Haseena Posted August 21, 2004 Bismillah Salamu Aleikum Wa Rahmatullah, Brother Ayoub_Sheikh, Jazaka Allah kheir for your input, I advice the rest to read it Insha Allah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 Posted BY Ayub_Shaykh You know what the Qur'aan says about people who do not rule the way Allah (SWT)ordered and you know what the Prophet (SAW) said if we see someone doing wrong we should stop them or speak against. Feeling bad about someone doing something wrong is described as lowest of belief. Brothe Ayub can you precisely relay What Allah said! I’m not certain which ayat you’re alluding to, given that Allah the Exalted said the following,( 5:44-47 ) (1) whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed, such are the Kâfirûn (2) And whosoever does not judge by that which Allâh has revealed, such are the Zâlimûn (3) whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fâsiqûn Naturally Mr.Shaykh, those who do not ascribe to the Minhaj of the Salaf construe these ayahs according to their whims which contradicts the understanding of the salaf: Ibn Abbas Said,â€By Allah these verse were revealed with regards to the two Jewish Tribes, and it was these two that Allah Azza Wa Jall meant in these verse†Related by Ahmed 1/246 at-tabari in Al’Al’Mu’jam Alkabeer 3/95/1 also See Tafsir Ibn Kathir for futher clearification! Also im not sure if he(saw) the best Creature, said Speak against them, or advice them, in any case, if you would be kind enough to give me the exact Hadith so I can see what he said exactly, then we can move forward from there and inshallah cement our differences! There is only ONE Siratul Mustaqeem without branches, thus every Muslim’s aim is to navigate on that one Path! What I want to ask you is; when should one start to disobey the Kings? If they asked you to torture or kill someone will you obey them? If they asked someone to bring them alcohol or prostitutes should they obey them? Where do you draw the line on obeying oppressive leaders? The Best Creature, the man who I love more then my own mother, rather my own soul, said: ‘‘The person must obey in whatever he loves, and in whatever he hates, in ease and in hardship, in willingness and un-willingness; except if he is commanded to disobey Allaah. So if he is commanded to disobey Allaah, then he should not listen, not should he obey.’’ Related by al-Bukhaaree (4/203) Brother if the Ruler commands you to do something that is not Haram, then you must comply with him, even if you dislike his commandment! Allah the Sublime and Majestic said the believers are those when Allah and his messenger command something; they say “WE HEAR AND WE OBEY†He the messenger of Allah(saw), who I was fortunate enough, like our brother Nur , entertained him(saw) twice in my dreams on the 29th of Ramadan and few months later, said: The Prophet said, “Listen and obey, even if the ruler seizes you and beats your back.†Related by Muslim (6/19) Then he said He replied, " you should hear and obey the ruler even if he flogs your backs and takes your wealth, then still hear and obey ." Reported by Muslim (Eng. trans Vol 3/1029/34554) He also said to obey the ruler even if he is an abaseniyian Slave†imagine brother Ayub, an Abaseniyian slave ruling over the Quraysh! This indeed is the most unthinkable to the arabs. So the he(saw) gave them the most extreme model, and he advised them that if it happens then still Hear and obey him, as long as he does not command you to do something Haram! The Messenger of Allah SAW said, "The best of generations is my generation (Sahaabah), then those who come after them (Taabi'oon) and then those who come after them (Atba' at-Taabi'oon)" Brother Ayub May Allah guides us to the path of the Salaf, They are the people I take my knowledge from, they are my light to Salvation, the Salaf Us Salih unanimously agreed that hearing and obeying the just and excessive rulers is wajib. You may differ with us, as it is Human nature to differ, But ALLAH THE MAGNIFICENT said, “hatu burhaanakum inn kun tum sadiqeen “ 2:111 “"Bring your proof if indeed you’re truthful."2:111 the ball is in your court! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 It took me awhile to type out this post, lest the audience should feel that I censure and criticize other Muslims irrationally and unjustly. So I made a point to illustrate precisely where the Tableglees veered off from the Kitab and Sunnah. Before I begin brother Bilal, it should be known that I have gone out with the Tableegh, my friends are former Tableegeyeen, and some still are. As a matter of fact I have one family member who is a dedicated Tableeghi. Alhamdulillah I have not ceased in advising them and calling them to the kitab and Sunnah via the path of Salaf Us SaliX. So Bilal, I’m no stranger to their call, manners and characteristics. Inshallah I intend to address every single point you have raised, seeing that you took the time to type all that out it deserves a well thought out response First, it is crucial to note that I do not disagree with the Tableegh merely due to lack of Knowledge from their part, though its major factor, instead their Manhaj and Aqeeda. Bilal inshalalh in this post perhaps we can mend our differences in the light of the Kitab and Sunnah, however in order to do those, we must approach this discussion with a pure heart and may Allah makes us among those who take the truth when it is presented to us! Ameen our primary discrepancy lies with the individuals we consider to be scholars, hence it is fitting we both furnish the education credentials of these individuals we select to sustain our points Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 intro to the Salaf us Salih: They are the companions, their students and their students, Our beloved messenger(saw) says about them: "The best of people are my generation, then those who follow after them, then those who follow after them(ie the salaf Us Salih), then there will come people whose testimony will precede their oath and their oath will precede their testimony(ie the Khalafi)." Reported by Imaam Ahmad Then we have the Imams of later generations, those who came after the salaf, but follow them in exact faith, I introduce you to The Noble Shaykh, the Allama, From Albania, Muhammad Naasiruddeen al-Albaanee  He was born in the city of Ashkodera, then the capital of Albania in the year 1332 A.H./1914 C.E. into a poor family.  