Hope In the Horn of Africa

[Gabbal]

Thanx Ruba, just wish more people would participate, because if the politics of the country is upside down, then so is everything.

[AYOUB]

Hornafrq apologies for the harsh tone used in my last post. Yes i'm a miskiin, but when did I ever say Ethio's TPLF government was a friend of Somaliland or any Somalis? When did I suggest we abandon Ogaden, Hawd or any Somali region? This is just an exchange of views and i'm not running for any political office, so please don't smear my avatar .

 

Yet another long post from you with nothing new it. Just another attack on Somaliland and 'exposing' Ethio's hidden agenda. Hidden agenda? I see it as open secret which everyone knows, and nothing new. Siad used to do it to them and they have always done it to Somalis. WHAT YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF IS, WHY IS IT WORKING SO WELL FOR THEM IN PRESENT SOMALIA AND NOT IN SOMALILAND?

 

All governments (except most Arabic and some African ones) try to do things that are in the interest of their people. The Ethio government is doing is what it thinks is in the interest of its people. Is this 'hidden agenda' new? NO. All the previous Ethio government have done it. Should we complain and shout? NO. Because you should expect this and worse from your enemies. Did Siad give millions of dollars to TPLF and EPLF because he loved them? NO. Because he wanted to create trouble in their land and it served his interest.

 

Siad gave the TPLF food, shelter, arms and millions of dollars but as soon they gained power they continued where Mengistu left, doing what is in their interest. The 'warlords' in Somalia gained 'power' and started satisfying their greed and doing what is in the interest of their ENEMIES. If ETHIOS stops exploiting them today, another enemy will fill the Ethio's shoes. The Ethios do not force the people in Somalia to fight among themselves. The only thing that motivates the people i call the 'problem' is GREED.

 

'The problem' will always find someone to assist them, like toxic waste exporters in Europe for an expample. So if you solve 'the problem' you have cleared off many enemies.

 

You can do it by following Somaliland's example not attacking it. The people there do what is in their interest. They stood up to Siad's regime, removed Silanyo in the middle of struggle against Siad because he was not delivering and replaced him with Abdiraxman 'Tuur'. Chucked out 'Tuur' when his time was up and now we have Kahin. That's what i call PEOPLE POWER. You just blame ETHIOS. The minute Kahin STOPS ACTING INTHE INTEREST OF SOMALILAND, HE IS OUT!. Why can't you deal with the 'warlords'?

 

BRO you are in no shape to help yourself , let alone help Ogaden or Hawd. One thing that is clear to all Somalilanders is that, the Somalis in Djibouti and NFD escaped the horrors because they were not part of Somalia. Another lesson is Somalilanders have been at their weakest as part of Somalia. Just because we don't want to be in another horrific situation it does not mean we are anti Somalia. Somaliland is a place where all Somalis, from all sorts of background live, work and travel without trouble. All Somalis benefit from Somaliland directly or indirectly. Never again would events and despots in Xamar, Addis or Nairobi change this. Somaliland will not experiment with it 'Somali weyn' again. It was a spectacular failure in anyone's language, even Irag's Al Sahaf can't spin that let alone yourself.

 

Ethios are at their weakest in history. A landlocked country surrounded by Somaliland, Eritrea, Djibouti, Sudan, Kenya and Somalia. It is only an 'empire' in the eyes of a very weak man. If Somalia gets its act together it can also make ETHIO TPLF depend on it (like Somaliland) and not the other way round. Ethios try to wreck all her neighbours but is only successful in Somalia. Can you answer why?

 

I SAY TOMATO HORNAFRIQ SAYS RAW MEAT

 

PEACE

[Gabbal]

Bismillah you don't understand how exasperated I'm getting with this debate. Ayoub_Sheikh what are you talking? Really you have me puzzled.

 

We both admit Ethiopia is an enemy, yet while I make it seem obvious, you make it seem as if the former dictatorship of our beloved country is the cause of Ethiopia's enmity towards us. Well I will say it right now, Siad Barre is not the cause of that enmity and it did not start with his regime! The enmity was created by habesh kings of Salassi, Menelik, Yohannes, Lebna Dengel,and etc. Where are you exactly getting at.

