctazila and the new modern sects, may Allah guide them.

 

The other three categories, have a room of disagrement depending on the supportive materials, context, other hadeeths and verses etc. So, no one has a monopoly of bein right in that area, because it is Dhanni, or amobiguous, like when the prophet SAWS ordered the Sahaabah that no prayers should be held before they reached at Bani Qureydha, in which case the companions who heard the same thing, acted differently, now if one group calls the other a Bidci ( innovator) and refuse to talk and sit with them, how do you expect to unite Muslims which is a wajib?

 

Brother, When Osman Radiyallahu Canhu was killed by the Fitnah followers, he was an old man, reading the Quraan, very pious and more concerned about saving his soul than body, that is why he did not stop reading Quraan when the Khawariji came ti kill him, and so was Umar and Ali, the more we see ourselves as the criterion of good and bad, the more fitna we'll fall in, we need to influence people kindly as long as what we disagree is not fundemental Aqeedah issues, and if the issue is Aqeedah, Allah taught us in Quraan " wa jaadilhum bi latii hiya axsan" to debate withg them in the most effective and beautiful way to help people out of darkness to the light of islam, not your curent combattive style.

 

I still believe that Salafi or Sunni, or any name that is not simply "Muslim" is an innovation, because neither the Messenger of Allah nor the Khulafaa have sanctioned these names, thus they are bidcah. Howver one can say, "I a Muslim, and I strive to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad SAWS and the GOOD SALAF"

 

Wallahu Aclam

 

 

Nur

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdullah---> Surely All praises Belongs to Allah

 

First of all, Allah SWT says " In case you differ on an issue, then refer to Allah(Quraan) and His Messneger ( Sunnah)"

Akhee, baarakallahu feek, may Allah reward you, this ayah is commanding that we refer to The scholars of Islam, because not every Muslim knows the quran, from the abrogated verses to the ambiguous ones and so on, and none of us can take the sunnah and just derive rulings from it, we need to know what is sahih hadith and Hasan, da’eef, fabricated ect and this goes back to the science of Hadith! this is why when we differ on an issue we refer back to the Scholars of islam, because they speak on behalf of Allah and his messenger! Then this leads me to my next question,

 

NUr who are your scholars today?

 

akhee I honestly believe your mixing up two issues Ikhtilaf and methodology!

 

 

When two parties differ on Manhaj, meaning they way they understand the Kitaab and the Sunnah, then this is not something one can tolerate, because there is only one straight path not multiples! Ikhtilaf is normal as long as you have your supporting evidences! but Ikhtilaf is not Manhaj!

 

 

Walaal, Many of your references were not from Quraan, nor a hadeeth, but from respected Scholars of ahlul Sunnah wal jamacah, who becuase they are humans like us, we are at freedom to take or leave what they say as long as their ideas are not backed up with the above sources.

Brother, I believe you asked me if the salaf make tajreex our other groups, now your saying is it from the quran and the sunnah, then your initial question should have been, is it in the quran and hadith to make tajreex of other groups!

 

And these Scholars do they not follow the Quran and Hadith, are they speaking from their own desires? Why do you think Allah messenger(saas) said the BEST OF THE PEOPLE ARE FROM MY GENERATION THEN THOSE AFTER THEM THEN THOSE AFTER THEM! They are the best in understand the Quran and Hadith my brother! Please do not minimize the status of the scholars!

 

I still believe that Salafi or Sunni, or any name that is not simply "Muslim" is an innovation, because neither the Messenger of Allah nor the Khulafaa have sanctioned these names, thus they are bidcah.

