somali christians

[N.O.R.F]

i would rather demand a stats for the number of ppl abandoning their belif of origin

Yesterday, the number of reverts (mostly Americans) at the local masjid outnumbered the Arabs :eek:

 

Such statistics would be great but i doubt they are available. The best way of making such a measure is to simply walk the streets. I'm sure even you would accept the number of reverts to Islam greatly out number the apostates.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by J B:

That is what i call a well fought battle !!

 

Now , where are the Somali Christians? step forward and no matter what , Stay Somali .

I think this will separate the "wheat from the chaff" and will surely help in knowing "who is who".....thereby achieving "the thread's goal..

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

Percentage increases are of little consequence since a tiny cult religion can double or triple with the addition of a few converts.

 

Precisely! That's how religions grow from 0 adherents to millions -- by doubling, tripling, quadrupling their initial numbers. Conversely, if a religion of millions doubles or triples it's initial numbers, it adds millions of new followers. As you can see, percent increase is completely impartial (as it cuts both ways) data that only tells us how fast a religion is growing in set time period.

 

I'm afraid this topic is too esoteric for some. If you lack the appreciation and discriminatory aptness to analysis statistical data, you'll be running in circles like a dog chasing it's own tail.

 

 

Can we really arrive at reliable numbers for adherents added if the current number of adherents is so widely disputed?

 

For determining if Islam is fastest growing faith in the US, the ARIS survey more than suffices. The other numbers only give us snapshot of demographics, only one time shot of muslim numbers. Not enough to calculate rate growth.

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Northerner:

I'm sure even you would accept the number of reverts to Islam greatly out number the apostates.

I sure could have agreed as it really could be the case , but then what would that tell me about the correctness/trueness of Islam or Atheism? not much i guess, to be frank nothing.

Same thing goes for the moot point of Islam beeing the fastest growing religon in America.

 

Beside the temporary reassurance and the self satisfaction it might offer for a person who is already a beleiver but shelters a certain amount of skepticism, who needs that reassurance ( or gets a spritual kick of it), it says little or nothing about the empirical reality of the unvierse or the theological labyrinth that religions put forward for an eternal bliss.

 

I'm really disappointed that no Somali Christian is intrested in this thread.

 

[Edit]..

Brother Red Sea, You may spill the beans and name the Christian brothers among us that you can think of.

Maybe you can send them a convincing PM or pen down a line or two where you show beliving in the Father,the Son and the holy Spirit is degarading for a Somali person, so they can react.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by J B:

quote:Originally posted by Northerner:

I'm sure even you would accept the number of reverts to Islam greatly out numbers the apostates.

Beside the temporary reassurance and the self satisfaction it might offer for a person who is already a beleiver but shelters a certain amount of skepticism, who needs that reassurance ( or gets a spritual kick of it), it says little or nothing about the empirical reality of the unvierse or the theological labyrinth that religions put forward for an eternal bliss.

 

I'm really disappointed that no Somali Christian is intrested in this thread.

 

Brother Red Sea, You may spill the beans and name the Christian brothers among us that you can think of.

Maybe you can send them a convincing PM or pen down a line or two where you show beliving in the Father,the Son and the holy Spirit is degarading for a Somali person, so they can react.

JB

I am sure you are talking about the "few" who have skepticism about Islam itself as a religion...most of those skepticism are personal and "answers" have not been sought for..

 

My point comes handy,

 

I have many times argued about the need to go back to studying Islam again based on "Rational" criticisms it deserves, as a religion in itself...with "divine" inspiration it contains,....but to say that Islam doesn't contain/address the eternal "plan" for it's followers is just plain "cheap"...

 

waan Kabaxay....

[Legend of Zu]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

quote:Originally posted by ThePoint:

Percentage increases are of little consequence since a tiny cult religion can double or triple with the addition of a few converts.

 

Precisely! That's how religions grow from 0 adherents to millions -- by doubling, tripling, quadrupling their initial numbers. Conversely, if a religion of millions doubles or triples it's initial numbers, it adds millions of new followers. As you can see, percent increase is completely impartial (as it cuts both ways) data that only tells us how fast a religion is growing in set time period.

 

I'm afraid this topic is too esoteric for some. If you lack the appreciation and discriminatory aptness to analysis statistical data, you'll be running in circles like a dog chasing it's own tail.

 

No Sxb..Percentage are only impartial if the numbers are close enough...Where you are comparing a large number to small number the limitations of the percentile comparison is exposed hence there is what is called weighting... a Wieghted percentage change is applied....

 

For example

if 5 becomes 15 = 200% growth

1 Billion = 1.2 Billion = 20% now you can't compare the two, can you?

 

Therefore the Only religion that grew more than Islam is Buddism... well...You above statement was not entirely correct (in statistical terms)

 

Cheers

[Castro]

Originally posted by J B:

I'm really disappointed that no Somali Christian is intrested in this thread.

