Ciidamada Dowladda Somalia

[Gordon Gekko]

Even though this is serious times that doesnt ask for laughter - LOL @ Pi; "I bet he slams his keyboard and head-butts his screen while he types". Pi, your priceless.

[ANWAR]

HERE IS MY DREAM ARMY FOR SOMALIA

 

[Didi Kong]

Kashafa,

 

Your thought processes and the way you approach conflict in general is quite a spectacle. And this is not restricted to you alone. "Your uncle", "Your tribe", "Your tol", "Your Social Gatherings" are all very commonly employed phrases here in the SOL politics section. You and others nomads could've easily addressed those you disagree with as the nomads who believe 'the ends justify the means'. Just an example don't get all riled up. But the fact you want to highlight their affiliations speaks volumes. I realize it is not something you can help it's etched in your psyche but try and find more constructive ways of approaching the problem at hand.

[Kashafa]

"Your uncle", "Your tribe", "Your tol", "Your Social Gatherings" are all very commonly employed phrases here in the SOL politics section.

Thanks for letting me know that those phrases are hitting home, it just validates and confirms my thoughts. The ol' "meel bugta aa isku taabatay". The others resisted bravely, but you had to raise the white flag and cry foul. Why highlight the importance of 'tolka', you ask ? Simple. That is the one parameter of discussion that unites the vocal dhabo-dhilifs on SOL. It wouldn't be an issue if there was an healthy mix together with sound arguements. All I see tho, is blatant clannist rhetoric coupled with Yey-worship. Where the heck are Gheedi's click, yo ? lol Let's not kid ourselves. There is one reason and only one reason why you and others are supporting the TFG and the Etho occupation of Somalia. It has been covered, commented on, highlighted, and discussed a zillion times. I don't have to spell it out for you. You're close if you're nodding along with me.

 

I give you points on subtly tryna call me a tribalist . Good job. I now join the honourable ranks of other "They hate us" esteemed nomads like Nur, Xiin, Paragon, Tahliil, Mujaahid Red Sea, Northerner, among many others. What do they all share in common ? "They hate Adeer Yey and the dhabo-dhilifs, therefore they hate me. I am an indivisible part of Aabo Cabdullahi. Hate him, you hate me, no more debate, you're a tribalist"

 

Aight, Didi. As long as you play it real and raw like that, we're cool. Just don't hide behind noble words like "peace and stability" and "dawladnimo"

[Captain Xalane]

One cannot purchase honor!

[Didi Kong]

Kashafa,

 

You should thank me for pointing out to you your naiveness and presumptuous nature instead. This is the internet sxb. Insha Allah we shall have peace, stability and dawladnimo very soon.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

Point-ka,

 

Yes, my passion for justice and disgust at dhabo-dhilif cheerleading for my country's destruction is indeed running high. That should be the default position of anybody with an ounce of Islamnimo or basic humanity.

I meant partisan passion but if you like your reference go ahead. As to 'ounce of Islamnimo' - please. This self-righteous tone is getting tiring. Your political position = 100% islamnio and those on the other side = 0%. This type of blanket statement is a big part of what's wrong in the Politics section.

 

There's politics and then there's what we're witnessing on SOL past few days, which if I'm not mistaken, you've been position-less on. The worst fighting in Mogadisho in 15 years, yet you remain silent ? And then whistle a red card at North and others because they've

overstepped the boundaries of pleasent discussion

, or something to that effect ?

I'm not position-less - I just haven't stated my position on the current events of late. But apparently not broadcasting one's position with cheap insults and blanket condemnation is something you can't seem to understand? If you want my position simply ask.

 

I simply queried North on why he 'joined' the insult crowd - it's as simple as that. And is there some prohibition on my 'red-carding' anyone I wish to? And how do insults add to one's case - it just makes you look like another half-baked loony.

 

 

I can understand if you don't wanna mix it up in the politics section, cuz it can get ugly. But stepping in to yell foul at something petty while purposely(in my view) ignoring the horrific events on the ground as well as the faults of the TFG camp, well, that just speaks for itself. And it doesn't spell neutrality or moderation.