in Damascus Shaykh al-Albaanee completed his initial education and was then taught the Qur.aan, Tajweed, sciences of Arabic language, fiqh of the Hanafee madhab and further branches of the Deen by various Shaykhs and friends of his father  He became engrossed with the science of Hadeeth to the extent that he would sometimes close up his shop and remain in the library for up to twelve hours - breaking off his work only for prayer - he would not even leave to eat, but would take two light snacks with him.  After a number of his works appeared in print the Shaykh was chosen to teach Hadeeth in the new University in Madeenah, Saudi Arabia, for three years from 1381 to 1383H where he was also a member of the University board.  He visited various countries for Da'wah and lectures - amongst them Qatar, Egypt, Kuwait, the Emirates, Spain and England, Syria, Jordan, Beirut and Emirates  He was imprisoned in Syria, same prison that Ibn taymiyah was held  His students are many and include many Shaykhs of the present day amongst them: Shaykh Hamdee 'Abdul-Majeed, Shaykh Muhammad 'Eed 'Abbaasee, Dr. 'Umar Sulaymaan al-Ashqar, Shaykh Muhammad lbraheem Shaqrah, Shaykh Muqbil ibn Haadee al-Waadi'ee, Shaykh 'Alee Khushshaan, Shaykh Muhammad Jameel Zaynoo, Shaykh 'Abdur-Rahmaan Abdus-Samad, Shaykh 'Alee Hasan 'Abdul-Hameed al-Halabee, Shaykh Saleem al-Hilaalee.  He memorised over a 100,000 hadeeth along with their chains of narration and the text (of each hadeeth)."  Never knew him to leave off fasting on Mondays and Thursdays... Then Shaykh: Saalih ibn Muhammad ibn 'Uthaymeen  He received his education from many prominent scholars like Shaykh 'Abdur-Rahmaan as-Sa'dee, Shaykh Muhammad Ameen ash-Shanqeetee and Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz.  “...he memorised the Qur.aan in 6 months...† he (rahima-hullaah) was the peak of simplicity and humility; He did not like sleeping on a bed, nor a comfortable mattress, rather he slept on the floor or a meagre mattress or straw mat which affected his side." Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez bin –Baaz  He was Blind  his teachers were Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Lateef Aal-Shaykh, Shaykh Saalih ibn 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal-Shaykh and the eminent Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem Aal-Shaykh who, in his time, was the Muftee of Saudi Arabia. Shaykh Ibn Baaz accompanied the eminent Shaykh and learned from him for about ten years. Thus he gained his religious education from the family of Imaam Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Wahhaab.  taught nine years at Riyadh Islaamic Law College,  he was appointed Vice-Chancellor of the Islaamic University, al-Madeenah; but shortly afterwards, he was made the Chancellor with all the administrative powers. Later he was appointed President of the General Presidency of Islaamic Research, Ifta, Call and Propagation  He held the position of Grand Muftee of Saudi Arabia,  Senior Scholars Committee of the Kingdom, Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa, the Founding Committee of Muslim World League, World Supreme Council for Mosques, Islaamic Jurisprudence Assembly Makkah; and the member of the Supreme Council of the Islaamic University at al-Madeenah, and the Supreme Committee for Islaamic Propagation, until he passed away on Thursday 27 Muharram 1420 A.H./May 13 1999 C.E. May Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) have Mercy upon his soul, aameen. Shaykh Dr. Saalih Ibn Fowzaan Ibn 'Abdullaah Ibn Fowzaan  He then joined the Faculty of Sharee'ah (at the University of Imaam Muhammad) in Riyaadh and graduated from there 1381 A.H./1960 C.E. Thereafter he gained his Masters degree in fiqh, and later a Doctorate.  Taught at the Supreme Court of Justice, where he was appointed the head.  He was then made a member of the Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa, where he continues to this day.  The noble Shaykh is a member of the Council of Senior Scholars, and member of the Fiqh Committee in Makkah  He himself studied at the hands of a number prominent scholars and jurists, the most notable of whom were: The noble Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz (rahima-hullaah); The noble Shaykh 'Abdullaah ibn Humayd (rahima-hullaah); The great Shaykh Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeetee (rahima-hullaah); The noble Shaykh 'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee (rahima-hullaah); The noble Shaykh Saalih Ibn 'Abdur-Rahmaan as-Sukaytee; The noble Shaykh Saalih Ibn Ibraaheem al-Bulayhee; The noble Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Subayyal; The noble Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ibn Saalih al-Khulayfee; The noble Shaykh Ibraaheem Ibn 'Ubayd al-'Abd al-Muhsin; The noble Shaykh Saalih al-'Alee an-Naasir;  He also studied at the hands of a number of scholars from al-Azhar University (Egypt) who specialised in hadeeth, tafseer and Arabic language. They all hold fast to the Kitab and Sunnah upon the path of the Salaf us Saleeh, the are the scholars of Hadith, the scholars of dalil(proves) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 Posted by Bilal “It