"Efforts at Christian mission have met with little success. The Somali are a very proud group and associate Christianity with people whom they regard as inferior. There are only a few hundred Somali Christians worldwide. Somali Christians are despised."

 

Source

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Legend of Zu:

No Sxb..Percentage are only impartial if the numbers are close enough...

 

Then, how do you decide fastest growing religion? Because if you recall, that question is what spawned this protracted discussion. According to Northerner, Islam is fastest growing religion in the West. I countered that at least in the case of States, the stats show otherwise. In the process of repudiating Northerner, I used percent growth. Reason being, percent growth convey the true rate of growth or the speed at which a religion is adding new members. A large religion will always add more followers so long as it experiences net positive growth than a small religion by virtue of having larger members. This, regardless of how fast the smaller religion is growing. It's like 2 cars at race track one having considerable head start than the other and asserting the one ahead is moving faster by mere virtue of being ahead of the second (I know this is crappy analogy but I hope it drives home the arguement I'm trying to marshal).

 

 

I google searched fastest growing and got Googlepedia of returns. All the returns I checked addressing rates of growth for many things use percent growth. Hmmm, wonder why that is

 

 

100 fastest growing tech companies

 

100 fastest growing US counties

 

Fastest growing cities

 

 

For example

if 5 becomes 15 = 200% growth

1 Billion = 1.2 Billion = 20% now you can't compare the two, can you?

 

No, I can't compare. No one ever attempted to do such thing. But let me ask you this: if both cases maintain their current growth rates (200% and 20% respectively), and all other things being equal, will there ever be a time when both will have equal numbers?

 

 

Therefore the Only religion that grew more than Islam is Buddism... well...You above statement was not entirely correct (in statistical terms)

If you used the Stats I provided, you'll find Islam is 4th after the following: Christianity, Budhism and Hinduism.

 

From 1990 to 2001

 

-Christianity increased by 7 million from 151,225,000 to 159,030,000

 

-Budhism increased by a whopping 600k from 401,000 to 1,082,000

 

-Hinduism increased by 500k from 227,000 to 766,000.

 

source

[Legend of Zu]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

 

Then, how do you decide

fastest growing religion

? Because if you recall, that question is what spawned this protracted discussion. According to Northerner, Islam is fastest growing religion in the West.

Notherner has already conceded and my response was not related to his argument. What my point of contention was your comment about statistics

 

percent growth convey the true rate of growth or the speed at which a religion is adding new members.

Well again that is not correct specially if you are comparing the growth of large number and small number. I have alreay mentioned you need to weight them!

 

A large religion will

always

add more followers so long as it experiences net positive growth than a small religion by virtue of having larger members.

Again wrong...the Judaism in this data has reversed in growth i.e. negative (shrunk). you will admit that Judaism is second largest religion in the States

 

I google searched

fastest growing

and got Googlepedia of returns. All the returns I checked addressing rates of growth for many things use percent growth. Hmmm, wonder why that is

Well I was expecting lil bit more scientic explanation from you. it is like when someone asks about your weight and you reply in Kilos...Obviously in the physics world they don't measure weight in kilos, do they?

 

For example

if 5 becomes 15 = 200% growth

1 Billion = 1.2 Billion = 20% now you can't compare the two, can you?

 

No, I can't compare. No one ever attempted to do such thing. But let me ask you this: if both cases maintain their current growth rates (200% and 20% respectively), and all other things being equal, will there ever be a time when both will have equal numbers?

...I am not sure if my PC is able to calculate that but you will expect 000' [if not millions] years before the smaller outgrows the bigger!

 

Now below is where things get more complicated

 

If you used the Stats I provided, you'll find Islam is 4th after the following: Christianity, Budhism and Hinduism.

 

From 1990 to 2001

 

-Christianity increased by 7 million from 151,225,000 to 159,030,000

 

-Budhism increased by a whopping 600k from 401,000 to 1,082,000

 

-Hinduism increased by 500k from 227,000 to 766,000.

Well.. SB I dunno how Islam is fourth? even I ignore the statistical gaffes, how did you end up saying Hinduism is third while it grew by 539K and Islam is fourth with +577K

 

Well.....

 

Cheers

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Legend of Zu:

I have alreay mentioned you need to

weight

them!

 

What's the point? And please explain what weighting them means.

 

 

 

Again wrong...the Judaism in this data has reversed in growth i.e. negative (shrunk). you will admit that Judaism is second largest religion in the States

 

According to the Stats I provided, yes. Not all negative percentage growth tranlates into losing followers. That depends on the overall rate of growth of the populatin at large.

 

 

 

I am not sure if my PC is able to calculate that but you will expect 000' [if not millions] years before the smaller outgrows the bigger!

 

At last! A complete concession of your entire arguement by agreeing that at some point if both scenarios remain on the same trajectory, the one growing 200% will take over the other. Which is only possible if the 200% one is growing faster than the 20% one. As I've been saying all along. What exactly is your disagreement then?

 

 

Well..

