Sunnis vs. Shi'ites vs. Other?

[Kowneyn]

Here is a link to the book:

 

http://asmar.perso.ch/wahhabies/htm/spy1.htm

[Hibo]

thanks both of you. well bro konwayn i assume that you read some of the muxamad c/wahaab's books, have you seen anything wrong with it. so far i read only "fatxi al_majiid" and he does not even use his personal thoughts so much, he uses verses of the qur'aan and hadiith. so what is that you are against? and do you think islamicly it is ok to ask prophet(PPUH) or good people like sheikh jaylaani etc help?

[Kowneyn]

Bulo:

 

He uses the quraan and tradition to cause mischief to create confusion and division among muslims. The rasuul scws said he feared for us the misguidance of the likes of this man who use the quraan out of context to cause mischief and dissension.

 

Bulo...If u want to understand wahhabism at its core read the confession of the shaitan who mentored him.

 

I suggest also to stop reading Abdul-Wahhab for all the four madhabs of the sunnaah rejected and actually pronounced him as Kaaffir...even the learned men in his family (his brother and father) issued fatwa calling him a heretic and a rebellious soul. He was captured and tried by the khalifat, then executed and worse his body was not even burried with the rest of the muslims because despite discussion and persuasion he refused to return to the fold of islaam. Like him all those who continue on his course will be cleansed off from the ummaah inshallaah.

 

Now if all the evidence at hand doesnt create a deep revulsion and disgust with Wahhaabism as a creed deep down in your soul. Then perhaps your soul has found the correct spirit in marriage and I need not say more. My effort is for those who have been taken in an aware but whose soul will be revulsed and stirred to seek the sublime and true spirit of islaam once evidence is given. The staunch once will not be changed by any evidence or persuasion because there soul found its mate.

 

Now regarding wether its appropriate to ask other than Allaah for help!!! the answer is a resounding NOOOOOO!!! The problem here lies when pple misunderstand the islamic concept of Tawassul "way of approach" and Shifaaca or "intercession" to/with Allaah.

 

When Adam cs was created all the angels were ordered to prostrate themselves to him. This test exposed the evil jinn ibleys who was with the angels but not one of them. He refused because of his arrogance claiming he was better than Adam, thus fooling himself and forgetting that ALLAH knows best.

 

Was Allaah asking for Adam to be worshipped, instead of him? off course not, Adam was only away or an approach to ALLAAH (after all he breathed in him his own spirit) and by prostrating to him they were in the big picture only prostrating to ALLAAH. But the evil ibleys claimed ALLAAH has asked him to commit shirk but he wished to worship none but ALLAAH...his logic of course was clouded by his arrogance.

 

So for one to ask those closer to ALLAAH the rasuul scws, the awliya and salaaxin to intercede for them is not shirk but the correct wasila or road to ALLAAH.

 

So if you have believed (imaan) and performed the good work in accordance with this believe (camal saalax) and ur at Allaah's door you must ask for the key to his mercy; similarly if you seek forgiveness or provisions in this world and hereafter this is the road. The key is first and foremost Muhammad scws and second those with him and of him and the way to ask him to intercede is to send Sallaawat on him.

 

Adam cs knew instinctually the approach to ALLAAH was through Muhammed scws when he noted the Shahaada (la illaaha illa Allaah, Muxammadun rasuulullaah) written on the Allaah's throne. His wise insight got him Allaah's forgiveness and ALLAAH said he would definitely forgive All who approached him through his beloved and obedient rasuul scws.

 

Now Mr Macruuf as a typical person drunk with wahhaabi spirits (the favorite drink of the soul inclined to hypocrisy) he is employing rhetoric to discuss things beyond his reach and understanding---He mentioned the mawliid for example as bidca or innovation.

 

Because they are always chasing away pple from the wise therefore correct way to ALLAAH the staunch Wahhabis deserves to be labelled shaidan-gadheere...little wisdom but too arrogant.

 

The Mawliid is basically the collective gathering of muslims to send sallaawat upon the rasuul, ussually during fridays. The prophet scws said to send sallaawat upon him and in particularly on friday its nights and days...Because on that day he scws hears us directly and will intercede with ALLAAH for us. Why this day? u might ask? if u recall the day of reckoning is on a friday which is the day the rasuul scws will intercede for us and therefore by sending sallaawats upon the rasuul on friday we will be asking him to intercede for us on that day. Lucky are those who collectively gather in whatever form to send sallawaats to the rasuul scws on this blessed day and night. The once who bad mouth this blessed action which is firmly grounded in Islam might as well be sad now cause certainly they will face gloom on the day of reckoning when they realize that there evil souls are too arrogant to ask for the shafaaca on that day.

