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Here is a proof of Allah's existence: don't bother

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In the name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Gracious


Brothers and sisters,


We see from time to time some debates that are surfacing on this forum concerning the existence of our Creator. We see that some brothers and sisters try to prove His existence, while other confused souls maintain that there is none. Since the atheistic sickness is new to us, after mostly coming into contact with such philosophies only recently as immigrants, it is not always obvious how to deal with. This article is not about the “belief†of atheism itself, but about the position of Islam on arguing with atheistic criminals (yep! It’s a crime) regarding the existence of our Creator. By doing so, I hope to clarify the issue and in the process spare you a valuable time you’d otherwise have wasted trying to convince these deniers.


Central to the understanding of the position of Islam concerning the existence of Allah, is an event that took place before our creation as human beings while we were in the spiritual state as spirits (and not yet physically assigned to a body). Here is how Allah (swt) narrated that event to us:


“When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their seed, and made them testify against themselves, (saying): ‘Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?’- They said: ‘Yea! We do testify!’ (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: ‘Of this we were unaware’: Or lest ye should say: ‘Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?’†(7:172-173)


To sum up, on that day, Allah had gathered all the spirits of mankind and made them witness His Supremacy and Lordship, and made them testify against themselves by posing the question “Am I not your Lord?†and we have all in our pre-earthly life conceded that indeed Allah is the Lord of the Worlds. Allah continued to press on, so it was clear to everyone and none would be able to say on the Day of Rising “Of this we were unaware.†Or other excuses of blaming societal factors and family upbringing, which they couldn’t control and conditioned them.


This has another important meaning and clearly indicates that it is within man’s nature to intrinsically recognise his Lord, and that is why children are born upon the state of tawxiid (fitrah). Allah is the Most Just and would not burden man with the recognition of His Lordship without placing him in an advantageous position by creating him in a way which makes us inherently “instinctive creatures of worship.†As the verse “I have only created jinns and men, that they may worship Me.†(51:56) states very clearly. And when Allah gathers them on the Day of Rising, His existence will not be questioned and He will speak to them saying:


“‘O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you apostles from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?’ They will say: ‘We bear witness against ourselves.’ It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith.†(6:130)


Therefore we don’t need to prove, neither to ourselves nor to anyone else, that Allah exists, because we’re inclined to know that within ourselves. That is why even the Messengers are not sent to prove Allah’s existence, but only to call the people “to worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.†(98:5). Furthermore, Allah says “Not a Messenger did We send before thee without this inspiration sent by Us to him: that there is no god but I; therefore worship and serve Me (alone)†(21:25). The tone of the Messengers and the style of their message and mission are unmistakeable as we have seen in the Qur’aan, just consider it when Allah says:


“We only send the Messengers to give Glad Tidings and to give warnings: But the unbelievers dispute with vain argument, in order therewith to weaken the truth, and they treat My Signs as a jest, as also the fact that they are warned! And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.†(18:56-57)


“Their Messengers said: ‘Is there a doubt about Allah, The Creator of the heavens and the earth? It is He Who invites you, in order that He may forgive you your sins and give you respite for a term appointed!’ They said: ‘Ah! ye are no more than human, like ourselves! Ye wish to turn us away from the (gods) our fathers used to worship: then bring us some clear authority.’ Their Messengers said to them: ‘True, we are human like yourselves, but Allah doth grant His grace to such of his servants as He pleases. It is not for us to bring you an authority except as Allah permits. And on Allah let all men of faith put their trust.’†(14:10-11)


Yes, it is true that Allah (sw) sent many signs with His “Messengers to their (respective) peoples, and they came to them with Clear Signs:†(30:47), but ask yourselves this; were these signs to prove Allah’s existence or to prove the authenticity of His Messengers’ claims, that they were truly sent by the Lord? In fact their signs is are Allah’s signs, but His signs are everywhere and we are encouraged to reflect on them, so to increase our recognition through His miraculous creations. There are numerous examples of such encouragements in the Glorious Qur’aan where Allah challenges us to reflect on His signs around us (which we always seem to forget or ignore), such as:


“It is Allah Who made cattle for you, that ye may use some for riding and some for food; And there are (other) advantages in them for you (besides); that ye may through them attain to any need (there may be) in your hearts; and on them and on ships ye are carried. And He shows you (always) His Signs: then which of the Signs of Allah will ye deny?†(40:79-81)


“It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until thou seest rain-drops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of his servants as He wills behold, they do rejoice!-†(30:48)


There was also the story of Moses (cs) when he was sent to pharaoh, who, let along denying Allah’s existence, proclaimed for himself to be the lord saying "I am your Lord, Most High"! (79:24). Moses (cs) went to him and said “O Pharaoh! I am an apostle from the Lord of the worlds†(7:104) "And that I guide thee to thy Lord, so thou shouldst fear Him" (79:19), but he was made of "A sorcerer, or one possessed!" (51:39).