is well known that the muslims of two or three decades ago, knew more quran and hadith as the ones of today†Im not sure where you got this from,but our beloved messenger(saw) the following Aboo Hurairah – as best I know from Allaah’s Messenger, sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam, who said, "Allaah will raise for this Ummah at the head of every hundred years, he/those who will revive its religion for it." Sunan Aboo Daawood,, ’Awnul-Ma’bood (11/385-396) of al-Azeemabaadee. The revivers are equipped with knowledge, plus they are the inheritors of the prophet (saw) hence we do not compare and contrast the Scholars who are upon the same Path, same Aqeeda and same Manhaj! They issue from one another “Salafi i'm not a veteran of SOL, but it seems to me like you've almost made it you're trademark, to discredit and assign muslims into groups and sects. To help explain certain things to people is a worthy endeavour, but that can't be done by nullifying their position and branding them ignorant. nor im I, yet I can not remain silent for the following incentives… When some people mentioned to IMAAM AHMED IBN HANBAL {rahim'ullah} that they felt uneasy about critising people he replied," If I were to remain silent, how would the ignorant masses know truth from falsehood?" Those who introduce heretical writings and deviant religious rites contrary to Qur'Än and Sunnah in the name of Islam have to be exposed and the Muslim nation warned against them according to the unanimous agreement of salaf! Infact, Yahyaa ibn Maeen companion of IMAAM AHMED IBN HANBAL {rahim'ullah} was asked if one who fasted, prayed and secluded himself in the masjid was dearer to him than one who spoke out against people involved in Deviations, he replied, "When he fasts, Prays and secludes himself, he does so for himself alone, but if he speaks out against the Deviations, he does so for Muslims in general which is more Noble, Hence it is clear that openly opposing innovation {Bid'ah} and Deviations is of general benefit to Muslims in the practice of their religion and comes under the heading of "Jihaad fee sabeelil-laah" {struggle in Allah's path} Purification of Allah's religion and the repulsion of attacks against it is a general obligation {Fard kifaayah} on Muslims by unanimous agreement. For if Allah did not raise up some people to oppose the corruption preached by heretics, the religion would surely become distorted and deviant, The corruption of the Divinely revealed religion is far more terrible than the corruption resulting from the military conquest of the Non-Muslims, For when Non-Muslims over powers Muslims they are not able to corrupt the hearts of Muslims, or their religion except after some time, whereas, heretics corrupt the hearts from the very outset" “First of all, knowledge is from Allah. He grants it to which He pleases without limit. Allah says in the Quran: “ I’m not sure what you mean by this, what I know is that everything is from Allah the good and the bad(The Qadar of Allah), however the scholars have said that Knowledge is acquired, and Intellect is not! In other words one may gain Knowledge by learning it yet he/she may not have the intelligence to use that knowledge to benefit his soul, The jews are a great Example. Allah describes them as Donkeys with book on their backs(ie they do not benefit from their knowledge). An intellectual person is someone who has acquired knowledge of Islam and simultaneously owns the ability to utilise this knowledge to gain Allah’s pleasure. You said: †Salafi would you disagree that it is a duty on every believer to convey the message of Allah†Bilaal yes I would disagree, since not every believer is fit to transmit the message of Allah, there are pillars and conditions to Da’wah! Here are just a few of ‘Em First: “Say (O Muhammad SAW): "This is my way; I invite unto Allâh (i.e. to the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) with sure knowledge, I and whosoever follows me (also must invite others to Allâh i.e to the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) with sure knowledge.(12:108) In this Ayah Baseerah is knowledge, The caller is certain to face those who are scholars of misguidance, those who will attack him with doubts and futile arguments in order to rebut the truth, so he must be upon clarity, and calling to Allah is the path of the Messenger (saw) and the manhaj of the righteous (companions) and the way of the Messengers of Allah Second : he/she must act upon that which he calls to, as Allah said “O you who believe! Why do you say that which you do not do? Most hateful it is with Allâh that you say that which you do not doâ€(61:2-3) Third: Must know Tawheed in its entirety, Allah said: “So know (O Muhammad SAW) that Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh)(47:19)†Knows Tawheed upon sound knowledge, because it is imperative the caller knows what he is calling to from that which is: waajib (obligatory), mustahab (recommended), muharram (impermissible) and makrooh (disliked) and also knows what is shirk, sinning, kufr (disbelief), fisq (open sinning) and knows the (different) levels and the manner in which to forbid and discourage. ....continue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 Do the Tableegees fulfill these conditions? I would have to say No, and here are my reasons! This group has a methodology it traverses upon, which has six fundamentals and they are as follows: (1) Actualisation of the Kaalimah: There is none deserving of worship except Allaah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah. (2) Salaat (prayer) performed with khushoo' and khudoo' (awe, humility and submission). (3) Knowledge along with Dhikr (Remembrance). (4) Honouring the Muslims. (5) Correction of the intention and its purification. (6) Khuruj(so called