1) if calling yourself Sunni is innovation, Subhanallah, then you must refrain from saying you’re a Sunni,

 

This is your opinion akhee, and it shall remain as such, you do not have the credentials or Knowledge to make such verdict! Rather we stick the scholars of islam because Allah takes Knowledge way from us by the death of the scholars,

 

'Abdullah b. 'Amr b. al-'As reported:

 

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Verily, Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people but he takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, so that when He leaves no learned person, people turn to ignorant ones as their leaders; then they are asked to deliver religious verdicts and they deliver them without knowledge, they go astray, and lead others astray.(Sahih Muslim Book 034, Number 6462)

 

 

Thus it is obvious that knowledge can only be found with the scholars!

 

So if the scholar say "Calling yourself a Sunni or Salafi is not Bi'dCa" how is it that you contradict them?

[Nur]

Salafi Bro

 

Are you suggesting that scholars are infallible?

 

If you agree that they can go wrong, what is the assurances that we need to have when we listen to a scholar to stay on the right course?

 

Isn't the word Manhaj the same as the word Sunnah in plain Arabic Language?

 

Why do you fail to understand the above classification of drivers for difference, is it too complex for you to understand/

 

What are the requirements according to Quraan and Sunnah for us to define a pesron to be a scholar?

 

What is the definition of Bidca according to the sharia?

 

 

An ignorant servant of Allah seeking Knowledge, please enlighten me and the viewers.

 

 

Nur

[Salafi_Online]

brother, im saying that the scholars are the one with the ilm, and even abu bakr was not infallable. they are the inheritors of the prophet, and when they error they still get a reward for it, unlike you bro! and the scholars of islam do not agree upon error! this is a hadith!

 

manhaj in the religion context is the way one understands the kitab and sunnah

 

while sunnah in the religion context is the saying and actions of the messenger of Allah(saw)

 

 

bid'ah is innovation, something that replaces the sunnah! there is bi'ah fee dunyah and bi'ah fee deen! bi'ah fee deen is something that takes away a practice of the messenger of allah(saw) and replaces it with something new. so to say Calling your self a sunni is bi'ah,is crazy! because saying your a sunni simply means you follow the sunnah, which is true, and the truth can not be labelled as innovation!

 

and again akhee, dont mix up ikhtilaf(difference of opinon) with manhaj differences! it is you who fails to comprehend this concept!

 

and i tried to explain to you that the way of the salaf is the only acceptable way by Allah! you contend with the scholars. I gave you reference after reference of the scholars, mind you not just one, but many of them, who said the manhaj of the salaf is wajib(must) yet you clich to your views. which is fine but stop please stop saying enlighten "this ignorant servant of allah" since you have made ur righ mind already... and this is not the first time! i remember you said:

 

firs you said!

this was from the post Salafiya v.s Hizbu Thareer

An advice for Nomads from an ignorant brother.

then after i gave u a fatwah from the scholar u said!

 

Justifying the validity of a group named Salafis by Sheikh Albanis comments is not sufficient for the following grounds.

and you made up ur own principals

 

then! in this thread u said!

 

Rescue me from my ignorance

i gave you prove from the scholars and their opinion because there is a reason why Allah said "Ask those which knowledge" and there is a reason why Allah takes away knowledge by the death of the scholars. so i gave u there virdicts then you come back and say:

 

I still believe that Salafi or Sunni, or any name that is not simply "Muslim" is an innovation

why do u even bother saying the following?

 

An ignorant servant of Allah seeking Knowledge, please enlighten me and the viewers

because it seems to me that you have your own understanding of islam, you understand the Kitab and sunnah according to your way, and whoever differs with your principals, including well known scholars who have devoted their life to islam, let alone the salaf(companions.tabee'en) it wont change your mind! Saxib give me a break! accept the prove from me, you dont want to call yourself salafi, fine, as long as you uphold the methodology of the salaf! that you acribe to them, refer and attach yourself to them this is the principal Ibn taymiyah the one who you admire so much!

[Nur]

Salafi Bro.

 

Don't loose your cool, I have not made my mind up, I am genuinely seeking Knowledge because I am not yet dead, because we must seek knowledge from cradle to grave.