 

Second you seem to justify what Ethiopia is doing to our people by saying the Habesh governments are acting on the interest of their people. If that assertion was a fact, it would mean something, but it's NOT! The interest of the Ethiopian people is to get enough food so they won't starve the next unsuccessful harvest. How is it the interest of their people? It has always been and will always be the foreign policy of the Habesh governments to get a a permanent route to the Indian ocean. That gets me to my third point.

 

I don't understand what you've been looking at, but the last time I had a look at the world map, "present SOmalia" extended from Djibouti to Kenya and from the Indian Ocean to the Ogaden and an entity called Somalialand was written nowhere on it.

 

If Somalia gets its act together it can also make ETHIO TPLF depend on it (like Somaliland) and not the other way round

Seriouly are you sane? Ethiopia can use and uses port Djibouti, port Sudan, and if they wanted other various ports in Eritrea; what way in any shape or form is Ethiopia dependent on "Somaliland"?

 

Ethios are at their weakest in history. A landlocked country surrounded by Somaliland, Eritrea, Djibouti, Sudan, Kenya and Somalia. It is only an 'empire' in the eyes of a very weak man

So I guess Somalia is a superpower that can't be taken advantage of right?

 

One thing that is clear to all Somalilanders is that, the Somalis in Djibouti and NFD escaped the horrors because they were not part of Somalia

So there was no civil war in Djbouti in the early 90's between the Somali government and Afars right? So there was no massacre on the airport on Wajir in the NFD by troops loyal to Moi right? :confused:

 

Ethios try to wreck all her neighbours but is only successful in Somalia. Can you answer why?

Which out of Ethiopia's neighbors is fragmented, anarchic land divided into a zillion 'lands.

[LANDER]

I see the two of you are going in circles,

 

Hornafrique,

I have to say you are obsessed with the habashis. But Ayoub has got a point, habashis have their own problems (i.e. starvation and land locked) and Somaliland has its own problems. Despite the fact you think habashis are not dependent on Somaliland, you are wrong. Berbera is a big port with much cheaper prices then both Djibouti and Asmara. But anyway I’m not gonna get back to an old argument, my point is that the relationship is mutually beneficial. So before criticising Somaliland, why don’t you worry about the rest of Somalis who lack peace and unity, and also the cowardly government in Djibouti who is allowing a huge US military base to be built there. If anything, these last factors will better facilitate the infaltration of foreign powers in Somali territories. I say this cause I presume you’re a tactical man Hornafrique. Case point, Somalis are their own worst enemies and we need to stop looking elsewhere for our problems and look in the mirror.

[Gabbal]

Lander aboow I hardly think you're neutral enough to give a neutral perspective on the debate in which you didn't, but if I seem like I'm obsessed with habashas then it is for countless reasons. If you want to try to find out what those reasons are, then they have been stated before on this same thread. If you don't want to believe that it is actually Somaliland that is dependent on Ethiopia, then again my reasons are stated above. You asked me why I didn't worry about the rest of our people who lacked peace and stability, and I say that if you have been on this forum long enough you would have seen that I participated on debates and general talk about Somalis and and all the Somali lands of the horn. I do agree with you that the government of Djibouti did a cowardly and stupid act by letting the Americans recieve a base, but to get to a greater Somalia, we have to start with the Somalia that is recognized by the international community and that Somalia is the one you see on the World Atlas.

 

Case point, Somalis are their own worst enemies and we need to stop looking elsewhere for our problems and look in the mirror.

I agree with you 100% bro, we are our worst enemy and unless we realize that soon, only Allah (subxaana watacaala) knows what will happen to us. Part of looking in the mirror is adressing our problems, and secessions in our already small country is a major problem of our present.

[AYOUB]

I'm sorry for the for not replying sooner, got a bit carried away celebrating a few things this week. . For those of you who were too busy to party, i did it on your behalf , and here a fireworks display as a consolation;

fiiiiiii booom!

fiiiiiiii bang! boom! bang! bang!

 

I asked why is Somalia the only country the TPLF Ethio GOV. managed to destabilize? HornAfriq replies; 'which out of Ethois neighbors is a fragmented, anarchic land devided into a zillion 'land.'