Going out in the path of Allaah) My noble Readers - these six fundamentals seem noble at first glance, but come so that I expend these fundamentals and clarify what they mean by them. Then we shall see after that if they are on the path of the Companions in their understanding of these fundamentals, their implementation and in calling to them in the proper manner. Explanations of the 6 fundaments: (1) The meaning of the actualisation of the kalimah: There is none worthy of worship except Allaah, is the actualisation of Tawheed with all its three types: Tawheed ul-Uloohiyyah, Tawheed ur-Ruboobiyyah and Tawheed ul-Asmaa was-Sifaat. Shaikh Abdur-Rahmaan bin Hasan bin Aal Shaikh - may Allaah have mercy upon him - said in Fath ul-Majeed: His saying: Chapter: Whoever actualises Tawheed will enter Paradise without being held to account. I say: Its actualisation is: its purification and clarity from all the impurities of Shirk, Innovation and disobedience." A question my brother - if Allaah allows and if you will permit me - if this is the meaning of the actualisation of the kalimah then why do we differ from them then? Do you know the meaning of their actualisation of the kalimah: There is none worthy of worship except Allaah and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger? What they intent by this actualisation are by speaking about Tawheed ur-Ruboobiyyah only. Why? Because it does not cause any dislike/aversion or separation and differences between any two groups among the Muslims. As for talking about Tawheed ul-Asmaa was-Sifaat, then it causes separation, aversion among the muslims, such as the Ash'ariyyah, the Maatureediyyah, the Jahmiyyah, the Hulooliyyah, the Ittihaadiyyah and the Salafiyyah. All of them differ with regard to this topic, Allaah's Names and Attributes and the fundamental upon which this group (Jamaa'at ut-Tableegh) stick to and navigate upon which is the secret word or hidden agenda is that anything which causes aversion, separation and difference between two people then its ruling is that it should be removed and abolished from the methodology of the group. Likewise for the second type of the types of Tawheed which is Tawheed ul-Uloohiyyah(Worship). Speaking about this matter is forbidden and its ruling in the methodology of this group is that it is cut off and abolished because it causes separation, aversion and difference. It is so because this one is a Salafi and this other one is a Sufi grave worshipper. As for the first, he does not allow setting out on a journey to graves or performing prayer by the grave or towards it and nor does he allow Tawwaaf to be performed around it and nor making Tawassul by the righteous dead people and nor seeking help and sustenance from them and so on, in opposition to the other one to whom all of what has been mentioned is permissible, rather he thinks it is the essence of the religion. And this is why - my noble readers when one of their leaders stands in order to explain this fundamental he does not say except: 'All praise is to Allaah who created us, gave us sustenance and has bestowed favours upon us' and so on, continuing with matters related to Tawheed ur-Ruboobiyyah only. By Allah I have witnessed with my own two eyes, for over 6 years that Tableegh only talk about Tawheed ur-Ruboobiyyah, Allah created the trees, created the heavens… created the seas, Allah Created the mountains…etc. every lecture, every talk,every sitting same thing over and over and over what happend to the other catagories of tawheed? (2) Salaat (prayer) performed with khushoo' and khudoo' (awe, humility and submission). Salaat is fard(must) upon every muslim, however the messenger of Allah(saw) said, "Pray as you see me praying" (al-Bukhari). The Tableegh gently call for Humility and submission when one is performing salaat, but how can their call materialize when they oppose the methodology of the messenger of Allah(saw)? For example, Point One: Ibn Umar(ra) reported that Allaah (AWJ)'s Messenger said, Establish your lines [straight], for indeed the angels [pray] in lines. Align your shoulders, close the gaps, yield your hands to your brothers, and do not leave any gaps for Shaytaan. Whoever connects a line, Allaah maintains him, and whoever breaks a line, Allaah cuts him off. (Ahmad, Aboo Daawood, an-Nasaa`ee and others. See Saheeh ul-Jaami no. 1187) The Tableeghs deliberately permit the opening of gaps, and when you try to close the gaps they move their feet away, Point two: The Messenger of Allah(saw)†He used to place them on his chest." Abu Daawood, Ibn Khuzaimah in his saheeh (1/54/2), Note: To place them on the chest is what is proved in the Sunnah, and all that is contrary to it is either da`eef or totally baseless. In fact, Imaam Ishaaq ibn Raahawaih acted on this sunnah, as Marwazi said in Masaa'il (p. 222)†"Ishaaq used to pray witr with us _he would raise his hands in qunoot, and make the qunoot before bowing, and place his hands on his breast or just under his breast." The Tableeghee place their hands on their stomach, somewhat below the belly bottom (though this is not the case for all tableeghs, mostly those from the subContinent, that’s where the group was found) Point three: They make a group du’ah after each prayer, which has no basis in the religion of islam! What is found in the sunnah is that they Prophet(saw) and his companions make group du’ah during prayer, not after! So with the aforementioned defects, it’s hardly possible to attain humility and submission during salah! So what are the Tableeghes calling to, if they can not even establish the first and Second Pilllar of islam with knowledge! (3) Knowledge with Dhikr (Remembrance) Any sane Muslim who truly Fears Allah knows that knowledge is: "Allaah said and His Messenger said and the Companions said†in every matter whether it is