Thank you, folks:). If I find the complete text of his speech in 2003, I will post parts of Dr. Mahathir Mohamed speech at the OIC where he admonishes muslims to pay close attention to our economic state and lift ourselves from this second class human status. Originally posted by Pi: Man, I never violently nodded my head in agreement before. Well said, Naden. Bravo Naden

I think a good deal of these laws come as a way to appease the Jewish populace given that European country(ies) started and then supported the genocide of WWII. Neo-nazi sentiment is always under the surface in most Western European countries.

I wasn't going to add any more to this topic but since the brother has a direct question to people who don't find this cartoon issue to be forefront in the struggle of the ummah, I will address it. I recall in the seerah about how the Sahaba went about protecting the Rasul (sallahu caliyhe wasilm) The prophet (pbuh) was under direct and physical threat, to curb his message and slaughter his followers. If you refer to surat al-anbiya'a, you will find the struggles of prophets before him documented. Their struggles against non-believers are similar and he was triumphant. Look at us, we are more than a billion strong. Did he fulfill his destiny and bring the word of his lord against calamitous obstacles? Yes. What state is his ummah in? You answer that question. Is it his responsibility? No. Is it yours and mine and every other muslims? Answer that one too. I think at times, how do some of the muslims who view this Cartoon subject to be 'frivilous/trivial' or not worthy of 'Too much' attention, expect to get to Jannah. This is what it is all about? A chance to collect brownie points to endear yourselves to God when judgement comes. Maybe it will work. This subject of cartoons is not only a trivial one but a serious distraction from the political and economic belittlement of the muslim ummah. Get this through your small, collective, and self-serving indignities. Think back to your school days in elementary school. Picture this: a snivelling child in tattered clothes (his parents are dirt poor), his bag spills its contents at every turn and his lunch is a laughable mess that he must endure with kids laughing and pointing. Got that in your heads. Now think about all the kicks, punches, and sneers he gets. Teachers don't give a damn, his poor distracted parents would never show up to complain. This is where we are. I've already spoken about the real threats to muslims in every region so I won't again. The Rasul (sallahu calihe wasilm) should never, ever.....ever....be a 'drag' in our lifes. His Honor is our Duty as Muslims and we protect it THROUGH character, through words, through our actions etc.... His honour? To whom? Why is his honour in the eyes of non-believers so important? His message, the message of God means more, you would think. But wait, we muslims tend to worry so much about our image in the eyes of western/white folks so this is just a hissy fit to get into their good graces again. A more important question as an ummah, I would think, than a couple of cartoons would be how our Kuwaiti brothers and sisters allowed armies to assemble and murder 100,000 muslims or SA continued to supply oil to those doing the murdering. Get off your lame beds and ask the more difficult questions, brownie points are for sissies. I just can't think of a Bigger issue that the Muslim Ummah has faced in our life time. That is your limitation, brother. Oh no wait, that is your choice.

Katrina, couldn't agree more! Where in the hell does it say in the sharia/quran that you marry a woman and then throw her to the curb to marry another? This is called a zawag-muta'a (pleasure matrimony) and is intensely forbidden. How in the world do you build a family (the supposed template for the ummah) when the man doesn't hold still? Why is it allowed here? Because he's Saudi? Because he's rich? What the hell! :mad: Originally posted by Katrina: [bPlease do tell us. His goal is to marry 60 wives. He's intentionally manipulated a sharia law to justify his personal pleasures, ego and fetish. Is it legal? yes. Is it right? No. It's a game to this old man per his words. Everyone sure as hell knew what CG meant but yet you both decide to take it out of content and nit pick. UOTE]54 women are divorced for no reason other than to make room for one more new p!ssy, disgusting abuse of sharia law. Does this behavior emulate our prophet's (PBUH) intentions?

Not sure if I walked into a prior argument on gender between you and Katrina but how did I offend, brother Castro? Not sure if I ever gave an impression that I was a guy. Hmmmmmmm :confused: .

Katrina, she is a she but get called sir all the time as I stand a little over 5'11". Comrade Castro's political views are a strong match to mine. Humor serves me well as I witness social justice clobbered all over the universe.

Right on! This reminded me of my horror during the invasion in March 2003. I couldn't believe it, kept screaming at my TV screen: where is the presidential guard? where are the soldiers? Not even a single lowly, fat traffic cop to defend the downtown of Baghdad. I was on my knees in humiliation, dear god help us all. Now I know where they are. Fight on and burn away, brothers.

Must be delightful for young girls to be married to this prune of an old man. Sheeet.