 

Kowneyn Al-Baqir

[Hibo]

well bro konwayn, i can not call him sheikh c/wahaab kaafir because i'm sure 100% he was better and closer to alaah. why do you have to ask intercede. it is understandable that saxaaba asked prophet to ask Alaah forgiveness for them cause he was alive, but he is dead know. about the mowliid, did the prophet celebrated his birthday, if he did then it is ok, but if he did not is not that gonna be bidca. what do you think about ibn tayyima? salaamaat

 

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Kowneyn:

 

Duqa, I read that book you mentioned about being written about the Sheekha. But, it is really a whole bunch of fabricated thing. I am sure. It was written by some suufi Pakistani who really abhored that maskiin Sheekh. We can't really debate about this issue, because we too darn well know who is really on the suna or not. Again, answer this question, clearly, "Do you believe that suufis are really following the Prophet's way--the suna? Answer to that questions, as explicitly as you can. Don't tell me some suufis are or do this or that, as long as they claim to be suufi is enough for me. And what I had seen about suufis or read about them is really off the hook, really un-Islamic.

 

Buula:

 

Try to relax. As I told they are mad at that maskiin Sheekh because he advised the first Sacuudi king at that time to not allow the folks like suufis to worship at the Prophet's masaajid. Asking for help--not Allaah--but the Prophet. God forbid! They were all making these un-suna practices, including the mawliid.

_______________

 

Macsalaama!!

[Yusufaddie]

Salaam miskeen, tasawwuff is important just as how you see knowledge is. i think you are not aware what tasawwuf is and are blinded by deviant sufis. i have met deviant salafis as well who make takfir on others even though the Nabi S said not to. so in each group we have deviant. the worst thing to do is blame the entire group because of a few salafis. if i was that ignorant i would have said that salfis are part of a cult because of how they act here in the caribbean, however alhamdulilah i know better.

Let me shortly try to explain tasawwuf. Remember when Allah said "Even if you have an atom's weight of pride in your heart you will never enter jannah" well i ask you this, HOW DO WE RID OURSELF OF PRIDE? and that is tasawwuf- the acquisition of internal knowledge to please our lord. the reson why we have many deviants i can understand, did you grow up as a muslim? If not i'm sure you would remmeber that glowing feeling iside when you first leared about Allah. Wallahi it is a very Very good feeling that reverts like myself have. and it is common in everybody that accepts islam. again it is such a feeling that i can't explain. now in this feeling every convert thinks of himself as special and hand selected. this same feeling is felt by the murid. this is why it is important at the beginning to have a good sheikh. Unlike my cousin when he accepted islam an ansar cult man was teaching him islam and he thought that was islam until he learned better. if a murid gets learns from a sheikh who is deviant he might become so attached to him that even when he realisees the sheikh is deviant he does not want to change. this is call blind following and it is haraam and a bid'ah. a salafi sheikh and i were talking on common ground and he told me ythat salfis refer to tasawwuf as hawa, however i told him that tasawwuf is more than just your hawa. the best site i've seen that explains tasawwuf is http://islaam.org/ please read it up and see if it goes against our aqeedah

salaams

[Hibo]

Asalaamu Calaykum Wr Wb all,

 

To be honest i have not read most of this thread, but would just like to make a quick comment in regards to the post by KOWEYN.

 

Brother, unless you have proofs that Shaykh Muhammed ibn Abdulwahab was a deviant, keep your comments to yourself for on the Day of Judgement you will be questioned. I wonder, have you truly read any of his books? Its funny to notice that when you say that to people they either respond No, or yes but they cannot pick out any deviation. We all know sufis are not very fond of the shaykh, and im sure most of us know its because he put an end to their practises of shirk (e.g grave worshipping,even if a little).

 

KOWEYN, you wrote that all the four madhabs regard the Shaykh as a deviant, OK PROOVE IT!!! Of course the proof must be from reliable sources. And dont even say the four imams of the four schools of thoughts regarded him as a devaint since they came hundreds of years before the shaykh.

 

The tasawuf of Islam and that described by deviant sufis (i will not say all sufis are deviant, Allah knows best) have two seperate meanings.