related to belief, acts of worship or dealings with other people or manners. But what is Tableegh’s meaning of knowledge? They say: Knowledge is of two types: Ilm ul-Fadaa'il (Knowledge of the Virtues of Actions) and Ilm ul-Masaa'il (Knowledge of Matters of Fiqh). Now let us return to their division: Knowledge is of two types, knowledge of the virtues and knowledge of the matters (of fiqh). They say: This (knowledge of the virtues) is for us (i.e. their group) and the knowledge of the matters is for the people of knowledge, all of you (i.e. the people who go out on khurooj with them) should seek it from the scholars of his own town (or country). Have you taken caution from this division of theirs? Why do they allow speaking about the knowledge of the virtues of the actions and forbid it with regard to matters of fiqh? In fact they request from those who go out with them to seek this knowledge from the scholars of their own towns and countries. It is because the first does not cause separation, aversion and differences in opposition to the second. The question is: Will they enjoin the good and forbid the evil? The answer is in light of the secret word (or hidden agenda): No. Why not? Because enjoining the good and forbidding the evil causes aversion and alienation - in their opinion - between the one who orders and the one who is being ordered. Therefore its ruling is that is removed from the methodology of the group. Another question: If this is so, how do they enjoin and forbid? The answer: They apply hadeeth and verses from the Qur'aan which exhort to the performance of that particular action which they are enjoining and which has been abandoned, or which exhort to the abandonment of that particular action which is being committed, without every approaching the aspect of belief. They will say, for example, to the one who has left the prayer: "The Believers will prosper. Those who are humble and submissive in their prayers.." and they will also say: The Messenger of Allaah (sas) said: "There is no muslim servant who performs twelve rakahs of prayer for Allaah every day voluntarily, besides the obligatory except that Allaah builds a house for him in Paradise", this is the excellence of the voluntary prayers, how then would the excellence of the obligatory prayer be? And this is why when a disobedient one who goes out with them wishes to smoke a cigarette, they permit him to do so. Likewise for the one who drinks alcohol And when one desires to shave his beard they give him they do not admonish him lest it should create fitnah amongs them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 (4) Honouring the Muslims. They honour everyone, so you find some are Maatureedee, others are Ash’aree, whilst others are Soofee, Some are Qadari, Ahmediya,etc… and even some who have no madhhab (affiliation to any particular ideology). So the da’wah of the Jamaa’ah at-Tableegh is that of the Soofiyyah, they call to good manners(Akhlaq), as for correcting the differing ‘aqeedah of the group, then they do not exert themselves one iota. This is because they believe this will cause differences and splitting apart. (5) Correction of the intention and its purification. They narrate conjured accounts to motivate the people in their gatherings from their Golden book, THE FAZAIL-E-AA'MAAL, WHICH INSHALLAH IF ALLAH GIVES ME TIME I WILL ALSO UNVEIL! (6) Khuruj(Going out for the calling to the path of Allah) One of them always says to whoever is listening to him, with the intention of encouraging and exhorting him to go out with them on khurooj and to abandon his land, his family, his children and his wealth and other things besides them to Do Khuruj. This is their backbone going out with a limit of three days in a week, four months in a year and four months (at least) in a lifetime And they have two excursions (jawlah) every week: one to the mosque that is prayed in, and the other is a roaming excursion. And they have two study circles every day: a circle in the mosque that is prayed in, and one circle at a house. So they will not be pleased with a person until he adheres to this. There is no doubt that this is an innovation in the Religion for which Allaah has sent down no authority. No where in the Deen of Allah shall you find such procedures. (posted by Ayub_Shiekh)“Like brothers Nur and Bilaal said, some of the best people I've ever seen in character, humility and other practices of Islam were Tablighis.†No doubts the tableeghee’s guise is attractive, however don’t let their appearance misinform you for the following reasons: Ibn Abbas (RA) May Allah shower him with mercy and blessings him, Said about the Khawarji when he entered upon them: “When I entered their camp, I found a people whose devotion in prayer the like of which I had never seen. Their foreheads were scarred from continuous and prolonged protestations and their pals were calloused like the knees of camels. Their cloths were washed and their faces lined from staying awake all night†The saahaabee Jundub Al-Zadee said†When we marched with Alee, to fight the khawarij and reached their encampment, to our surprise we heard a loud drone produced by their recitation of the quran†Also, When Ibn Muljam killed Ali(Ra) the other Sahabs captured him and cut off his hands and feet, yet he did not utter a sound, then both his eyes were pierced by red hot nails, but still he did not cry out, instead he began to recite surah Al A’lAQ , he continued doing this while blood flowed from his eyes-sockets, however when a section of his tongue was burned he cried out. When he was asked why he did so at that point, he replied,†I hate to die in this world with other then Allah’s Remembrance on my Tongue†Looking at the skin of his forehead one could see brownness, the effects of constants prostrations. (At-Tabaaree,Taareekh Al Uman Wal Mulook). These were the Khawarij as our beloved messenger described to be the dogs of the Hell fire, don’t get me wrong I’m not saying the tableegh are like them, I’m saying don’t let appearance deceive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 (posted by Bilaal) “There are many, but it seems you haven't taken the time to research the people you're slandering. In fact many Uluma from the Egypt, Oman, Qatar and other places in the middle east travel every year to gain insights and wisdom from the tabligh Jama'ats.