I refrain from the Politics section generally unless there are intelligent discussions taking place. I have no desire to wallow in filth by exchanging insults and other crap with the 'regulars'. 'Purposely... ignoring' - this is just another sign of your desire for the "with us or against us" mentality. I'm not fond of such thinking - it's intellectually lazy at best.

 

As to neutrality - please provide evidence where I claimed neutrality. I'm not neutral - but I am flexible. Above all - I'm for peace. And I'm prepared to give this TFG a chance despite my reservations about their actions, ethics, personalities etc. But instead of asking me for my position - you assume my supposed 'neutrality' and then rush to categorize me as 'hypocritical' etc.

 

No, I don't consider you an enemy. That said, I'm not the only one to have noticed your convenient 'neutrality' which is what I was highlighting in the my earlier post.

See above. Note - don't make assumptions before gathering evidence!

 

What I find even more odd - is this jumping to conclusion. By your estimate - I've chastised 2 people Paragon and Northerner(Nur's case was a request to keep politics out of Islam). So out of the many ICU supporters - I've 'red-carded' 2 and that breaks my neutrality(supposing I was neutral). If that isn't jumping the gun - I don't know what is.

 

Take a stand, articulate it, provide your reasoning, even inject a lil heat in it, but it all starts with taking a clear stand.

I have taken a stand. See my earlier posts - but it seems since you haven't seen my 'stand' of late - you jump to conclusions. And regardless of whether I take a stand or not - a minor call for civility somehow pisses you off yet you claim the 'islamnimo' mantle to you and your own.

What is that about?

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Northerner:

The Point

 

I would like to be excused from my usually easy going persona in the politics section. I will show no respect to those advocating for the bombardment of fellow Muslims/Somalis.

 

Do not expect fluffy words from me in these parts.

It's not about just showing respect for others. It's about showing self-respect. But then why the hell should I care eh? True - I just won't give a damn from now on.

[General Duke]

Nice video more and more troops will be trained and equiped soon insha Allah. The haters can cry all day, specially the secessionists who know they will never become a seperate country..

[N.O.R.F]

^^Is Somalia going to be a 'soveriegn' state? Wake up and smell the coffee or is the sugar two sweet?

 

TP, point taken laakin i will continue to ridicule these boys and their obvious leanings.

[Kashafa]

I have taken a stand. See my earlier posts - but it seems since you haven't seen my 'stand' of late - you jump to conclusions. And regardless of whether I take a stand or not - a minor call for civility somehow pisses you off yet you claim the 'islamnimo' mantle to you and your own.

What is that about?

Ok, seems like I understand you a little bit better now. What I am emphasizing, sxb, is that this isn't an academic intellectual exercise. This isn't debate class. Human beings are being slaughtered on the ground. A 'minor call for civility' at this particular time, especially if it's one-sided, can make people misunderstand you, justifiably so. Let's be frank. There is no civility, there was no civility, in the Politics section. Ever. Why raise the banner of respectability when the heat is on the TFG camp ?

 

My modus operandi is simple: Respect gets respect. Do not expect me to seriously entertain and politely refute, point-by-point, flaming clannists, who have nothing to contribute except caytin and qosol. They get nothing from me except ridicule. I'll reserve my brain cells for people like you who although I may disagree with(or simply not know where they stand ), at least can provide a structured responsed without bleating: Clan Courts or Secessionist or Looted Properties at any post they are incapable of responing to. I wouldn't blame them. How in the world does a sane Somali Muslim justify allying with and inviting in Arch-gaalo and use their weapons to kill other Somali Muslims. It's an impossible position, hence, their resorting to name-calling and qosol-gareer. Of course, I guess a flexible open-minded person like you would view that impossible position as a feasible acceptable stance, eh ? That's where we differ, you and I.

 

To be honest, I still don't know where you stand. I read all of of your recent posts and could discern nothing about your views on the nature of this conflict. You frequently ask questions(one-sided, in my view) and don't provide clear-enough responses. Flexibility is a choice euphemism for a unprincipled stand. I don't think it's too difficult, sxb. Here try these straightforward questions out.