 

The reason that I have asked you the above questions wasd to see if I was reading you wrong, but after your response, you have further strengthened what I was guessing, the fact that you are following a narrow interpretation of the Manhaj of teh Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaach.

 

For your knowledge, the collection of aqeedah and fiqh that we have were the result of a lot of dialogue an disagreements, when we talk about manhaj, we are talking the about the Sunnah itself, in the Arabic language, MANHAJ simply means the way of being a servant of Allah SWT, the way of deductive reasoning, the way of discussing an issue, all of thyem being the way of teh Rasul SAWS.

 

Nown that I clarified the Manhaj, what remains is how to handle differences. Like I said, a difference of interpretation can grow out of contextual, semantics, objectives etc. we are in essence following the same manhaj, that of our Prophet SAWS, for example, about the Asmaa and Sifaat issue like the ISTIWAA , our Manhaj is that " Al Istiwaa macluum, wal Keif Majhuul, wa Su'aalu canhu Bidcah" This methodology was later generelized bu our scholars, and because of that cilmul kalaam became a bidcah, which is a waste and a sin.

 

The reason I was alarmed about the issue of the scholars is the fact that Sufi use the same logic, " ASK THE SHEIKH", we the ahlul Sunnah wal jamaacah litsen to our Sheikh and respect them, however, we do not follow them blindly, because it was reported that Omar once asked the companions " what would you do if i get lost" the companions said " we will straighten you with our swords"

 

Qualifying a set of Sheikhs to be the only sheikhs for Ahlul Sunnah is a very touchy issue, today, Islam is at cross roads, and many scholars are looking at our problems from a different perspective, however, every Alim has a Zallah ( mistake) which may not disqualify him to be taken as a scholar in issues he is in line with Ahlul Sunnah wal jamaacah.

 

I am also sensing the same Hizbiyyah from your posts, which you neeed to outgrow if you really believe that we are all Muslims, many groups today are lost because they only liten to a single frequency and topic, Jihadis, only talk Jihaad, Tablighis only talk Jawla and bayaan, Taxriiris talk only Khilaafa, Ikhwan talk about Islamic State, Salafis talk only Ibaadah of Allah, and obediuence of Waliyul Amr.

 

In my opinion, we need to look at this mosaic of Islamic streams like the remnant of broken body of a lizard, each part moving to a different direction, because the head is cut off, and unless we rise up to a higher intellectual level, we can not solve current problems facing Muslims with same mentality that created it in the first place.

 

When I read your posts, I find it well substantiated, well supported, it looks like a book of law, but it lacks the ribbon the ties the pieces together for delivering a solution to a nation in disarray, while others are suggesting solutions, without referring back to a well substantiated sources of the Sunnah like you do, they also are in a spin, running on a threadmill, we need wisdom, because knowledge without wisdom is dangerous, and wisdom without knowledge is ineffective.

 

" Wa man yutaa al xikmata fa qad uutiya kheyran katheeraa"

 

 

Nur

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Nur:

Salafi Bro.

 

The reason I was alarmed about the issue of the scholars is the fact that Sufi use the same logic, " ASK THE SHEIKH", we the ahlul Sunnah wal jamaacah litsen to our Sheikh and respect them, however, we do not follow them blindly, because it was reported that Omar once asked the companions " what would you do if i get lost" the companions said " we will straighten you with our swords"

 

Qualifying a set of Sheikhs to be the only sheikhs for Ahlul Sunnah is a very touchy issue, today, Islam is at cross roads, and many scholars are looking at our problems from a different perspective, however, every Alim has a Zallah ( mistake) which may not disqualify him to be taken as a scholar in issues he is in line with Ahlul Sunnah wal jamaacah.

 

I am also sensing the same Hizbiyyah from your posts, which you neeed to outgrow if you really believe that we are all Muslims, many groups today are lost because they only liten to a single frequency and topic, Jihadis, only talk Jihaad, Tablighis only talk Jawla and bayaan, Taxriiris talk only Khilaafa, Ikhwan talk about Islamic State, Salafis talk only Ibaadah of Allah, and obediuence of Waliyul Amr.

