France bids to 'shape' Islam

[underdog]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4390117E-EBBD-42A6-BA2E-06BDE7B7D4C7.htm

 

France intends to shape Islam on its territory by training Muslim prayer leaders in French and civic studies, Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin has said.

 

He was responding to questions about a plan he unveiled on Tuesday in which imams would have to undergo studies in law, sociology and French institutions in state universities before being permitted to preach in the 1685 mosques and Muslim prayer rooms around the country.

 

Theological studies would continue to be carried out in recognised Islamic institutes.

 

De Villepin's reform would also see the establishment in January of ministry units involving domestic intelligence agents and police specialised in cracking down on what is seen as "radical Islam", and, from April, the launch of a Foundation for Islam that would help finance the building of mosques.

 

"French imams speaking French, that is our goal," he told parliament on Wednesday.

 

Currently more than a third of the 1200 imams, or Muslim prayer leaders practicing in France, "don't speak our language, which is unacceptable for our republic," he said.

 

The left-leaning daily Liberation asked if the initiatives were "a miracle solution" to help boost Islam in France, where it is the second-biggest religion after Catholicism, or merely "an attempt by France to control Islam?"

 

In an editorial, the newspaper gave a lukewarm endorsement, saying: "Why not, if this lifts the hypocrisy that today makes Islam a religion that is more tolerated than respected".

 

De Villepin told parliament that the specialised university course would be open from next September "to all those who wish to take part" and that imam training would be implemented in "regions where we have most need," citing the Paris area and the French Riviera as examples.

[Paragon]

^^^ Thanks for the information. It is indeed a worrying trend. In the UK it has already taken place. In my univeristy, a government trained Imam was brought in to monitor Islamic students' activities, and preach during the Friday and Eid prayers. These imams come under the university's Christian Chaplaincy, which lays the rules for the Imams. Bear in mind that these Imams undergo a course deviced by the government and tought in special universities or institutions. These new developments were on the UK TV sometime back.

 

The government is considering "strengthening the hand" of moderate Muslim leaders, and refusing entry visas to foreign imams who cannot demonstrate a basic knowledge of English or of British society.

State training for Imams

 

So, you could say France is behind Britain for that matter.

[Strawberry_Xu]

I always thought it was a good idea for Imams to speak the language of the country they're living in. Or to preach in that language. Personally I prefer it, because I don't speak Arabic, not very many people do, so it would be more beneficial for muslims if they spoke in a language they could understand.

 

However, (as some people are attempting) to prohibit preaching in a language other than the national one, is just wrong. In mosques in certain communities, people will get a better understanding of what is being preached in a language they understand. To deprive them of that, means that the government sees religion as nothing more than a political tool.

 

This scares me a little. Especially since they don't specify what 'radical' really is. It can be used to challenge any Islamic concepts; restriction of interfaith-marriages, teaching that Islam is absolute, circumcision, fasting children etc.

 

What I mean is, unless the MPs drafting the terms defining radicalism are widely respected and learned Imams or muslim scholars, they have no business interfering with religion

 

Honestly, soon you'll need a license to be a Muslim.

 

Start teaching your ayeeyo all the Harry Potter knowledge she'll need for the Britishness test, before she can call herself a Muslim.

[underdog]

Xu, freedom of religion shouldn't be regulated. The MPs have no business defining what means what in Islam. When you impose borders on what you as a Muslim can and can't do, it's only a matter of time before they decide Friday prayers are inappropriate and shouldn't be held at all.

[Alle-ubaahne]

xu,

 

You agree with the Gaalo, right? Yeah, I could see that from your unveiled hair. Please, go and take your hijaab first, then express your views politely, ok.

 

Now, to the topic at hand. I think the Franch govt. has attempted something that is very normal from the typical Gaalo perspectives. Allah (sw) said, that Gaalo will never be acceptable for us (Muslims) until we follow their infidelity/gaalnimo. So, this problem will always be there as long the Muslims are under their authority. Their animosity towards the Muslims is clear, and its upto the Muslims now to embark upon the teachings of their religion and never compromise anything for the Franch.

[Strawberry_Xu]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

xu,

 

You agree with the Gaalo, right? Yeah, I could see that from your unveiled hair. Please, go and take your hijaab first, then express your views politely, ok.

Good grief, this is taking laziness to a whole new level. Did you even read what I said?

 

Agreeing with Gaalo? All I said was that it's a good thing for Imams to speak the language of the country they're preaching in, for the benefit of muslims who don't speak Arabic, so that they too will receive the Islamic guidance they need.

 

Xu, freedom of religion shouldn't be regulated. The MPs have no business defining what means what in Islam. When you impose borders on what you as a Muslim can and can't do, it's only a matter of time before they decide Friday prayers are inappropriate and shouldn't be held at all.

Underdog, I think you misunderstand me, when I said:

 

What I mean is, unless the MPs drafting the terms defining radicalism are widely respected and learned Imams or muslim scholars, they have no business interfering with religion

I pretty much said the same thing as you. The MPs trying to redefine Islam for us, are not experienced Muslim scholars or Imams, and thus would not know what the difference is between radicalism and true Islam, or even have any educated perspective on Islam. It's the lack of knowledge that I'm addressing. If you read the rest of my post properly, you will find that I'm actually agreeing with you. Like I said, it scares me to see these people feeding into the paranoia that's so rampant after 9/11, using us Muslims as diversions from their own sordid affairs.

 

It always starts with one seemingly insignificant law, before you know, millions of people are subjected to a law no other religion has to adhere to.

 

Also it doesn't matter whether the person I agree with is Gaal or not. If it were a French muslim proposing state interference into our religion (or any religion), I'd still be against it.