 

1- Do you support Abdullahi Yusuf, the man, the clannist, the beholden-to-Etho-interests lackey ?

 

2- Do you support the invasion/invitation(depending on how you see it) of the Ethiopian troops ?

 

3- Do you support the indiscriminate shelling and bombarding of Mogadisho(no ifs or buts) ?

 

4- Do you support the active killing and targeting of all and any armed Ethiopian soldiers on Somali soil

 

5- During the December war between the Islamic Courts and the Tikrey/TFG alliance, who did you support ? Why ?

 

 

Runtii, sxb. It ain't too hard. Brief, direct answers will do. Once you're able to clarify your stance, our discussion can move forward with clear parameters and no need of 2nd-guessing.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

This isn't debate class. Human beings are being slaughtered on the ground. A 'minor call for civility' at this particular time, especially if it's one-sided, can make people misunderstand you, justifiably so. Let's be frank. There is no civility, there was no civility, in the Politics section. Ever. Why raise the banner of respectability when the heat is on the TFG camp ?

Actually - it is a debate forum not class. And this is where we, Somalis, educated, hopefully intelligent discuss rationally and politely the future of our country. Let's face it - we all live comfortably in the West - we can hardly claim to feel 'their pain' etc.

 

If people misunderstand - they should seek clarification not jump to quick conclusions.

 

There is little civility in the Politics section - but there are a number of individuals in it who are civil - Baashi, Xiin, Ngonge etc. Northerner usually is too - hency my query. I wondered why his posts deteriorated which led to a further deteterioration of the section. Simple as that. No witchhunt against ICU folks, no breaking of my supposed 'neutrality' etc.

 

My modus operandi is simple: Respect gets respect. Do not expect me to seriously entertain and politely refute, point-by-point, flaming clannists, who have nothing to contribute except caytin and qosol. They get nothing from me except ridicule.

It's odd - you are so contemptous of the 'flaming clannists' and their posts yet you continually engage with them and reply to their posts in a like(rude) manner. Are you sure you're on the moral highground with those tactics?

 

I'll reserve my brain cells for people like you who although I may disagree with(or simply not know where they stand ), at least can provide a structured responsed without bleating: Clan Courts or Secessionist or Looted Properties at any post they are incapable of responing to.

If you re-read the posts of most ICU supporters - you will find like responses. Principally - 'adeero', 'Yey, Yey, Yey', 'Puntland', 'dhabo-dhilif', 'gaalo-rac', 'traitors', 'stooges' etc. I don't believe either set of responses has any intelligence.

 

To be honest, I still don't know where you stand. I read all of of your recent posts and could discern nothing about your views on the nature of this conflict. You frequently ask questions(one-sided, in my view) and don't provide clear-enough responses.

See below for my stand but I provided some samples below(you may have to scroll for the full positions)

Sample 1

 

Sample 2

 

Flexibility is a choice euphemism for a unprincipled stand. I don't think it's too difficult, sxb. Here try these straightforward questions out.

LOL about the flexibility remark. How naive. In the business of governance and politics - one is ultimately trying to move the country forward. How to do that is something well-meaning people can differ on. If you are flexible - you will listen to and accept the idea of those who you disagree with generally if their idea is more sound than yours. If, however, you are inflexible - you will never accept an idea/stand that is better than yours simply because you oppose personalities. And thus your inflexibility has led to the country losing out possibly.

 

We're not talking about the existence of God or the persimibility of drinking alcohol here. At base - flexibility and good faith dealing - is about where to put the traffic lights in the town, how to allocate money, when to hold elections. If you're inflexible on these everyday political matters - you are arrogant and self-righteous. And whatever your views - you will not add any benefit to the good governance of the country or a discussion therein.

 

1- Do you support Abdullahi Yusuf, the man, the clannist, the beholden-to-Etho-interests lackey ?

