Is Patriotism An Extension of Clannish Mindset?

[Nur]

Ayoub bro.

 

 

You write:

 

Is that position a somewhat religiously, politically or morally better for Somalis to put themselves in again?

 

I don't get it, How can that happen again, do you mean that if the confrontation in the south continues that he South will be awarded to different care taker countries as protectorates?

 

 

Lol @ turub, Somalis not only are quick learners, now they are roaming the planet beating the Indians in Kenya and South Africa in retail business, very entrepreneurial, just give them another 20 years, you will see wonders, who needs tiny Somalia, the whole world is up for grabs!

 

Nur

[NGONGE]

Nur,

 

Beating around the bush is not in my nature, saaxib. Therefore, when I perceive an agenda in something someone writes, I try to put it out there at once and inform the person of my understanding and perception of his words. This is why I wrote the first paragraph in my last reply. Since you have not given me any reason to change my mind, I still believe that the aim of this thread of yours is to forward the Islamic take on patriotism and clannish mindsets. In addition, since I also know of your sympathies with the Somali “resistance” movements, I also believe that your opinions here are driven by that sympathy. In other words, you are selling us the Shabab take on these issues.

 

I repeat that patriotism and the declaration that one belongs to a certain clan has nothing to do with Aqeedah or Tawheed. One can proudly belong to a clan whilst fully believing that there is no god but Allah and that Mohamed (csw) is his prophet. That circumstances forced people to regress to the safety of the clan is not at all equivalent to treating the clan as a ‘wali’ or ‘protector’ alongside the almighty. This is not AMISOM ya shaykhuna, this is the tol, the kin and the family. It is merely a grouping just like Al Shabab are a grouping or Hezbu El Islam are a grouping (by the way, why are those two groupings separate if they both claim to be fighting for the xaq?).

 

The clan would only contradict Aqeedah if its followers chose it in preference to or alongside their creator. Luckily (and Alhamdulillah of course) they don’t (they are simply tying their camels whilst putting their trust in Allah). So where do we go with this? Sit back, let me lead for a while. If our eventual destination is the xaq (regardless of what slant each of us puts on it) we shall reach it, Insha’Allah.

 

Here is what I think (and you have to go back to my first paragraph here & in my previous reply to see my starting point), Islam shall ultimately prevail. It will because the people are fervently Muslim, fully committed and hopelessly innocent. You have seen how they flocked to the ICU, you have also seen how those Courts were a Union that represented most clans in the capital city and you have seen how easily clan animosities were suppressed in those six months of court rule. Alas, the wretched ICU let it all slip through their fingers with their crazy far-fetched ideas and stubborn belief that war is the only answer. Still (and this is the important part), the basic ingredients are all there and as soon as viable Islamic leadership is found the people shall flock to it again.

 

You and others may insist that a viable Islamic leadership already exists in the guise of Al Shabab and Hezbu El Islam. Some might even go further and cite Sheikh Sharif as one. Alas, the various clans in Somalia would disagree with such a contention. Nobody is flocking to any of these groupings and the endless fighting continues (with Al Shabab capturing towns then getting evicted from them repeatedly). They are no ICU and Sheikh Sharif’s is not a government. The mistrust continues.

Today, in Somalia, clan is everything. Clans represent nations within nations. Yet, the mosques are still full and the people still (try) to fulfil all their religious obligations. When clans fall out over resources (and that would indeed include representation nationally), some might resort to clannish bragging. Such bragging, however, is not the be all and end all of clannish belonging. There are reasons that bring it along (as explained above).

We are all members of SOL. We know what the rules are and most try to follow these rules. We also know that if a moderator of any section abuses his privileges, we would still have the option of making a complaint to the administrator of the site. If people are not happy with the administrator’s decision or feel that he is not impartial, they usually boycott the site (or even create one of their own, like we had a few years back). Micnaha, SOL oon ayaay ka baxeen, diinta wali way ku jiraan.