†I can not recall slandering anyone, but if have inadvertently then I seek Allah’s Forgiveness. Inshallah you will tell me the names of these scholars and their education timeline! “Shaikul Hadith Muhammad Zakariyya Kaandhlawi,†Brother im not sure if I would consider him a scholar, let alone a shaykh because of his sayings He says: (1) Delaying prayer once will cause a person to burn in the hellfire for 20.88 million years, just because he or she failed to pray on exact time. (“Maulana†Zakaria Kandhalwi, Fazaael Namaz, p.317) (2) Do not try to understand the Qur'ân ever. Else, you will go astray. Fifteen “Uloom†(sciences) are required to understand the Book. (“Maulana†Zakaria Kandhalwi, Fazael Amaal, p.2) Brother bilal do you know Ashraf Ali Thanwi the great Muhadith(hadith scholar of the tableeg) He says: (1) Recite the verse "When the heaven will split.†Write it (on a piece of paper) and tie to the left thigh of any woman in labor, child birth will become easy. Cut the hair of that woman and burn them between her thighs, childbirth will be easier still. (Aamal-e-Qurani, Ashraf Ali Thanwi) (2) When, "Maulana" Zakaria, the father of "Maulana" Yousuf Bannuri would fall sick, the prophet would come. He told the house servant, "Badshah Khan! I (the holy prophet), am also serving Zakaria. (Bayyanat 1975 Ashraf Ali Thanwi p. 7) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 Unveiling THE FAZAIL-E-AA'MAAL, FAKE HADITHS ATTRIBUTE TO OUR BELOVED MESSENGER(SAW) In the words of Abdullah Ibn al-Mubarak (died 181 A.H.) on of the very illustrious teachers of Imam al-Bukhari, who said. "The isnaad is part of the religion and had it not been for the isnaad, whoever wished would have said whatever he liked". Reported by Imam Muslim in the introduction to his Sahih. (Sharh Sahih Muslim - Arabic Vol. 1 Page 87 the Prophet sallallahu alaihiwasallam that he said "Whoever lies on me intentionally then let him reserve his seat in hell". (Sahih Bukhari) This Book, FAZAIL-E-AA'MAAL, is well known as the "Tha'leem Kitaab" of the Thablighi Jamaat, is reverently read and practically every mosque every day and the general public is made to listen to it in the pretext that it is a genuine and authentic book. Yet its Filled with Faire-tales that they attribute to the Our Beloved Messenger(saw) In the light of knowledge the people of knowledge havel examine a source reference of a long hadeeth from the original Urdu version of the book 'Thabligi Nissab', now renamed as "Fazail-e-Aa'maal", written by Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandalawi. The source reference which is in Arabic is not translated fully in the original version (which is in Urdu), nor is it found fully translated into the other languages (English/ Tamil / Singhalese). The Arabic source which can be seen in the Old Tamil Editions (un-translated) This book well known as the "Tha'leem Kitaab" of the Thablighi Jamaat, is reverently read in practically every mosque every day and the general public is made to listen to it in the pretext that it is a genuine and authentic book. In the part entitled 'Virtues of Salaah' there is a sub-section called 'Reproach on giving up Salaah', hadeeth number 7 in this section is along hadeeth describing 5 rewards and 15 punishments. After quoting the hadeeth in Arabic a passage follows in Arabic which attempts to give the source of the hadeeth. This is not translated in to Urdu in the original "Tha'leem Kitaab" written by the author for Urdu readers. Further the translations of the book in to English, Tamil and Singhalese do not have the source reference as fully given in the Urdu version (a few inadequate comments are sometimes found in some editions regarding the source, but these do not reveal the true status of the hadeeth). The translation o the Arabic source reference in "Thabligi Nisaab" (Urdu) by Sheikh Maulana Muhammad Zakariyyah Kandalawi, section "Fazail Namaaz", Baad Awwal pg. 312 follows : That which has been said in the explanation of the hadeeth in regard to the number does not tally with 15 as there are only 14. Maybe the narrator forgot the 15th. This has been said by Ibn Hajr al-Makkie* in his books 'Zavaajir'. I am saying : Abul Laith Samarkandy (1) has narrated the hadeeth in this book 'Kurrathul Uyoon', he has made 6 things as related to his world, saying that the 5th (of the above 6 things) is that "all the creations will hate him in this world" and that the 6th is that "that he will not have any part in the Du'aa of the pious". Then he narrated the hadeeth till the end, and did not attribute to it (the hadeeth) to anyone. Sheikh Nassr Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ibraheem As-Samarkandy (2) says in his book 'Thanbeeh-ghul-Ghafileen' that it will be said "whoever was constant in his five time prayers with congregation, Allah will honour him with 5 favours. Whoever was negligent in it, Allah will punish him with 12 things, 3 in this world, 3 at the time of death, 3 in the qabr (grave) and 3 on the Day of Judgement", then narrated the like of it and then said "it has been narrated the like of this from Abu Dharr from the Prophet Sallallahu alaihiwasallam". And Suyooti said in his book 'Zailul Aalee' (3) after narrating with this meaning from the narration of Ibn Najjar in 'Thareekh