Nice and fastened, thanks for the warning . Originally posted by Castro: ^ You don't happen to have a helmet handy, do you? Yes? Wear it.

We appear to be debating two different things. Pls don't try to take my comments as trying to incite an agrument or bully you or hate on you. I am not. Its just that as humans, we tend to become COMPLACENT (accepting) of our CIRCUMSTANCES and as members of the Muhammedan Ummah We are not Muhammedans, we are members of the Muslim ummah, Mohammed (pbuh) was our messenger. He delivered the message. This thing has United muslims and Divide some b/c it just brings things to the forefront It has? How? What issues of concern to muslims (other than that we do not depict God and the prophet in pictures) did it bring to the forefront? I think our opinions differ on what should be the concern of muslims as an ummah so I will leave it at that. HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLINGLY TO DO FOR THE PROPHET (salallau calihe wasilm) ? Nothing. The rasuul (pbuh) did his work and will be in heaven. My concern is how much I am able to do for my fellow muslims when opportunities arise.

Well said! They are debt collectors. My guess is that these actions, organized or not, will continue in some form or another for years to come. The CIA is probably impatient with these kidnappings and interruptions already and the oil companies are lobbying like mad to add Nigeria to the unstable, potentially ready for emancipation countries. African countries, in general, have been well controlled through mercenaries organizing/squashing coups for decades. Don't forget to add the incitement of religious strife - divide and conquer - courtesy of colonial times as seen here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4728616.stm Originally posted by Castro: ^ How long do you think this latest "insurgency" of the locals will last then? ........If these Nigerians find any success in disrupting oil supplies for any extended period of time or make oil prices rise significantly, watch how Nigeria will suddenly become a nation "close" to developing nuclear weapons. Then the marines (the amphibious debt collectors) will arrive to "spread democracy" and "free" the Nigerian people.

My priorities are intact, thank you very much. How about this question: What would the rasuul (p.b.u.h) say and do about fellow muslims bombed daily and forced to live as second class citizens in countries all over the world? How would he react to that in comparison to idiotic cartoons from a non-believer? Exaltation of the rasuul is a duty, we must temper it with reason or else we are on a very dangerous slope to deifying him (as has happened in another faith). He was a man who brought our message and non-believers will always target him for ridicule. That is their folly. Our fall as an ummah will not come from these cartoons but from the maiming and decimation of muslims. Naden, Where are your priorities?

To add insult to serious injury, Sara Wiwa was a poet, vocal in his defence of his people's rights and struggle and known in the world. Imagine the audacity of hanging a man like that to death. Imagine, then, what happens to the thousands not known. Originally posted by Castro: ^ Remember Ken Sara Wiwa? He was hung by Royal Dutch Shell, oops, I mean the Nigerian government in the 1990s. His, however, was a peaceful struggle not unlike that of Dr. Martin Luther King. Here's the lesson boys and girls, whether you march in peace or kidnap foreigners and torch oil tankers, the end result is the same: they will kill you. Martin, Ken and Malcom were assassinated and so will Godswill Tamuno, the military leader of the Mend movement. Still, that should not be a deterrent to continue the struggle. I think it was Lincoln who said: You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

Agreed. If they slaughter each other later on, so be it. So long as the grubby paws of Shell and Exxon are out of there along with their slimy multinational middlemen.

Card-carrying and proud, comrade . Have been since about 9 years old when tried to organize a group complaint against a particularly psychotic and abusive teacher. Didn't work and got the crap beaten out of me but will never give up. Originally posted by Castro: ^ You are a communist then. My evidence is your use of the word "masses".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4726680.stm How long do you think it would be before mercenaries hired by oil companies and their investors (a la Thatcher's son), guided by NGOs, supported by westen governments will go in and decimate them? I am secretly and publicly rooting for them. If their people can't get the oil, then no one should.

Castro, I am just learning about these diffuse attacks on hapless masses, which are then supported by fictional statistics. Originally posted by Castro: ^ Naden, you're here to subvert the no spell-check culture on SOL, aren't you? The heathenism inherent in the use of a dictionary or a thesaurus is well documented. I encourage you to refrain from using sarcasm to get your point across. You might just be mistaken for a numskulled pseudo cerebral mongrel bij.