 

Though I already spoke about patriotism in my earlier reply, I feel I must expand on the idea and deal with it from a Somali point of view. In the Somali sense, patriotism does not exist. Well, not in the way of belonging to one nation, one people and one government. Only a spattering of dreamers who neither work towards realising such a goal nor advance any ideas to create it, are the ones who believe in such a redundant (under the circumstances) concept. They bemoan clannish blocks but offer no feasible alternative that would build up trust or unity. In fact, your Islamic outlook has a much bigger chance of bearing fruit than theirs ever would (if only it were not sullied by Al Shabab associations ).

 

 

P.S.

I chose not to reply to your earlier words because I did not believe it had anything to do with the topic itself. However, I would appreciate it (when you have the time) if you wrote an article about the ‘xeer’ system and its conflict with Islam.

[Nur]

Ngonge saaxib

 

 

Are you saying that our loyalty to Allah and our loyalty to a given Somali clan can never conflict? specially when the clan's immediate interests and the interest of Islam diverge?

 

If they can conflict;

 

Are you saying that as long as a person says "Laa ilaaha illa Allahu", that his/her loyalty (to a clan that is in contempt of Allah's law), doesn't affect his Aqeedah and Tawheed in Allah at all?

 

 

Nur

 

 

N.B. I wrote a piece on the Xeer many years ago on SOL Islam pages, InshaaAllah I will look for it, or rewrite it again.

[Prometheus]

To say that the nation-state is merely the tribal state writ large is overly simplistic to the point of vacuity. Similarities between the two structural systems - the nation-state and the tribal state - notwithstanding, there are significant divergences between the modern conception of the "nation-state" and the system of the tribe narrowly construed.

 

Historically, those with whom we shared biological affinity were, on the one hand, a veritable insurance policy; those with whom we shared no such affinity became, on the other hand, the deadly enemy; in fact, the definition of “other” was essentially a person who “does not share my genes”, the essence of our evolutionary imperative. This primitive tribalism blossomed into a more inclusive tribalism, though not without considerable bloodshed and coercion. Tribe membership was not limited to biological relation. You did not have to have certain genes to be part of a certain group. It was enough that you shared a language, a cultural narrative, or a religious myth.

 

Though religious tribalism has been particularly effective at uniting people of disparate ethnic backgrounds, it ironically perpetuated the divisive in-group and out-group psychology of primitive tribalism in a different guise, implanting a smoldering hostility against the “other” - those who did not share the particular mythology of the group. People outside the faith were viewed with suspicion and mistrust. As many religious systems exhorted, affinity and closeness should be shifted from the arbitrary basis of biology (“we share a father") to the imaginary foundation of religion ("we share a faith"). In contrast, the sagacious thinkers of the enlightenment demurred; they understood that religion, far from being a social panacea, would only exacerbate an inevitable "Hobbesian trap".

 

The "expanding circle" of loyalty and sympathy would later come to include people who did not share a faith. You cannot withhold loyalty and sympathy from others because you do not share their faith anymore than you deny them loyalty and sympathy because you do not share their father. Primitive and parochial sentiments of this sort became indefensible to reasonable people, a more complex and rounded identity was needed. Humanism eloquently captures this identity. Ethnic tribalism (African, Asian, and European) and religious tribalism (Christian, Muslim, and Hindu) should give way to the intrinsic worth of the individual.

 

In most liberal democracies, you can obtain membership (citizenship) to the "nation-state" without an ethnic or religious litmus test. That is to say, your ethnicity and religion are only a small part of your identity, not your whole identity. Ethnic bigots, as well as religious bigots, often loose sight of this fact as they stir up fear and ancient hatreds against those who belong to a different ethnicity or religion. For instance, they forget that someone called Achebe isn't only African, but an engineer, a father, a coach, a husband, a person with similar aspirations and dreams. Prometheus isn’t just a Muslim. That would be an impoverished identity. There are many features of individual identity more salient than father and faith. This is the bedrock principal of liberal, pluralist "nation-states".

[NGONGE]

^^ Interesting take, if a tad inflammatory.

 

Nur,

 

Of course they could clash. In the same way some of your actions and decisions as an individual could clash with Aqeedah or Tawheed. But surely that is neither here nor there. I have already explained to you (I hoped) that clan loyalty is not absolute, it is merely convenient under our current circumstances. The choice of following a wayward clan or forsaking it would rest with the individual in the same way it did at the time of the prophet. Did not Cumar Ibnu Al Khatab kill his own uncle in Bader? Did not Cali Ibnu Ibi Taalib kill his own cousin?