Baghdaad' with the chain to Abu Hurrairah. (Then Suyooti quotes) "said in 'Meezan' (4) this hadeeth is false, composed it : Muhammad Ibn Alee Ibn Abbass on Abu Bark Ibn Ziyaad-an-Naisaboorie." I am saying : But said Al-Hafiz (5) in 'Munabbahath' from Abu Hurrairah that it was attributed to the Prophet sallallahu alai hiwasallam "the prayer is the pillar of Deen and in it are 10 things". I have told (wrote) it in 'Al-Hindiyyah' and told (wrote) it Al-Ghazzali in 'Dakaikul-Akhbaar' (6) the like of it and a more complete one of it, and said "whoever protected it Allah honoured him with 15 things .." to its end and narrated the hadeeth in detail. End of Translation of the Arabic source given in 'Thablighi Nissab'. We shall now discuss some important points in this extract, numbers (1) - (5) at the end of which the authenticity of the narration will become clear for the reader himself. (1), (2) : The authors referred to in (1) and (2) are both the same person, i.e. : Abul Laith Nassr Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ahmed Ibn Ibraheem As-Samarkandi, This is an error on the part of the author to give the idea that 2 separate writers are referring to this hadeeth in 2 different books. This sort of duplicity and its other varieties are categorized in the terminology of the scholars of hadeeth as 'Thadlees' which literally means 'concealing'. This will by no means enhance the authenticity of a hadeeth but will further increase its weakness. Imam Shamsuddeen Dhahabi, a renowned scholar in his book Siar a'alamin nubalaa (Vol 16 Page 323) writing about Abul Laith Saamarkandy says that "he dabbles in fabricated ahaadeeth" and further Imam Dhahabi in his book Thareekthul Islam (reference to period between A.H. 351-380, pg583) says "Thanbeeghul Ghafileen contains numerous fabricated ahaadeeth". (3) 'Zailul Aalee' is a book by Imam Suyooti. The full name of the book has not been given. The reason for doing so will be soon evident once the full name and its meaning is known, i.e. : "Zailul -La'aali-ul-Masnuah fil Ahadethil Maudhoo'ah" when rendered into English will read 'Tails of made up pearls in fabricated Ahaadeeth'. Therefore 'Tails of pearls' only is given to make it seemingly authentic pearls for a person who is unaware of the full name of the books which is devoted to discussing the false and fabricated ahaadeeth for the purposes of warning the Muslims of their existence! Imam Suyooti quotes this ahaadeeth in this book from another book called 'Thareekh Baghdaad' by Ibn Najjar in which the chain of narrators are mentioned. In its chain appears a fabricator of ahaadeeth of the name of Muhammad Ibn Alee ibn Abbaas who attributes it to Abu Bakr Ibn Ziyaad an-Naisaboori. (4) As for the identity of Muhammad Ibn Alee Ibn Abbaas as a fabricator it is mentioned in "Al-Meezan-ul-I'athidaal fee Naqaddirrijaal", a book written by Imam Dhahabi which is quoted by Imam Suyooti. Imam Dhahabi declare this hadeeth as 'Baatil' or 'False' as it is fabricated. (5) Al-Hafiz as he is popularly know is Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajr Al-Asqalani (773 - 852AH) and is the author of the world renowned commentary on 'Sahih al-Bukhari' known as 'Fath-ul-Bari', is not Ibn Hajr al-Makkie referred to in * of the above translation. The hadeeth which is quoted from 'Munabbahaath' (ie. the prayer is the pillar of the deen and in it are 10 things) is different from the hadeeth for which the source is being provided (ie. The hadeeth referring to the 15 punishments, etc..) Munabbathaath which has been attributed to Hafiz Ibn Hajar is not found amongst the books written by him. Further the book has not been attributed to Al-Hafiz by any of the scholars including Imam Sakhawi who is one of his students. Also several scholars have actually refuted the saying that Munabbahaath is al-Hafiz's book. Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani in his book 'Lisan-ul-Meezan' (a book analysing the standard of narrators and their narrations) in Volume 5 pages 295-297, has quoted the hadeeth concerning the 15 punishments for neglecting the prayer which is quoted above and said that it is a "manifest falsehood from the people of Tareeqahs (Sufi paths)." (6) Dakaikul Akhbaar which has been attributed to Imam Ghazali by Maulana Zakariyya again cannot be found amongst Imam Ghazali's compilations! Rather it is found with the full name "Dakaikul Akhbaar fi bayani dhikri ahlil Jannah wa ahwali ahlin Naar" as a book written by Abul Laith Samarkandy who is the very same person referred to in (1) and (2)!!!! Note : Sheikh Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn al-Baz - - the Grand Mufti of the Saudi Arabia said in his 'Fatawaa' (Vol 1, page 97) in reference to the hadith concerning 15 punishments : " It will be compulsory on a person who finds a paper containing this hadith that he burns it, and warns anyone he finds spreading this narration, in order to safeguard the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam from the lies of the liars"!!!!!. We stop here with the analysis of the references given as by now it will be evident to the searcher of the truth and the one jealous for Islam, that it will be futile trying to authenticate this hadeeth. Thus it is the conclusion that this hadeeth is false and fabricated. The hadeeth quoted from 'Bukhari and Muslim', the verdicts of Imam Nawawi (an authoritative Muhaddith) and sayings of the illustrious scholars of this Ummaah which are far too numerous to quote in such a small essay is that the Ummah must steer clear from quoting such hadeeth and its like. It should be quoted only for the purpose of warning that such false hadeeth exist. This is only one of the many such false and fabricated narrations which have been put into circulation amongst the Muslims. Insha-Allah further highlights of such