Islamist agenda for Somalia: The way forward or Animal Farm?

[NGONGE]

Meiji,

It's utter nonsense. History is written by the victors, saaxib. Only after they win do they write it and romanticise the whole thing. You, Kashafa and many others are forever doing it the wrong way around.

 

But, to be fair to Kashafa, he at least believes there is a plan in place. He just leaves it to his Amir to formulate. He's a mere foot soldier and a contented monkey (said with the utmost respect of course). All your questions here should be directed at the organ grinders, saaxib. What have the leaders of Al Shabab said that their plans are?

 

The Islamic Courts before them did not have many plans for running a country. They were good administrators, as the Shabab are now, but useless politicians! Therefore, your real question should be: Can the Shabab play the game of politics or will they (as I suspect) hit a brick wall once the prize is in their hands?

[Meiji]

Kashafa,

 

Good to have you on board. However, your first attempt is amateurish. Try harder bro and try to defend your believes by clear reasoning instead of simple rethorics. Also, try to present an analysis without comparing your Islamist factions to the warlords and other evil factions. If you truelly believe that the Islamists are in the best interest of Somalia, you should be able to explain it clearly to us and evaluate their ideology on its own merits instead of comparing it with other evils.

 

Now, let us return to your first attempt of presenting the Islamist viewpoint on economics (port administration).

 

You have presented a news article which narrates the succes of Kismanyo port compared to its earlier performances under JVA. But besides lowering taxes and besides the closure of Ceel Macaan and the extortion of businessmen in Mogadishu port, what exactly have the Islamists done?

 

The success of Kismanyo port stemms from the situation in Mogadishu. The port of Mogadishu is badly mismanaged by criminals who extort businessmen, Ceel Macaan port is closed and the taxes of Kismanyo port have been lowered. The success is thus logical, and no ''master economic plan'' was needed on the part of the Islamist admin in Kismanyo to bring about this initial succes.

 

Another thing is, Bosaso port is booming and there is no Islamic administration in Bosaso. ceel Macaan port was booming and it was not governed by Islamic administraion, so why do you present a false image of: ''Have Islamic administration in place, and port revenues will increase''?

 

If every single metric, be it economical, political, and military points to the success of the Islamic platform, philosophy, and governing model

Explain us this success and how the Islamists if they take-over Somalia would govern the nation.

 

Me and Jaale-Liqaye have presented legitimate questions, so please answer those questions without resorting to simple rethorics.

[Kashafa]

Liqaaye,

 

I like to ground myself in the world of reality, bearing tangible specifics as evidence, as in the case of Kismaayo. You can see more tangibile-specifics here(as well as Norf's disappointing reply)

 

Any fool can 'philosophize', it takes greatness and great men to bring said philosophy to the world of reality. Gentlemen, we are seeing such greatness in action today in Somalia.

 

That said, pose a direct question and I'll answer it, even if I have to 'philosophize'.

[Meiji]

Kashafa,

 

Again, try not to present simple rethorics and present a genuine reasoning on why the Islamist are good for Somalia's long-term development.

 

Here are my questions:

 

We want to understand the Islamist viewpoint on

 

-how to govern Somalia,

- political representation of the people

-develop the economy,

-govern the regions,

-their policy to combat clannism and other societal ills.

-Their view towards basic freedoms: free press, free speech, free thinking.

-Their view towards the role of the central state vis-a-vis the provincial admins.

Liqaye too has legitimate Qs.

[Liqaye]

Were my questions Indirect?

 

Ngonge it seems history will merely repeat it self.

[Meiji]

But, to be fair to Kashafa, he at least believes there is a plan in place. He just leaves it to his Amir to formulate. He's a mere foot soldier and a contented monkey (said with the utmost respect of course). All your questions here should be directed at the organ grinders, saaxib. What have the leaders of Al Shabab said that their plans are?

I believe that Kashafa is an intelligent young Somali man. He supports the Islamists because he believes wholeheartedly in their ideology.

 

Now, it shouldnt be difficult for him to explain us what the Islamists want for Somalia and how they wish to govern it?

[Kashafa]

Abti, ur gonna have to narrow it down than that. It's too broad and if we go that way, we'll be swimming in semantics and generalities forever.

 

I want this discussion of ours to have a point to it, so that after we're done, mudane aqristayaasha can judge for themselves and see who has a strategic vision for the future and an actual governing model in place........ and who is intellectually bankrupt, left fingerpointing on cyberspace.

 

Again, Liqaaye and Meeji, I'm waiting for direct questions with clear parameters.

 

Were my questions Indirect?

They were too broad and open-ended. Not good for a fruitful debate. It's good for fadhi-ku-dhirir tho.

[Liqaye]

Okay then.

 

In the event that Somalia falls to al-shabaab/Xisbul Islam how will the Amir be choosen?

- Consultation

- Vote

- Council of Leaders

- Divination [i kid I kid]

And in the event that the choice does not have the support of a certain Islamic faction how will opposition be expressed.

- Organized political movement

- Taking up of arms since that is legitimate.

- Wait calmly for death or incapacitation of current Amir.

[Kashafa]

In the event that Somalia falls to al-shabaab/Xisbul Islam how will the Amir be choosen?

- Consultation

- Vote

- Council of Leaders

- Divination

[i kid I kid [/indent]

Personally, I would prefer a system of elected representatives. But again, that's my personal preference, which we will reach gradually.

 

But for the short-term(next 5-10 years), the country needs centralized leadership that will provide a no-nonsense approach to governing. The Islamist can, will, and have provided that leadership, and that's the model Somalia will be run by for the short-term.