 

On the other hand, did not Khalid Ibnu Al Waleed urge his fighters to break up into clan lines so that they can tell where the weakness comes from? And all this while they were fighting Musaylimah Al Kadab!

 

Clan in itself is not a problem and hardly ever was.

[Prometheus]

^ When I read your writings on these subjects, I can't shake the feeling that you're a recovering theocrat. This isn't a back-handed compliment.

 

My intention wasn't to pen a jeremaid against tribal systems per se, but to draw a sharp distinction between secular democracy and illiberal and intolerant tribal systems, both ethnic and religious. Secularism and pluralism are not only compatible with Islam, rather, as many muslim thinkers have argued, Islam is best served by a secular state. You might want to leaf through Professor Abdullahi Al-Na'im's book, Islam and the Secular State. Harvard Press

[NGONGE]

^^ ^^ Not recovering. Tentative, saaxib, tentative.

 

I admit that I like the concept of an idealistic theocracy but also know that I would never trust mere mortals to do it justice.

[N.O.R.F]

I would tend to agree with Ngonge Al Burcaawi

 

Its a resources conflict. A lack of leadership has hindered the move away from tribalism. The Arabs had the same situation many years ago but have been blessed with leaders who managed to understand inclusiveness breeds unity.

 

We should have our tribe names as our last names (ismu thalaathi)

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Nur:

I don't get it, How can that happen again, do you mean that if the confrontation in the south continues that he South will be awarded to different care taker countries as protectorates?

No. Just wanted know what you wanted. I'm trying not to accuse you the way Ngenge has.

[Nur]

Ayoub Bro

 

Before the 1884 Berlin European Colonial Borders Conference for Africa, all of what is now Central and Northeast Somalia, Somaliland, Western Somalia, Djibouti were all part of SOMALILAND (Mogadishu Brava and Kismayu were part of Zanzibar). Siilanyo has to claim all of 1872 borders of Somaliland, not the Berlin borders only.

 

Here is the map

 

Greater Somaliland Circa 1872

 

 

Nur

[AYOUB]

^ Well, as you can see Xamar was part of Zanzibar.

 

Even so, I still don't see how that would be a religiously better because even the likes of Michael Mariano believed in the 1872 map.

 

What if I say; it is important for my cousins to stay within Ethiopia so they can make the country's muslims the majority. How is dividing Oromo/Afar Muslims from Somali Muslim religiously better? Ain't that an extension of clannish mindset?

[Nur]

The main question this thread raised was:

 

1. How should people be grouped? Ethnically or by religious affiliation?

 

2. Should we be loyal to nation-states based and founded along western colonial borders? and if so, pre- Berlin or after Berlin?

 

In the above example, neither does the Somaliland map serve the ethnicity of its inhabitants nor the religious grouping, it thus creates ethno-religious conflicts, as a result making these people poorer and at the mercy of scavenger colonialists.

 

Nur

[AYOUB]

^ Aw Nuurow where is the head-on collision with Tawxiid in that argument?

 

Clannish conflict has always been part of Somali nomadic lifestyle since time immemorial. Changing the map won't help that much, would it?

 

PS Have you just turned "Somaliweyniste" on us?

[Nur]

^ Aw Nuurow where is the head-on collision with Tawxiid in that argument?

 

 

Akhi, I was trying to let Nomads answer the questions I posed on the apparent contradiction between Tawhiid and Nationalism-Clannism. Ngonge has attempted from a high level perspective ( not delving deep enough) but failed to satisfy my last two questions, therefore I may be obliged to answer my own questions if no Nomad participates with their own views on the thread starter questions (this includes you yaa Ayoub. Maaha!)

 

 

Nur

[AYOUB]

^ Maybe you just didn't like the responses you had.

 

Anyways, enough suspense please do give us what you've cooking. In your answers I urge you to touch on issues like the proposed Sudan referendum. I also want to hear your take on countries that have diverse religious beliefs like Tanzania. Remember; towns like Xamar, Marka, Baraawe etc came under the Sultaan of Zanzibar under (your) 1872 map. Good luck..