SB

I dunno how Islam is fourth? even I ignore the statistical gaffes, how did you end up saying Hinduism is third while it grew by 539K and Islam is fourth with +577K

Upsy-daisy! Islam is ahead of Hinduism but Islam is still 4th according to the link I provided. Non-religious/secular, which is listed as religion, is largest. Since I earlier relinquished this category as valid (for arguendo), I'll drop it again and move Islam up to 3rd.

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by RendezVous:

JB

I am sure you are talking about the "few" who have skepticism about Islam itself as a religion...most of those skepticism are personal and "answers" have not been sought for..

 

My point comes handy,

 

I have many times argued about the need to go back to studying Islam again based on "Rational" criticisms it deserves, as a religion in itself...with "divine" inspiration it contains,....but to say that Islam doesn't contain/address the eternal "plan" for it's followers is just plain "cheap"...

 

waan Kabaxay....

Ha ka bixin bro RendezVous.

 

Before we come to your handy point and undress your scarecrow where you brilliantly smash the non-existant statement of "Islam doesn't contain/address the eternal "plan" for it's followers ", mind you putting forwards your stats ( this thread is turning into a stats thread ) that confirm that it is " FEW " belivers that shelter certain amount of skepticism?

 

I'm of the idea that it is almost impossible to beleive that there is no single beleiver who dosen't shelter certain amount of skepticism towards her/his to be Faith becouse the contrary demands 100% absolute certainity ( percentage again ).

 

I don't know how you can conclude that it is the fault of those skeptics not to have sought answers, while admitting that the level of ones skepticism is pesonal without you coming across as a slightly overconfident person who have all the answers.

 

Taking the notion that " The answer is there in the Quran or the Hadith" without the slightest ambiguity it naturally takes defeats the very purpose of finding out. :cool:

 

Originally posted by Castro:

The Somali are a very proud group and associate Christianity with people whom they regard as inferior. There are only a few hundred Somali Christians worldwide. Somali Christians are despised."

In another words Somalis are in it for not only the Faith but the identity as well ?! , hence an uphill battle for Christianity.

 

Since Islam hasen't only defeated the local Somali theological herritage, but seems to even have culturally penetrated the Somalis to the point of identity crisis, a renaissance of the old literature would be intresting.

 

I even find in modern liturature, passages like :

"Akhiraba nimaan geel leheyn lama amaneyne" very intresting.

 

P/S .. never forget to pay the DSL bill.

[N.O.R.F]

JB

 

I sure could have agreed as it really could be the case , but then what would that tell me about the correctness/trueness of Islam or Atheism? not much i guess, to be frank nothing.

Same thing goes for the moot point of Islam beeing the fastest growing religon in America.

It will show you what you wish it to. Some people become curious as to why, while others shrug there shoulders and repeat 'i know whats best for me' to themselves. Ie they are stubborn!

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by J B:

quote:Originally posted by RendezVous:

JB

I am sure you are talking about the "few" who have skepticism about Islam itself as a religion...most of those skepticism are personal and "answers" have not been sought for..

 

My point comes handy,

 

I have many times argued about the need to go back to studying Islam again based on "Rational" criticisms it deserves, as a religion in itself...with "divine" inspiration it contains,....but to say that Islam doesn't contain/address the eternal "plan" for it's followers is just plain "cheap"...

 

waan Kabaxay....

Ha ka bixin bro RendezVous.

 

Before we come to your handy point and undress your scarecrow where you brilliantly smash the non-existant statement of "Islam doesn't contain/address the eternal "plan" for it's followers ", mind you putting forwards your stats ( this thread is turning into a stats thread

) that confirm that it is " FEW " belivers that shelter certain amount of skepticism?

 

I'm of the idea that it is almost impossible to beleive that there is no single beleiver who dosen't shelter certain amount of skepticism towards her/his to be Faith becouse the contrary demands 100% absolute certainity ( percentage again

).

 

I don't know how you can conclude that it is the fault of those skeptics not to have sought answers, while admitting that the level of ones skepticism is pesonal without you coming across as a slightly overconfident person who have all the answers.

 

Taking the notion that " The answer is there in the Quran or the Hadith" without the slightest ambiguity it naturally takes defeats the very purpose of finding out. :cool:

 

Originally posted by Castro:

The Somali are a very proud group and associate Christianity with people whom they regard as inferior. There are only a few hundred Somali Christians worldwide. Somali Christians are despised."

In another words Somalis are in it for not only the Faith but the identity as well ?! , hence an uphill battle for Christianity.

 

Since Islam hasen't only defeated the local Somali theological herritage, but seems to even have culturally penetrated the Somalis to the point of identity crisis, a renaissance of the old literature would be intresting.

 

I even find in modern liturature, passages like :

"Akhiraba nimaan geel leheyn lama amaneyne" very intresting.

 

P/S .. never forget to pay the DSL bill.

JORJ BUS(I can't understand your Ingris)

 

But have u ever read Chapter 4:82 of the Holy Quraan which is NEVER in any way contradicting your statements