Saudi Mufti issues fatwa calling people to inform on militants

[Truth Seeker]

Salafi_online:

 

Inshallah I will respond to your points on Nasiyya, however can you respond to my clarification on Ahad Hadith and the Kingdom ruling by Kufr and explain any further disagreements or agreement in which case you should withdraw your accusations.

 

The understanding on Nasiyyah yes there are aspects that you give in private as in the case of something you see wrong in a brother you correct the brother as it is better to conceal the sins of a brother.

 

As to those who openly commit kufr, then we should openly account them to protect the ummah from them. The glorious scholars of Islam exemplify this, did not the Prophet (saw) openly criticise the rulers of Quraish, has Allah (swt) not openly criticesed the Leaders of Quraish in the Quran.

 

In the rulership of Umar during a khutbah he asked to be obeyed but a Sahabi got up and said no we will not obey, when Umar enquired as to why he would not obey? the Sahabi said that a one piece cloth was distributed to everybody yet you are wearing two. At this point Umar sons spoke and explained that he had given his cloth to his father because he was a large man and one cloth did not cover him. Where was the private nasiyyah here?

 

As to the philosphy of Hizb ut Tahrir it is Islam – you can bring any aspect of there work and there will be evidence for it. If you look at the methodology to Establish the Islmaic state anyone with the knowledge of the seerah will see the clear analogy to method used. If you have sepcific questions I am more that happy to try and answer or find out the answer.

[sahal]

I want to ask the Salafi-on-line

3 questions:

 

1. did our SALAF (R.A) souught protection for their children from non muslims like Romans or Persians at their time or instead they were threatning and invading them?

 

2. is it true that our prophet (S.A.W) ordered to expell kufars from Arabian Penisula?

 

2. what is the difference between the Ulumas in Saudia and the rest of the muslim world Uluma say AL-Azhar Uluma for example?

 

I look forward your response.

[Blessed]

A great deal of takfeer making in this thread...

 

People, don't be so hastey in labeling Muslims kafirs and spreading rumours about dead scholars.

 

I'm sure there is a better way of approaching this topic without getting involved in bashing the character of scholars you may not like...

 

 

*sisterly advice...salaams!

[NGONGE]

^^^ I don’t think there is a better way of doing it, sister. The whole topic is about the deficiency of the Islamic scholars of Saudi Arabia. Those starting it have it in mind to besmirch the characters of these scholars. Just step back and hope for the best I say. Salafi seems to be doing a good job of holding the fort for now.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

Tayyib, after examining your questions, I must say I can only continue the conversation with one person, multiple discussion is of no benefit to me but rather time consuming.

It’s either Sahal or Truth Seeker.

 

Futhermore, I would like to insert few rules in the discussion.

The audiences are the referees; they must interject at anytime if they notice that the rules are violated

 

Rule #1: we stick to one topic at a time;

We must refrain from jumping from one topic to another

 

Rule #2: you must provide solid evidence for your discourse, mere opinion based upon media bias will not suffice, and if this becomes a trend, withdrawal from the discussion is expected.

Ruler #3: NO one can aid both participates

 

Rule #4: You must address all the points,

 

Rule #5: One must provide counter arguments,

Ie. I will not be doing all the responding, but you must respond to my questions as well.

 

Rule #6: Lets use Adaab (Manners) and Fear Allah

 

With that said, who will it be Sahal or truth Seeker?

 

salamu alaykum

[Conscious Manipulation]

asalaamu alaykum,

 

NGONGE ,

You raise a lot of interesting points which we can inshaAllah benefit from by discussing.

 

Why are the Saudis being singled out? There's nothing special about them in terms of oppressing the Muslims and aiding the enemies of Islam as many other nations in the Muslim lands have done. What is unique about the Saudis, however, is how they've managed to cloak themselves with the authentic teachings of the deen and distorted it to some how legitimize their existence in the eyes of the shair'ah. To the extend that sincere Muslims now believe the Kingdom of saudi is an Islamic state. Discussions like these are just attempts to dislodge this view from the ummah and challenge Muslims to use the correct Islamic criteria to determine whether or not a state is Islamic.

 

The Saudi method of governing and any other system other than the Islamic ruling system is not ideal for the citizens of Saudi or for anyone else. This is due to the simple fact that the only system of governance for people is the shari'ah everything else is kufr and must be opposed. When I say oppose of course I don't mean a violent uprising (which is highly unlikely anyway) rather an intellectual challenge to the status quo.