 

" Wa man yutaa al xikmata fa qad uutiya kheyran katheeraa"

 

 

Nur

Salaamz,

So Nur, question to you then, Is the Deen

a BUFFET, where anyone who is not a Chef/Nutrionist/Doctor etc. can just PICK AND CHOSE as they WANT???

 

Hey we live in the age of the Information, so let me type in Google for some Islamic Direction and se what I like-RIGHT?

 

 

Where do the Ulama stand then? Are they just to be used for the sake of Convienance i.e.

If I like that Alim's opinion, I shall take it but if I don't, then he is in the error cause he is a man, so let me do my OWN Interpretation (why? cause I trust myself more than some Alim that I don't know!)

 

Did not the rasul (salallahu caliyhe waslim) always assign Amirs in every campgain (which he could not attend!)? What was the purpose of that Amir then if the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm was alive, He could have just told/ instructed someone and handed out a sheet or just told the Sahaba what to do?

 

I would say more but I am at work and my state of mind is not Holistic.

 

Fi Amanillah

[Nur]

Kheyr bro.

 

The topic and your questions have delved into another territory, which needs its own thread, the area is called TAQLIID.

 

Is taqliid of a sheikh mandatory?

 

imaam Sancaani says no, and i agree with him,

 

 

Nur

[sahal]

I think the problem here is not we listen and respect the ULUMA but rather, do we listen and at least respect all of them or we listen and respect part of them and insult and mock others.

 

and this is exactly what Salafi-on-line is doing; if Sheikh Albani or Bin Baz said it is always right but if Sheikh Qaradawi, Salman Al-awda, Safar al-Hawali, Dhandhawi and others, who also devoted whole their life to this religion, said Salafi-on-line's group would not listen on the contrary they insult and mock them because some of their Sheikhs told them that they're not among their group thus they worth nothing and their books, cassets, talks should be warned.

 

Salafi-on-line always repeats ULUMA and SCHOLARS while he meant handfull Scholars. therefore i think what we shouldn't do is to prefer some Uluma than the others and claim that we listen the Uluma.

 

what Bro. Nur is warning is that each group to have their own ULUMA and follow them blindly even if they're wrong (other than the Kitaab & Sunnah)and others are right (according the Kitaab & Sunnah) since we definetly know that everybody including Scholars could be wrong in one or several issues even if they're right in million other issues.

 

there are many examples about this issue but i will present them whaen Bro. Nur opent the new trhread.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Nur:

Kheyr bro.

 

The topic and your questions have delved into another territory, which needs its own thread, the area is called TAQLIID.

 

Is taqliid of a sheikh mandatory?

 

imaam Sancaani says no, and i agree with him,

 

 

Nur

Salaamz, walaal

I am a little confused here, you disagree with Br. Salafi-online but yet you follow the same mujtahids (Ibn Taymiyyah or Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah etc.) in Aqida. These same Shiekhs and their students don't believe in TAQLID (following a particular Shiekh) but yet this is what you are doing and you impose on others in your arguments.

 

Sahal, walaal, the issues are confusing to me

b/c this debate btwn to Salafi brothers who agree on most things is wellllll-CONFUSING :confused:

 

I think the problem here is not we listen and respect the ULUMA but rather, do we listen and at least respect all of them or we listen and respect part of them and insult and mock others.

Saxib, I agree with you and here is wherein lays the confusion in this debate btwn these brothers.

Why? Cause they are both doing the same thing that you speak of 'PICKING ONE SET OF ULAMA AND REJECTING AND INVALIDATING ANY IJTIHADS FROM OTHER ULAMA be they Ahl al Taswuuf, Ithnaacshari, Ashari (most sunni ulama) or even salafi.

 

Fi Amanillah