No - I can't say I personally support A/Y. He strikes me as too much the dictatorial type. I do support the process that led to his election. He is not my ideal pick but I can live with it. Just as I don't support Harper or Bush personally but I support the process and its outcome.

 

Additionally - does A/Y have some monopoly on clannism that you felt necessary to mention it?

 

2- Do you support the invasion/invitation(depending on how you see it) of the Ethiopian troops ?

On balance - I do. There were 2 competing parties ICU and TFG and a political deadlock. Political deadlock is something Somalis have been familiar with for a decade plus and hasn't been beneficial. I had no desire to see that continue. The Ethiopians were a useful tool to break that political deadlock though a number of their actions are reprehensible.

 

3- Do you support the indiscriminate shelling and bombarding of Mogadisho(no ifs or buts) ?

No - I don't. The TFG and the Ethiopians used excessive force in the last few days and unnecessarily so in my opinion. You will note that the shelling, suicide car bombs, and downing of cargo planes using by RPGs is something the other folks engaged in to. I wonder if you support those actions?

 

4- Do you support the active killing and targeting of all and any armed

Ethiopian soldiers

on Somali soil

Absolutely not. Targetting and killing of Ethiopians leads to tit-for-tat retaliation and given the massive force the Ethiopians can bring to bear - not very intelligent. I've no desire to see Somalia become Iraq. Somalia has been a war zone for too long for me to support any actions that would prolong that and indeed make it much worse.

 

5- During the December war between the Islamic Courts and the Tikrey/TFG alliance, who did you support ? Why ?

I passively supported the TFG. I support that a long, intensive, inclusive and sometimes competitive process produced this TFG. The process has its flaws and the characters most definitely do but that is something to be worked on. I was not in support of self-appointed men who appropriated 'islamnimo' solely to themselves. I think that is a divisive and unwise stance.

 

Runtii, sxb. It ain't too hard. Brief, direct answers will do. Once you're able to clarify your stance, our discussion can move forward with clear parameters and no need of 2nd-guessing.

Hope that was brief and direct enough for you. I don't know why you assumed it was 'too hard'. Certainly not for me. Perhaps it was hard for you to stop jumping to conclusions and simply ask politely for clarification.

[Faarax-Brawn]

On balance - I do. There were 2 competing parties ICU and TFG and a political deadlock. Political deadlock is something Somalis have been familiar with for a decade plus and hasn't been beneficial. I had no desire to see that continue. The Ethiopians were a useful tool to break that political deadlock though a number of their actions are reprehensible

No - I don't. The TFG and the Ethiopians used excessive force in the last few days and unnecessarily so in my opinion. You will note that the shelling, suicide car bombs, and downing of cargo planes using by RPGs is something the other folks engaged in to. I wonder if you support those actions?

I passively supported the TFG. I support that a long, intensive, inclusive and sometimes competitive process produced this TFG. The process has its flaws and the characters most definitely do but that is something to be worked on. I was not in support of self-appointed men who appropriated 'islamnimo' solely to themselves. I think that is a divisive and unwise stance

There you have it Kashafa. A civilized, Cay free Point by Point version of what Xalane,Duke,Naxar & Violet have been saying all along.

 

Nothing different really yeah? Now,what will it be? Ridiculing Duke & his brigade or listening to a more toned, revised,civil & a Boring version of their rants? Be Honest

[ElPunto]

^When you can't grasp nuance and complexity - why bother inserting yourself in intelligent debate?

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

^When you can't grasp nuance and complexity - why bother inserting yourself in intelligent debate?

What is complex about supporting the TFG? The manner of delivery or the person delivering it?

 

You have actually articulated your opinion eloquently Adeer, Sadly & truthfully though,its just a toned down civilized version of what many of your bretheren have been saying. Is it good for the ears? You betcha! Good for the hearts of the affected Somalis? Dont think so Xaaji.

 

Perhaps Ethiopia was needed for the immidiete "political deadlock " as you put it, but did you think about the long term repurcussions this short sighted intervention will have on the future of the Somali republic? Surely,any hope of reconciliation is obviously tattered, No?