Pharaoh denied the existence of such a “Lord of the worlds†and tried to use wealth, sorcery and the scientific technology of his time (much like today’s deniers) to fool his people and make mockery of Moses (cs). His sarcasm (consciously boasting with what seemed to him a materialistic superiority, much like today’s ‘scientism’ or ‘scientific materialism’) went as far as saying to his chiefs; “O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!†(28:38). However Moses (cs) didn’t bother with trying to prove Allah’s existence, instead he looked him in the eyes and addressed him as follows (and this is how we should address deniers):


“Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!†(17:102).


So trying to prove the existence of the Creator is not part of the prophetic message, and definitely not their tradition, therefore as our teachers, it is important that we follow the teachings of their mission. They came and taught us how to worship and invite others to the Way of Allah, and their way was not to indulge in vague arguments to prove Allah’s existence, for trust me, if there was any benefits for doing so, Allah would have inspired them to do so.


Therefore the shocking conclusion that I’m presenting here is that, however well we mean, there is no benefits and rewards for us to involve ourselves with their, what Allah called “vain argumentsâ€! Most definitely we have to invite them to the Way of Allah, but it should be in the legislative spirit of the Way of Allah.


We know that there are many great academic scientists and well-known professors, with superior knowledge and understanding of all the branches of sciences compared to the amateurs on this forum, who embraced Islam. Not because someone could prove to them the existence of Allah scientifically (if material evidence proves material case, only spiritual evidence proves spiritual case), but because they recognised first and foremost Allah’s Lordship within themselves. And ofcourse they knew the fictive side of scientism and its limitations far better than our deniers on this forum. So guys, there will be no love-loss between us if you packed in and moved your circus somewhere else, but personally, I honestly prefer you stayed here!


The deniers on SOL don’t matter anyway, as fresh refugees whom not long ago were barefooted just like us and by accidentally were exposed to Bertrand Russell and Jean-Paul Sartre, to mention only a two of filth-filled foremost influential contemporary philosophers on either side of the channel, and as a consequence of their lack of spiritual intelligence and with no one to protect them, fell victim to these bad wolves like a wounded prey. Their mistake, and still many more face that problem, is the misunderstanding about the extent to which human intellect is capable to “knowâ€. Often we see people labelling themselves as “freethinkers†and yet are absolutely clueless about where what they are saying actually comes from. Especially on a forum like this where everyone can express their thoughts freely, I think there is a need for in depth understanding of the Islamic position and perspective of freedom of thought. The prerequisites, the limits, the responsibilities and the consequences of freedom of thought are a must to understand for every Muslim. I hope someone could present to us in an article the freedom of thought and Islam, so we may benefit. If not, I may try, but will probably be not as good.


I ask forgiveness for the undoubtedly many mistakes I’ve made, and I’ll appreciate whenever pointed to me.





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Originally posted by Shams-ud-Din:

In the name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Gracious


Brothers and sisters,


This article is not about the “belief†of atheism itself, but about the position of Islam on arguing with atheistic criminals (yep! It’s a crime) regarding the existence of our Creator.



Atheists are criminals? Is this mean, if it was up to you, you would incarcerate them like criminals :confused:


What makes them criminals? Who have they wronged?


This is news to me, I thought atheist were disbelievers in God and nothing more. If there is more to atheism then that let me know.

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Assalamu Alaikum,


There is no point in giving them any proofs honestly..the Noble Qur'an is enough of a proof! A person who does not believe in Allah (SWT) should ponder over the creation of mankind, the universe, the passing away of life of the world and with an open mind ask themselves "what's really the purpose of life?"