 

Concerning the current relationship between the kingdom and the West, I think the tensions we are seeing now is the result of the West loosing grip on the region this was bound to happen, sooner or later. On one hand you have the ruling family who, while previously successful in keeping a tight lid on dissent within the kingdom, is losing the battle to the "fundamentalists" who call for the implementation of Islam (Movement for Islamic Reform in Arabia being one of them) and on the other hand, you have the West who is growing impatient with the ruling family for failing to curb these fundamentalists and who believe that by "modernizing" and appeasing the masses you will curb this call for Islam. Unfortunately for the West, the call for Islam is not reactionary and is not born out of desperation and while it can be subdued at times will never die because it is something deeply embedded in the psyche of the Muslim.

 

Why is the integrity of the Saudi scholars being question? This comes bck to my first point, the Saudi Rulers just like the rest of the rulers in the Muslim world have always sought to legitimize their existence and actions in light of the shari'ah to do this they've elevated scholars who uphold their views to positions of public influence while silencing those who disapprove of their ways in places like Al-Ruwais prison in Jeddah. So who is truthful and who isn't? Hard to say, however suspicions do arise when we're bombard with fatwas condeming the wars against Muslims yet the fact that these wars are made possible only through the use of Muslim air space, water space and military bases on Muslim lands is not addressed.

 

So how do you navigate through the world of political games and splinters of Islamic movements? Arm your self with knowledge!

 

salaam

[Medley of extemporanea]

Conscious Manipulation, thank you for the concise and thought out response

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

MC--- i see many flaws in your presentation...Walilhamd....

 

the Hizbu taheer never Cease to Astound me, they call for the rectification of the rulers, Yet the fail to understand the principals behind the rectification. Oh i guess i must learn to live with it

[Qac Qaac]

Salafi Online brother, is the word salafi a word that is made later on after the sahaba generation, and then wouldn't that be bidah. like u guys say it most of the time.

 

brother i agree with most of the stuff u say, but when u say the sahaba don't challange the governments is when i disagree with u.

there are many occation in our history that one only challanged the government and i know u know. so pls don't only see everything with what the salafi sheikhs say, but there many anuthintic things out there, that u should ought to look.

[Truth Seeker]

Salafi i agree to the conditions, maybe we can start with the two points i have responded to you one:

 

- Ahad hadith

 

- The Kingdom ruling by Kufr

[sahal]

Salafi you escaped to answer my questions, because they're the base of arguments.

O.K I will answer for you, just tell me and other pannel if you agree or disagree with me.

 

1. It is shame, wrong and perhaps HARAM for someone who seek the kufars to protect their land (as saudis and all gulf countries do) to say i'm following the path of our SALAF since you couldn't find the whole Islamic history that the kufars were protecting muslim lands.

 

2. Yes our prophet SAW said expell the Mushrikoon from Arabian Penisula, however it's debateable for civilian contracters and majority of ULUMA allowed it, but to allow american soldiers to have military basis in the two holy mosque land is forbidden.

 

3. There is no difference between the Saudi Ulumas and the rest of the world Ulumas except their taqwa and their Jihad, so to defend all muslim Uluma yes but to defend one country's uluma and to insult others as many so-called Salafis do is HARAM.

 

I can enlighten more but i want to see your reactions first.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

Tayyib Truth Seeker, then its agreed, and let Allah and the audience be our witness,

 

I've opened a thread in the islamic section just for this friendly discussion

 

inshallah the first topic we'll discuss will be the Ahad Ahadith, followed by the kingdom ruling with kufr ...., See u there inshallah

[sahal]

Salafi you're good manouever, manoeuvering is a main feauture of your group, why don't you answer the qusetion related to your signature:

 

O you who believe! Take not for Auliyâ' (protectors or helpers or friends) disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allâh a manifest proof against yourselves? (4:144)

 

Who took the Americans Auliya (protectors or helpers or friends)?

 

that's the base of arguement, don't manouver around the AHAAD Hadith which is very old debate and can't be solved in the Somaliaonline thread.

 

Answer those questions and don't spoil our minds for MU@ATAZILA, JAHAMIYAH, ASHAAIRAH, QADARIYAH etc who are not the our present enemy.

 

our present enemy is well known don't manouvere and let's face the reality.

 

the above debate is the debate of thousand years ago when the muslims were their highest power and proseperity, today our countries were occupied and we're killing each other so, don't create new divisions and don't misguide us sxb.

 

MU'TAZILAH, JAHAMIYAH etc were dead and new enemies were emerged so let's face them.

 

I ask the truth seaker and others not to continue this thread since it's like ostrich hiding her head in the sand.