 

And in the event that the choice does not have the support of a certain Islamic faction how will opposition be expressed

Excellent question. You see, abti, when the current Maamul of Kismaayo was announced, a certain Islamist commander(with a sizeable force) wasn't happy.(I think his name Abu Zeynab(Shugri) Matter of fact, he was livid. He felt that his men were left out of the governance. So for a few days, he show his displeasure by giving interviews to the various media outlets where he spoke quite strongly against the Kismaayo governing make-up.

 

But that's all he did. And to be more accurate, that's all he

could do

. For if he went before his men and said: Let us attack Kismaayo. They would ask him: What for ? And if he said: For us to take power. They would say: So you want us to fight and shed blood so you can sit in power ? Is this the teachings of our faith ? Did we fight the Kufaar and the Munaafiqeen just so that we could fight for power among us. Come here, you ingrate rebel. You'll be slapped in chains and sent to Kismaayo" Unlike the average rabble qashin-qob militia fighter in the TFG or the Ahlul Sun wal Jinni, your average Mujaahid is a thinking, discerning soldier fully cognizant of the principles and teaching of Islam. He knows exactly why the current war on the TFG is a

imperative-must

; Yet he also knows jago-doon and power-hunger when he sees it. This is why almost all of the former Maxaakiim forces either defected to Al-Shabaab or laid down their arms and didn't fight. They would not fight for a Munaafiq like Shariif Al-Khabeeth nor would they stand side-by-side with Moori.yaan qashin like Cabdi Qaybdiid and Saciid Dheere.

 

Basically put: The primary impetus for waging war currently is the due to the Gaalo-run, Gaalo-financed, and Gaalo-concoted TFG. And war will be waged on it and any such Gaalo-allied entities until they are dismantled and a Islamist admin is set-up.

 

Should any disagreements happen between the Islamist leadership, it will be handled the exact same way the Kismaayo disagreement was handled, through is-faham, iyo af-garasho. Notice that I am providing you with concrete examples of actual occurrences, and not just talking out of my rear end(which is a popular technique for many here).

 

The days of waging war for power and the kursi are over. The Xukm of Islam is here.

[Liqaye]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

quote:In the event that Somalia falls to al-shabaab/Xisbul Islam how will the Amir be choosen?

- Consultation

- Vote

- Council of Leaders

- Divination

[i kid I kid [/indent]

Personally, I would prefer a system of elected representatives. But again, that's my personal preference, which we will reach gradually.

 

But for the short-term(next 5-10 years), the country needs centralized leadership that will provide a no-nonsense approach to governing. The Islamist can, will, and have provided that leadership, and that's the model Somalia will be run by for the short-term.

You have not even answered the question, first you stated your personal preference, then you say for the short term somalia's leadership should be centralised and no-nonsense what ever that means.

 

The first half of the question was a query into HOW the leadership will be appointed rather than what sort of leadership will be had.

 

You did a better job with the second part of the question limiting yourself unfortunately to a compare and contrast that I would think would be naive when applied to the whole of Somalia rather than a town in the south.

 

But I appreciate your sincere efforts at enlightening me.

 

Another question WHAT is the difference between Al-shabaab and Xisbul Islam?

[Kashafa]

You have not even answered the question

Yes I did. I'm neither a representative of Shabaab/Xisbul Islam nor am I psychic for me to know HOW AND WHEN A AMIIR WILL BE CHOSEN. Even they themselves don't know that at this point. Why ? Because they're busy wiping out the last remaining shreds of Gaalo-raac'yaal.

 

I gave you my personal preferences based on me being a Somali stakeholder citizen planning for the future of his country, no more, no less.

You did a better job with the second part of the question limiting yourself unfortunately to a compare and contrast that I would think would be naive when applied to the whole of Somalia rather than a town in the south.

Like I said, I like to deal with specifics. I gave you a specific situation of leadership conflict and how it was resolved peacefully. Whereas in the warlords days and even in the TFG, blood would flow in streams. Kismaayo region not only has millions of inhabitants , but is a direct microcosm of the complex and intricate nature of Somalia due it's diverse clan constituencies, therefore it's actually naive of you to neglect it's significance and call it a town in the south.

 

That exact same model of conflict resolution will be magnified and implemented all over Somalia.

 

Who do you support in the current conflict ? Straight answer please.

 

P.S.: Saying: "Nobody, I support the Somali people" is a cop-out answer I will not accept.

[Liqaye]

Kashafa I had not realised what a slippery customer you are, I have not asked you WHEN the amir will be choosen but how, this does not require any psychic ability but the ability to extrapolate from evidence that I thought you had more of than I did.

 

I support the winner.

[Kashafa]

^^ Good. So when the Islamic State of Somalia is announced, I expect you to be a enthusiastic supporter and I also expect you to come back to the homeland to volunteer your knowledge and expertise in your particular field.

 

Let us not forget we have a country to rebuild after this necessary war of liberation is over.

[Liqaye]

Please do me the pleasure of not lecturing me.

 

I have already spent the better part of the past three years in volunteering my knowledge and expertise in my homeland, and I will continue to do so regardless of the flavor of the government of the day.

 

In the event that the Islamic state of Somalia is announced my support will encompass the whole gamut including constructive criticism and all the prerequisites of somalinimo.

 

Now can you please tell me WHAT the difference between Al-shabaab and Xisbul Islam?

[bint hamid]

i don't have a whole lot of political information and this topic is clearly made by people who have a lot more knowledge than i do. but i think that the goal of the courts is sharia and the goal of shabaab is sharia. and the alternative is what? like crazy democracy where women have twins with two different baby daddys? if that is democracy then i would rather have sharia and live islam every day.