 

And Alle-Ubaahne brother, don't make such strong assumptions about people you've never met or even ever spoken to. It's a vile ignorant habit that I'm sure is beneath you. :rolleyes:

[Taqwa]

You agree with the Gaalo, right? Yeah, I could see that from your unveiled hair. Please, go and take your hijaab first, then express your views politely, ok.

Sxb I'll reply in Somali since English is not something that you seem to get. Inaar raganimo yeelo oo inanta sii ixtiraam leeh ugo jawab amba iska amuus. Anigaah ku odhan kariin Hijab xidho iska dhaaf adigu. Your neither her father or husband. There are Islamic etiquette's that you should implement and I say this out of complete respect sxb.

[Passion_4_Fashion]

^^^qufka muslimka uma sheegi karo miyaa walaashiis ama walaalkiis waxa uu ku qaldan yahay? ......in kastoo Xu avatarkeeda laga ogaani karin iney tahay quf xijaab qaata.

[bilan]

wow, some people really need to read before they hit the reply button,and take a lesson about islam before they preach :mad: .

no one can deny importance of arabic, but i always wonder what is the point of preaching if people can not understand you, so it is good if imams can speak the language of the country they live in, but government should not appoint,maybe some independent muslim scholars because there should be some sort of control over imams,some people do not know much about the religion and they give advice.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Silence:

quote:You agree with the Gaalo, right? Yeah, I could see that from your unveiled hair. Please, go and take your hijaab first, then express your views politely, ok.

Sxb I'll reply in Somali since English is not something that you seem to get. Inaar raganimo yeelo oo inanta sii ixtiraam leeh ugo jawab amba iska amuus. Anigaah ku odhan kariin Hijab xidho iska dhaaf adigu. Your neither her father or husband. There are Islamic etiquette's that you should implement and I say this out of complete respect sxb.

Yeah, that is right, you definately said this out of complete ignorance. Also, your inferrence of me knowing nothing about English is definately right, as well. So, now tell me what is your next advocacy... Gaalo rights? or Western Democracy?

 

Xu,

 

Does it hurt if your brother disagrees your inappropriate iconic appearance over the screen, which may reflect on you? By the way, how come you know the Gaalo langauge but Arabic, which is the language of the Quran? Tell me why you know the Gaalo language in the first place. Cajiib, these people have no idea how far they crossed the boundaries!

 

:confused:

[- Femme -]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Here we go again.

[Taqwa]

Alle-ubaahne,

 

This wont end so my appology inaar. What I'm appologising for, Ilahaay ba oog lakiin if it make's you feel better, I was obviously wrong.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Silence:

Alle-ubaahne,

 

This wont end so my appology inaar. What I'm appologising for, Ilahaay ba oog lakiin if it make's you feel better, I was obviously wrong.

Why apologize me for nothing? I did question that girls' support of the French imposition of regulations against Muslims, and you suddenly jumped onto me by being rude and impolite. Please, let me be free for my views against the French Govt. and its supporters, Ok. I am here to critic everyone on the bases of my believes and religious adherences. If you side with the french Govt. then welcome and face my wrath, but don't accuse me of my personal assessments on others.

[Strawberry_Xu]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

Xu,

 

Does it hurt if your brother disagrees your inappropriate iconic appearance over the screen, which may reflect on you? By the way, how come you know the Gaalo langauge but Arabic, which is the language of the Quran? Tell me why you know the Gaalo language in the first place. Cajiib, these people have no idea how far they crossed the boundaries!

 

:confused:

Good grief man, the point is that avatars have nothing to do with the thread topic or the validity of my opinion. It's like you're some bad lawyer who knows the only way he can make his case, is to discredit the witness in any way he can, instead of directly challenging what that person is saying. So far I've mostly agreed with you, yet you insist that I did not. Weird. :eek:

 

Is knowing the gaalo language a crime?? I had to learn it, considering I grew up here. I've never had the opportunity to meet many Somali or Arabic people. However I'm trying to learn Arabic, insha-allah I'll master it one day.

 

However, your pompous dismissive attitude is exactly the kind of behaviour that makes people scared of Islam. Instead of making our religion open and inclusive, you seem to have this "well you should learn Arabic, tough luck!" type of viewpoint. That's really great for pulling all the de-Islamised youth back to the right path.

 

It's a really good thing not all imams think like you.

 

I did question that girls'

support

of the French imposition of regulations against Muslims

You shouldn't comment before actually reading what people post. I'm not going to repeat myself again. Read my previous post, for goodness.

 

But I have to admit, post-9/11 muslim communities have become more closed in response to the attacks on their religion. Maybe that's the wrong way of going about things. All this mystery surrounding Islam allows the ones who do speak out, to spread their anti-Islam propaganda. Maybe we should have a real dialogue, preach in the local language to show them the true face of Islam, and hopefully this will allow more people to become drawn to Islam.

[NGONGE]

^^^^ It would be easier if you tried to blow on a burst balloon, dear. The powers that be in SOL these days have seen fit to put some hurdles and obstacles in our way so as to improve our cyber fitness. When faced with one of these, don’t try to reason, just jump, skip or walk right through it. :cool:

 

As for the topic,

To speak the language of the land is a good idea. To preach in a language your “congregation†understands is even a better idea. There are many mosques that have their own languages. I’ve been to a few where the Imam preaches in Urdu during Jumca prayers (my Urdu is great these days). It also makes Islam like some sort of Masonic sect, hidden and unapproachable!

 

Of course, my agreement with this idea does not extend to the French government’s plan to dictate to Muslims how to conduct their own affairs. That is government interference and is laughable in a country that claims to be a secular nation.