 

Brief answer from a 'man' of a few words. Nevertheless, 'we' have made some progress. I think it is easy to blame certain countries and a number of 'warlords' for cancer in 'Somalia'. The truth is the 'warlords' are the 'heads' of an insect which has an 'abdomen' and 'thorax'. ENVY is the 'abdomen'and 'GREED' is the 'thorax'. This envy is a case of some people not wanting others to achieve anything. This sickness always points out the faults of others and tries to discredit any thing good others have achieved. A good example is how some people tried to jump on Geedid's article which kicked off this debate. Someone posts an article about elections in Somaliland- Someone else post a reply claiming the elections are illegal, that is pure ENVY. Someone posts the results-ENVY predicts a 'violent confrontation'. The list is endless from countless number of people. The only time they use the word Somaliland is to stir things. Gay excuses like 'aboow i have friends from Somaliland' just don't wash.

 

The mass looting AND 'asset stripping' that took place before and after Siad left, is a case of pure GREED. The warlords' malitia is a voluteer force motivated by GREED and ENVY. In some countries GREEDY people sell their own body parts, in 'somalia' they import toxic waste in exchange for money.

 

Hornafrq's post compares skirmishes in Djibouti and an incident at Wajir airport with what took place in Somaliland and Somalia.Have you forgotten mass graves in Somaliland and starvation in Somalia? We are talking about almost a million lives. I have also seen the statement 'somaliland does have a monopolony on massacres' is this an arguement for unity? . What an advert for unity; SOMALIA WEYN IS EQUALLY BAD FOR EVERYBODY SO PLEASE STAY WITH US!. LOL!

 

Somalilanders are not claiming a monopoly, they are just don't want to be shareholders in any future genocides.

 

Somalilanders are not the only people who have decided to distant themselves from Somalia. Some Somalis have taken the drastic action of taking Tanzanian Nationality and have settled there for good. Others think this is not far enough and are going to the US and other places. Hornafriq asked me when was the last time i looked at a map. The last time i saw a map of 'somalia' posted in this was the one which devided 'somalia's citizens into 'SOMALIS' and 'OTHERS'. No wonders the 'OTHERS' cant get out of there soon enough.

 

Looks like a lot of 'passengers' wont be boarding the SOMALI WEYN train when and if it get back on track.

 

I'm really pleased you have stopped quoting the AMHARS, but starting to qoute the YIDDISH is like jumpimg from the pan to the fire. What purpose does this racist, zionist statement serve? AND HOW DO YOU GET AWAY WITH IT?

 

 

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'I CAN BEAT YOU PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY'- MUHAMMAD ALI.

[Gabbal]

I have no idea what you're rambling about and that's a downright fact. :eek:

 

Infact you actually remind me of a certain nomad called Sami-Gyrl. Is there by any chance a connection between the two of you?

[AYOUB]

The clear connection between myself and Samigyrl is our contempt for the by-products of 'Scientific Nepotism' . I would be honoured to meet this passionate sister, if she ever visits London.

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'GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, HUSBANDS COMMING HOME EARLY FROM WORK DO'-GEORGE BURNS.

[LANDER]

Hornafrique,

 

Sxb don't be quick to judge me based on my name and avitar, I know some in this forum already do that but I gave you more credit and thought you would understand where I'm coming from concerning the habashis vs. Somalis (general) argument.

[LANDER]

Ayoub,

first of all happy 18th, I was busy celebrating too. Secondly I missed your reply that nailed it right on the head concerning these arguments brought about countless times by Hornafrique. Jealousy is quite the divisive disease amongst our peoples, but remember "It is better to be envied than pitied."Herodotus

[Zaylici]

Some interesting things will come

[Zaylici]

The upshot of my article was the following.

action initiates political development, so do what you understand to be right and never mind whoever is opposing. it is actions that matters, not pleasing everyone. significant portion of ***** community shows tendencies towards seccession and this is understandable given what has happened to them and what is happening in Somalia proper. Now you live hornofarik important historical moment and your people need you do not west your time arguing with people who cannot trenscend clan bounderies and local politcs.

[Gabbal]

do not west your time arguing with people who cannot trenscend clan bounderies and local politcs.

Thanx for the advice Zylici, I'll take it.

[AYOUB]

If that means the end of Hornaafriq's anti somaliland views then it was worth the effort.

 

Zaylici said

everyone has the right for self determination

I would check that statement with 'revolutionary' Hornafriq before handing over the AK to him.

 

Is the word Hawd that offensive?

[LANDER]

zaylici,

Do no worry about Somaliland, let them do their bussiness. every one has right for self determination, if northern Somalia deceided to seprerte it self from the rest, that is fine, but the self determination by the people of western SOmalia should not be paralyzed.

amiin to that.