 

May Allah have mercy on the scholars of this religion and cleanse them of the lies said about them. Amiin.

 

[This message has been edited by Rahiima_as-Somaali (edited 03-17-2002).]

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

this very important for all of us to understand the true ;firqa; in islam,I am sure there is alot of argument about which one of these firqa is right!!! I do not have much knowledge about firqa and how they came on being but just let shed some light on one main thing which is in my point of view very important. sice the prophet b.b.u.h died there the was disagreement about to form a khalifa after him-I do not want to go into details now- in one way or another abuu bakar manage to fill the vacuum but alot of the sahabs were not bless by this,among them the cousin of prophet p.b.u.h,ali his group believed that the khlifa was their right and abuu bakar and another grabe it by force, here muslims divided themselves into two main groups namely sunis and shi'ites.then from here the sunis break up into many group which is in fact not a firqas but mathahib and it very important to undersatand the diffrence between them.all these mathahib were created as result of political factor.when the umawiin came to power they used to choose only those imaams who bless.......to be continue

[Yusufaddie]

Salaam sis Rahima you should edit your post where you said all sufis dislike the sheikh because he stopped the grave worshipping, i'm sorry but this is an ignorant statement and it does not help us to be unified. I am Sufi and grave worship is haraam. i revere sh. Wahab it is just that i feel sorry for him how he was used as a political tool then casted out, which i find not much peoplereally care about now even though they say they love him and follow him.

Sayfullah i don't think you are fully aware of how the Shi'a sect started. it did not start when Ali refused bayat in fact if Shi'a started there the fact that he gave bayah to Abu Bakr R after six months would incline that shi'a should join the sunnis however this is not how shia was formed.

[Khayr]

Salamz,

Would you pray behind an Imam at a masjid that was Shia? Salafi? Naqshabandi? Would you go a jummah to another madhab lead masjid?

 

You know sometimes when I'm reading a hadith and the prophet (salallahu caliyhe wasalama) shows in his life that he prayed differently, did things differently, was flexible with the Sahaba etc. If he (salallahu caliyhe wasalama)wasn't narrow in his life and dealings with his sahabi and there have been so many interpretations regarding his sunnah and its methodologies, then what Alim has a right to say that one aspect of the Sunnah is right and others are to be reject (b/c they don't understant it!!!)

 

Subhanallah

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

salaam to all.

......continoued from my last post

I think the division of moslims began well before the death of our prophet p.b.u.h,if we just look back last days of prophet's life was very insense and division emerge from the moslim around him, one of most important day was the thursday when prophet ordered his companion to bring aletter and pen inorder to writte for them a book which he descripe as guidance,( lann tathluu ba'adah) when some of tried to ring the letter other prevent it saying that the rasuul was in state of absentminded,what a extraordinary disagreement. this is the day ibnu abaas refer it as the day of sadness he use to cry untill his beard get wet as aresult of tears.this day the sahaba divided themselves into two main groups one supporting the prophet and another supoorting omar binu khataab, to me the refusal of this book represent a knowledge of some sahaba that prophet may crown ali as moslim khlifa after him,that is why they refused it.

all that happened in front of prophet!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone who want to know how things get changed after prophet's death have to read the history of the hasaba,they killed each other and hatred florish, sadness the family and children of the prophet did not get the respect and kindness they deserve, their right was denied. for more just lick www.ahlul-bayit.com

to be countinoue...............

[salmaan]

asc wr wbr

dear brothers and sisters in islam,

This is very important issue. What do u do when u have something very important to learn because u will have ur degree exam? do u base ur answers on the day of the exam on i think or u learn it well b4 the day. Don't think if u don't know study it please for ur own sake. The 73 groups that propohet of allah scw talked about are all muslims and majority of them have already been seen. this is not about names but about believes. ask urself what do u believe? in this hadeeth a companion of the messenger of allah asked the messenger pbuh which group is right? the prophet pbuh replied those who follow what i am on(sunnah) and my companions. we all have to follow the sahaaba. if u don't follow them u will fail ur exam. don't follow anyone else but the messenger of allah pbuh and the sahaabah. Secondly spend at least one hour of ur day on studying islam from reliable sources. Also read the quran if u don't know how to read invest some of ur time u will benefit from it. it's the speach of allah.

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar:

Ah, I am not even a 'wadaad,' so the possiblity of considering me to be a Gardheere or Surwaalgaab is therefore closed.