Allah, the Exalted, says "I exhort you to one (thing) only: that you stand up for Allah's sake in pairs and singly,-and reflect (within yourselves the life history of Prophet (saw)'" (34:46)


"Verily! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understandings. Those who remember Allah (always, and in prayers) standing, sitting, and lying down on thier sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): "Our Rubb! You have not created (all) this without a purpose, glory to You! (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners)" (3:190, 191)


"Do they not look at the camels, how they are created? And at the mountains, how they are rooted (and fixed firm)? And at the earth, how it is spread out? So remind them (O Muhammad (saw), you are only a one who reminds." (88:17-21)


May Allah (SWT) guide us all to the right path (Ameen)




BTW-good post brother/sister Shams-u-deen (sorry if I got the spelling of your nick wrong)

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originally posted by secod_badne

What makes them criminals? Who have they wronged?

Brother, they committed the crime of disbelief by denying Allah's rights over His creation; thereby wronging THEMSEVES and their punishments lies with Allah who has prepared for them an everlasting abode which is beyond human imaginations of pain, suffering and misery. I have no say in here except to ask you guys:


What is to laugh about???


P.S. Proud_Muslimah jazaakal-Laah for your complimenting post, you're totally right!

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In Islam - It is(also) a crime to wrong your ownself.


and in the Yawmal-Qiyamah, even your fingers will speak and be a witness for or against you.



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Salamu Calaykum


The Believers are those who say we hear and we obey, to the comandments of their Lord.


BarakaAllah fik akhi fi Islam, indeed you have spoken on the Haq, may Allah forgive us all and guide us to his right path/aamiin


Insha Allah this is something for those who disbelieve and laugh at the believers


Surah Al-Mutaffifin

34 But this Day (the Day of Resurrection) those who believe will laugh at the disbelievers


35 On (high) thrones, looking (at all things).


36 Are not the disbelievers paid (fully) for what they used to do?

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Ù‚Ùلْ يَا أَيّÙهَا الْكَاÙÙرÙونَ


Say (O Muhammad - Peace be upon him - to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!


لَا أَعْبÙد٠مَا تَعْبÙدÙونَ


"I worship not that which you worship,


وَلَا أَنتÙمْ عَابÙدÙونَ مَا أَعْبÙدÙ


"Nor will you worship that which I worship.


وَلَاأَنَا عَابÙدٌ مَّا عَبَدتّÙمْ


"And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.


وَلَا أَنتÙمْ عَابÙدÙونَ مَا أَعْبÙدÙ


"Nor will you worship that which I worship.




"To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islâmic Monotheism)."



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Proofs of the Existence of Allah


Mankind, in general, has maintained a belief in the existence of the Creator of the Universe since time immemorial. The duty of the prophets of Allah was not so much to inform their people of Allah's existence as to warn them against associating others with Him, and to teach them how to serve Him. "Their messengers said, 'Is there any doubt concerning Allah, the originator of the Heavens and the Earth?'" [Qur'an, 14:10]


The early Muslim scholars did not even have to address the issue of the Existence of God, for it was a blatantly obvious fact which nobody questioned. It was only around the fourth century after "hijrah" (Prophet's migration to Medina), when people's doctrine started being infiltrated with atheism and permeated by unbelief, that the scholars had to address the issue.


The existence of Allah is established by various categories of proofs, which may be conveniently classified under four categories.


1. Scriptural evidence


The major religions of the world have scriptures which teach the existence of the Creator. In particular, the Qur'an, the only revealed book which has remained totally intact and preserved, establishes the existence of Allah by compelling rational arguments, while at the same time serving as an enduring miracle testifying to His reality. It decisively establishes His uniqueness and non-resemblance to creation, and emphasizes that worship is only for Him.


2. The proof of "fitrah" (natural inborn belief in Allah)


As already mentioned, the human being has an inherent and inborn recognition of his Creator. This is a consequence of a pledge which Allah took from the soul of every one of us before we came into this world: "And [remember], when your Lord took from the children of Adam, their children behind them, and made them testify over their own selves, [saying to them], 'Am I not your Lord?' They said, 'Yea.'" [Qur'an, 7:172]


Every human being is born with this natural disposition, which is called "fitrah". Abu Hurayrah has reported that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, "Every child is born upon fitrah, then it is his parents who make him Jewish, or Christian, or Magian (Zoroastrian), just as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal; do you find it mutilated?" [bukhari]


But, this "fitrah" sometimes becomes latent, especially when the human being is in a corrupt and spiritually degenerate environment which is devoid of reminder and exhortation towards the Lord. The "fitrah" surfaces, however, in times of calamity and distress. How many avowed atheists find themselves raising their hands to the skies in supplication when in affliction! And how do the staunch unbelievers cry out for deliverance when they are faced with death!