false and fabricated ahaadeeth will follow so that the Muslims are warned and will be able to follow truly what the Prophet sallallahu alaihiwasallam said and not what has been falsely attributed to him. Because the prophet (saws) said "Whoever lies on me intentionally then let him reserve his seat in hell". And our final call is that all praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Aalameen. So this is the reality of the TABLIGI-JAMAT who was Founded by Muhammad Ilyas who had pledged allegiance to Soofee Tariqahs, this group has exceeded all bounds in innovations and aspects of shirk, Muhammad Illiyaas, the Deobandee who founded Jamaa’at ut-Tableegh in the 1920s. For further information on him and his sect, one should refer to the book “al-Qawl ul-Baleegh fit-Tahdheer min Jamaa’at it-Tableegh†of the Noble Shaykh Hamood Bin ‘Abdullaah at-Tuwayjiree (d. 1413). Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan praised this book, saying that he did not leave out anything with regards to his exposing this sect. Bilal likewise the ball is in your court ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 (Posted by Sahal) This guy is really SICK , Sahal you insist on defaming and oppressing me with words, Because I call to the abandonment of Innovation and the callers of innovation,then in that case, i will follow the advice of Allaah, the Most Exalted and Glorious “And if they hear al-laghw (evil, vain, false talk), they withdraw from it and say, ‘For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. Peace be with you. We do not seek the ignorant ones.†(28:55 ) For it is evident from the negative tones and words used in your attacks, that no matter what I say or how many evidences you receive from the Kibar Ulama(senior Scholars), it will be of no avail, You clearly flaunt the features of the profiteers, (those who wish to please everybody, even at the expense of the truth), and Allah guides who he wills! While Allaah said, “ be just and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allâh. (5:8) And I pray that Allaah makes me worthy of being among those He Himself defends, as He said, “Indeed Allaah defends those who believe.†(22:38) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sahal Posted August 30, 2004 you can insult and fabricate false claims on the AWLIYAA-U-LAAH and when i told you you're sick because the hate which covered your heart upon AWLIYAA-U-LAAH and your defence and advocacy of the enemies of ALLAH, you say you're oppressing me! who is the real oppressor the defender of oppressrs and attacker of AWLIYAA-U-LAAH or defender of AWLIYAA-U-LAAH? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 30, 2004 ^^^ it is not my intent to enter the revolving door of endless riposte opened by you Sahal, with your 4 month public salvo in responses to my post which were clearly substantiated with kitab and sunnah along with the Senior scholars in regards to certain individuals you hold in high esteem! If Scholars of eminence likes that of Shaykh Albani/ Bin Baaz /Uthaymin, Fowzan/Muqbil’s Rulings can be labelled as “ fabricate false claims on the AWLIYAA-U-LAAH†Then its Allah who we complain to from your insolent bigotry that you so seemly flaunt! As for the Kufar, I despised them for the sake of Allah not for mere self gratification! There are conditions to dealing with the disbelieving folks, which you wouldn’t understand seeing that your senses are covered with your rash emotions; you sway with every wind to suit you desires, never cross your mind to probe its soundness! Defending what you believe in is an admirable trait; however there are civil means to making a point without always resorting to personal insults. What do you gain by attacking me personally? Do you feel a twitch in your heart when you call me sick..ect… do you sleep better? Is this the manners and characteristics of the Messenger of Allah(saw) When he was insulted and beaten did he resort to insults? Then why do you feel the need to do as such? address the points that are raised, refrain from going personal! for starters address the points i have raised in this thread against the Tableeghs! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sahal Posted August 30, 2004 Check your heart, if you're happy and feeling comfortable when one of the Muslims (who u called them different names) is insulted you're sick. If you don't reconcile the Muslims (whatever u called them) for the sake of ALLAH and for the sake of what happening in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan and many other Muslim countries and still insisting i'm SALAFI rather than the MUSLIM you're sick. If you're today (after all what happened to Muslim Ummah) insulting noble ULUMA'S like Sh. Yusuf Qaradawai, Sh. Salman Al-awda, Sh. Safar Al-Xawali and many others you're sick. If you're today (after all what happend to muslim Ummah) insulting Jamaca Tabliigh, Taxriir enz. and diffrentiating between muslims you're sick. if you're today (after all what they did) asking us; have you got any evidence from Kitab & Sunnah telling us to disobey the oppressor rulers! you're sick. Check yourself and decide yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BiLaaL Posted August 31, 2004 Salafi_Online, my initial reply was based on the one argument, namely 'Knowledge'. You've raised many points, i'll address them soon inshallah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted August 31, 2004 Bilal everything we do in this life should be based on knowledge; hence the whole post was about the lack of knowledge from the Tableeghees; their call of “Nothingness†stemming from their 6 fundamentals with their Infamous book "Faza'il Amal" Inshalllah see to it that you address every point I raised! And May Allah be with you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