I suggest you grab a crow bar and crack that dictionary sucker open, it might help with your spelling. Don't throw around statistics without substantiation....how do you like them apples, straight from a thesaurus. Originally posted by nuune: Actually, I will say 45% of Soler's fall into that category, out of that 30% are ladies trying to use whatever they can find in dictionary.com theasures and so on! okey, that is reality, so if u r happen to be one of those, nothing to be ashamed of. but alot of smartness(me smart than u)going on here nowadayz, it is easy to identify those who abuse the words

No sense in comparing the two, Laba_Xiniinyood. The prophet (p.b.u.h) is very important to all muslims. It is a given. The thousands dying and humiliated reduce both the number, dignity and survival of the ummah. The rasuul was sent to send the message of hope and salvation to his people and others who would come after him. What are we as muslims doing to defend the faithful, other than scream about some ill-conceived cartoons from a non-believer? Shouting in the streets carrying signs, hoping to collect brownie points to get into heaven. Originally posted by Laba_Xiniinyood: Seriously, this is enough of the ****** cartoons! How about this for offensive: hundreds of thousands of muslims are at risk of starvation in East Africa. Thousands more will drown in 2006 trying to get away from despotic regimes. ...Naden, Maybe the ONE prophet(p.b.u.h) is more important to us than the thousands who are at risk of starvation and the thousands drowning!

This is not directed at the person who started the thread so please don't take it personally. Seriously, this is enough of the ****** cartoons! How about this for offensive: hundreds of thousands of muslims are at risk of starvation in East Africa. Thousands more will drown in 2006 trying to get away from despotic regimes. Ordinary Iraqis are bombed fortnightly, others blow up in the streets while countless others are in detention centers without representation or even acknowledgement. No one will ever know of their fate.The same can be said for Afghanis. Muslims in Nigeria and the Niger delta will continue to suffer unparalled poverty despite the region's oil wealth. We've expressed our outrage at the cartoons and our Pakistani brothers seem to have lost their minds in their protests of late(I won't even bring up their abject state of poverty). Maybe these English brothers and sisters can put the plight of muslims on their placards tomorrow. The dignity of Islam is in the dignity of the muslim as well. Not much dignity in what is happening to millions of muslims. Just a thought.

Interesting thread, Castro! Didn't think for one moment that I would be debating theodicy as an explanation for a drought in 2006 given what we know about weather patterns and so on. Originally posted by Castro: naden, here's how Alle-ubaahne and I met. It was on a similar topic. It seems that both he and I are mysteriously attracted to such matters. After some trials and tribulations, we are now at peace with one another.

Natural catastrophes are divine as with all that is a creation of the almighty, just not defined and certainly not justified in terms of personal sin. You can pronounce me as anything you want as long as you don't call me a crazy islan as another brother did in an earlier thread . Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: ^So, to you nothing divine is justfied? I can pronounce you the second of the last wave of transformed science believers! :eek:

I am familiar with the definition of sin in the Quran but fail to see how a natural disaster can be explained in terms of individual sin. God says in his good book that "And if any one earns sin. he earns it against His own soul: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom." (Sura 4, Verse 111). No collective sin we have committed as Somalis, real or otherwise, is applicable, only individual sins that count against the individual. I don't know what you mean by UnSomali but I assure you there is no such thing as race and certainly not a Somali one. Unique, we certainly are. [/qb] If you think its not unusual, then you believe something that is allien to us. Our Islamic religion teaches us that the calamity and the hardships that befall on societies are nothing but accumulated sins. Sin is defined in Islam, its when the people/individuals deviate from their respective religion, i.e. Islam. I dislike to flirt with the game of assumptions, but its obvious from your expressions that you are looking things at an unsomalian way! We, somalis, are a race among the many races in this world, but more importantly an special race with many unique characteristics of historical significance. That is a fact you will never obtain from the books you read from. :cool: [/QB]

No, good Castro. It is drought, nothing more . East Africa's been hit in one way or another for the past 50 years. I don't believe the evil of some is making others die of thirst. If true, a great many of us would drop of thirst running through the mall of America, streets of Kenya or biking through suburbs of Amsterdam. Certainly not the unfortunate ones who are in Somalia tortured by alternating cycles of man-made and weather-made horrors. ^ You don't think this drought is a theodicy, good naden?

This drought is not unusual in the region and is devastating for our agrarian society, in the same way it would be for any other society. What sins are you talking about? Personal sins, tribal sins, lack-of-government sins? The only sin I could see if we don't help these folks whichever way we can. Those sending money home to their families are already doing good work. Helping Somalis we don't know is the next step. By the way, we Somalis are not a race. A national/ethnic group? Yes, but dear god not a race. Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: This looks the last storm by which if we don't repent from our sins, it will contain the remaining of our race in open grave yards. Ilaahow nacafi, You are The Most Merciful, indeed.