"[Allah] it is who causes you to travel over land and sea; until, when you are in the ships, and they sail with [their passengers] with a fair breeze, and they are glad therein, a tempestuous wind reaches them, waves are coming at them from everywhere, and they think that they are overwhelmed therein; [then] they call to Allah, making their faith pure for Him [alone], 'If You save us from this, we will surely be among the thankful!'" [Qur'an, 10:22] Yet, this sincerity is often short-lived. "Then, when He saves them, behold, they rebel upon the earth wrongfully." [Qur'an, 10:23]


Mankind is all too apt, during the course of his daily life of comfort and enjoyment, to forget his Lord. "And when some trauma touches man, he calls to his Lord, turning repentant to Him. Then, when He grants him a favor from Himself, he forgets that for which he called to Him before, and sets up partners to Allah." [Qur'an, 39:8]


It is to awaken and alert this "fitrah" that Allah, in His mercy and wisdom, sent Messengers to remind people of their true religion, and to direct them towards fulfilling their commission of serving their Lord. Allah has ordered His prophet to proclaim, "O mankind! If you are in [any] doubt regarding my religion, then [know that] I do not worship those whom you worship besides Allah, but I worship Allah Who will take your souls." [Qur'an, 10:104]


The specific mention of death here drives home the stark reality, which even the pagans must concede to when faced with the glaring, intuitive evidence, that Allah alone causes death. The rational individual, then, should prepare for this inevitability by responding to his Lord. Islam is merely a hearkening by man to his nature, an acceptance of that which is naturally good and intuitively right. "So, set your face toward the religion in uprightness. That is the "fitrah" of Allah, upon which He has created mankind. Let there be no changing of Allah's creation." [Qur'an, 30:30]


There are others who stubbornly resist this truth and reject Allah's message when it is presented before them, although they are well aware of its veracity. This was the attitude of Pharaoh and his supporters, and its consequences are severe, in this world and the Hereafter: "They rejected [Our signs], although their own souls were convinced of their truth, [and this they did] out of iniquity and arrogance. See, then, what was the sequel for those who cause corruption!" [Qur'an, 27:14]


Yet, even hardened deniers who stand in the way of truth and resist it may grab hold of it at the last moment, before it is too late, for on account of the surfacing of the "fitrah", a disbeliever who is faced with death on the battlefield may suddenly embrace Islam. The Muslim who fights in jihad will similarly be exposed to death frequently, thus enhancing and sharpening his awareness of Allah.


3. Rational proof


It is intuitively obvious, and confirmed by science, that the universe had a beginning. Every action requires a doer, and thus the existence of creation necessarily indicates the existence of the Creator. Allah appeals to the human mind and rationality in the Qur'an, saying, (translated), "Were they created from nothing, or are they [themselves] the creators?" [Qur'an, 52:35]. Quite obviously, we have been created, and brought into existence after being non-existent, and it is also plain that we do not create ourselves.


A few years ago, the sands in the "Rub' al-Khaali" desert (the Empty Quarter) were blown away by a windstorm to reveal the ruins of a city that had been covered by the sands. Scientists began to examine the contents of the city to try to determine the period in which it had been built. Nobody among the archaeologists or others even suggested that this city could have appeared as a result of the natural actions of the wind, rain, heat and cold, and not by the actions of man. If anyone had suggested such a thing, people would have regarded him as crazy and would have taken pity on him. So how about if someone had said that this city was formed by the air from nothing in the far distant past, then it settled on the earth?


Having recognized the necessity of the existence of a Creator, one then realizes that there can only be one Creator. "If there were in [the heavens and the earth] gods other than Allah, [the heavens and earth] would surely have been disordered." [Qur'an, 21:22] "Allah has not taken a son, nor is there any god with Him, for in that case, each god would assuredly have championed that which he created, and some of them would surely have overcome others. Glorified be Allah above that which they allege!" [Qur'an, 23:91] Further, this one and only Creator cannot possibly resemble creation. "Is, then, He Who creates, like he who does not create? Do you not reflect?" [Qur'an, 16:17]


4. Perceptual experience


We witness and experience the answering of prayers, and this in itself indicates the existence of Allah. Allah says, "When you sought help of your Lord, and He answered you." [Qur'an, 8:9] Bukhari and Muslim have both narrated the "hadeeth" (Prophet's saying) in which a bedouin asked the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) to pray for rain, since crops were perishing and people were starving. The prophet prayed to Allah for rain, and almost immediately clouds began to gather and it began raining heavily. Also in this category of evidence are the miracles which people witness at the hands of their prophets, including the splitting of the moon by Muhammad (PBUH), and the enduring miracle of the Qur'an.


Finally, we should bear in mind that abundant as the proofs may be, they are only of avail to those who honestly and sincerely search for the truth. As for those obdurate ones who simply refuse to believe, they will not cease their idle disputation. "And they say, 'Our hearts are in a covering from that to which you call us, and in our ears is a deafness, and between us and you is a veil, so act, we [also] are acting." [Qur'an, 41:5] "Those against whom the decree of your Lord has been verified, will not believe, although every sign should come to them, until they see the painful punishment." [Qur'an, 10:96-97]





1-"Al-Jumu`ah" magazine by Abu'l-Hasan


2- Islamic Creed Vol. 1, Belief in Allah In the Light of the Qur’an and Sunnah By: Umar S. al-Ashqar



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The "fitrah" surfaces, however, in times of calamity and distress. How many avowed atheists find themselves raising their hands to the skies in supplication when in affliction! And how do the staunch unbelievers cry out for deliverance when they are faced with death!

To illustrate the above quote; remember this?


When the tyrant Pharaoh (probably Nemesis II) was chasing Muusa (cs) and Bani Isra’iil in the middle of the separated sea, and saw that death was inevitable, even he, the worst enemy of Allah (swt) in his time who -let alone denying Allah's existence- claimed divinity for himself has stated the following as Allah informed us in the Qur’aan:


“I believe that there is no God but He in Whom the Bani Isra’iil believe and I am of the Muslimuun†(10:90).


This, much to the annoyance of the head of the angels, Jibriil (cs), who would later confess to our beloved Prophet (cs):


“O Muhammad! If you could have seen me when I took the mud from the sea and shoved it into his mouth, fearing that the mercy of Allah (swt) might save him.†(As narrated by Ibn Cabbaas (rc) and reported in the sunan Tirmidi).


I can understand that the nature of the calamity and the horrendous death faced that particular Pharaoh was unprecedented, but, nevertheless, all deniers face the same horror and shame in their even seemingly peaceful beds when death is near. However, to get stuffed with the salty mud from the bottom of the sea through your throat by the biggest creature ever created in the heavens and earth (known to us), is for us at this stage quite an unimaginable sight!


This means they know all along, and it is a waste of time to debate the subject with them, in a matter becoming of non-distinguishable between us and those who may jump (mostly other way around) on the same wagon defending their biblical doctrines of creatio ex nihilo or whatever, which will prevent us from performing our more important duties. Don't get me wrong, because I'm not opposing in its totality though!


Struggling Obedient Servant

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As salaamu calaykum.


Allaah yajziika kheyral jazaa' akhii S.O.S.


Zaadakallahu xirsan! may Allaah increase you in knowledge.



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A man walked into a barber shop to have his hair cut and beard trimmed. So when the barber started to cut the cutomer's hair, they had a conversation about general stuff..and when they touched on the subject of God, the barber got annoyed and said..


Barber:"...oh i don't really believe in God!"

Customer: "Why not?"

Barber(annoyed):"well, if there was a God, would there be any poverty? would there be so much suffering in the world? hatred? wars?"


The customer didn't want to start an argument so he remained silent till the barber finished his job. the customer paid the barber and was on his way out of the shop. As soon as the customer walked out, he saw a scruffy old man, with dirty long hair and a messy, untrimmed beard. He went back to the barber and said..


Customer:" know what? Barbers dont exist!"

Barber:"what are you saying? im a barber and im standing right here infront of you!"

Customer:"well, if there was any barbers, would there be any men like that old man outside?"

Barber:"what can i do? they decided not to come to me, so how can i help them?

Customer:"same thing with God, He's there, but people dont go to Him..."

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