There is no question we've had a heterogenous historical experience and nomadic pastoralism is not the definite marker of Somaliness, I'm not arguing that. But what I am saying is that arguing the Somali literary canon is not one of orality is a losing argument. The valorization of the written word is something that emerged in a particular moment in European history - Enlightenment thought linking the act of writing to human reason and rationality - and it is only in that Western framework that the written is held in higher regard than the oral. You're right to point out that colonialism used these textual battles as "evidence" of the backwardness of Africans and their incapability of rational thought. But I think your response is defensive, which only reinscribes the supposed primacy of the textual. The Somali mode of literary production is primarily oral literature. There is nothing wrong with that, unless you believe writing is somehow better.

This is the worst idea I've ever heard, and this professor is an embarrassment to the profession. Nothing offends me more than when Somali professors retrench people's faith in academics and use their position to spew the same old BS.

Chimera;941402 wrote: LOL, to be fair its more of a case where the writer has played with time and put Italian and Portuguese in the same time-line. The indirect source was: "New Arabic documents from Somalia". Interesting, thank you Chimera;941402 wrote: I don't think we can make such a judgement on historic Somali literature yet, even the likes of I.M Lewis have admitted that it was impossible for them to acquire access to private libraries. There is still much we don't know, and all the patterns of superiority and prejudice evident in other nations/ethnicities' literature might very well be present in old Somali literature, including looking down on nomadism. I meant to say that oral literature *is* Somali literature for the most part. There has been Somali writing in other scripts and it's important to point that out because of the widespread assumption that Africans did not write, but it has never been the form of literary production we value as a society. Our literary canon is one of orality, Sayyid Mohamed, Raage Ugaas, Qaman Bulxan, Ali Dhuux, etc. It's just a very different cultural context from those in societies where illiteracy may have been widespread, but saw the writings of people like Alexandre Dumas as their canon nonetheless, despite most of them not being able to access the material.

Chimera;941388 wrote: The world was predominantly "oral" for much of history. The literacy rate in the Ottoman Empire for example was only 5%. Somalis had written books for centuries, there is even one that could be dubbed a steam-punk fantasy lol. (16th century Portuguese with steamships attacking Adal.) Umm Chimera you think you can tell me about a Somali steam punk-like story and not give me a citation so I can go read it? lol But yes, I agree with you on the point of literacy, but I think orality is more than simply the absence of writing. It's a worldview in many ways, a mode of thinking and communication. "High literature" in Somali culture is oral literature, whereas the literary production in societies with writing systems has always been textual and associated with cities and the upper classes (and oral forms like folk stories were seen as rural, lower class, etc art forms). Somali literature is almost a reverse of this, where we venerate the nomad and his oral verse. So it's not only a question of literacy but the forms of literary production societies emphasize and place value on.

Alpha Blondy;941378 wrote: are you now saying you have to claimed ethically and in accordance with recognised forms of sourcing? you're a cheap little cow's udder!. i'm NOT interested in you, anymore. ma garatay? The point in a love song is that YOU wrote it and the lyrics come from the heart, which is why I was touched by the gesture :mad: I never wanted you anyway.

Alpha Blondy;941360 wrote: for goodness sakes, this is NOT classroom, where you reign supreme! its a public forum and i can cut and paste....as, when, how, i see fit! ma garatay, you little waxaar.. :mad: Then send your plagiarized love songs to someone else :mad:

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;941340 wrote: Eebbe ha u raxmado Barakoow Buuloow. Jilaa weyn ayuu ahaa. By the way, check this thread . You will know what old members thought about this exact clip five years ago. And if you were that shocked, tana kusii darso: lmao I love it

What are you talking about, Alpha? lol

Alpha Blondy;941343 wrote: the truth of the matter remains, this: Wadani is a Dmitry Medvedev to Al's Putinism.....ee sida uula soco.:mad: You can't blame Wadani for this, no one forced you to plagiarize lyrics :mad:

Alpha, colonial thinking is the assumption that Africans did not and cannot write or think for themselves, which is what makes recovering these old texts produced by Somalis all the more historically significant. It is true that Somali society is predominantly an oral one, but that's not to say that some people were not literate in other languages and wrote in those scripts, either in those languages themselves or to transcribe Somali. Not only do we have some early English writings like this one, but there is an entire body of work which is Somali in Arabic script (something found across various Muslim societies in Africa, known as Ajami literature).

Tallaabo;941155 wrote: Very well said. You are very academic safferz. I like your take on things. Thanks Tallaabo SomaliPhilosopher;941331 wrote: Safferz, are you trying to provide me a glimmer of hope. Enough with the games sxb. I am done!! Hope is how you chose to interpret that information, but I was quite serious -- Wadani emphasizes the reer abti connection because he knows we don't share anything in the more important patrilineal sense

Wadani;940951 wrote: Alpha if u weren't so smug about ur little song, and hadn't called me out I wouldn't have exposed ur plagiarism...oh well. http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=343224979084758&story_fbid=415826188491303 Baby girl you are so Qurux Your face shines like Qorax You smell sweet like Ubax girl don't be like Dhagax I will hold you like Tusbax Baby girl use your Maskax Or i'll throw you like Qodax. Hahahahaaa Alpha what do you have to say for this? Waan ku nacay

Alpha Blondy;941305 wrote: ^ ok. thanks for clarifying. but its still written in English and its highly probable....... this secondary source, is not 100% 'concrete' Somali, since it was written posthumously. 100% or nothing, inaar. p.s - i meet and conversed with the son of Richard Pankhurst. alula was his name. lol it wasn't written posthumously, it was published posthumously. It is a primary source. Why not read the document before speculating Alpha?

Alpha Blondy;941263 wrote: technically speaking, this anthology of sorts is not Somali in origin. it was written by whites. cala kuli xaal...NONSENSE. It's not written by a white person, neither is it an anthology. It's an autobiography written in English by a Somali, with an introduction and historical context written by the British academic who found it and published it in its entirety.

SomaliPhilosopher;941055 wrote: Walahi Stoic you are a wise man. You hear that Wadani? The battle is not over yet!! I may also be part of *your* tribe, for all you know

*Blessed;941062 wrote: Did they close the Red Sea book store in Hargaisa? I think the book fair organisers were trying to address library issue- unfortunately libraries are not seen as a priority. I'm not sure, I just asked a lot of different people and inquired about older bookstores that used to be around and I was told they don't exist. But perhaps there are a few, and you can certainly find some books sold in other stores.

Wadani;941061 wrote: Great stuff. Thanks. No problem. Be sure to take anything Richard Pankhurst says about Somalis with a grain of salt, the man is an Ethiopian as far as I'm concerned lol. His mom Sylvia was awesome though.

Oh, forgot to add the autobiography is by a man named Ibrahim Ismail from the then British Somaliland Protectorate. It covers a number of things, like his childhood in northern Somalia and Aden, and his experiences as a seaman in the early 20th century.

SomaliPhilosopher;941056 wrote: How did you get the PDF? I did a quick google search after your post, couldnt seem to find it. Care to share some background on this book? Who wrote it? What script was it written in? ecttt por favor It was published in 1977 in a journal called Africa: Rivista trimestrale di studi e documentazione dell’Istituto italiano per l’Africa e l’Oriente that I was able to access online after some digging (I first learned about the autobiography in a footnote, then found the full autobiography). Richard Pankhurst does a good job of explaining the context there, before publishing the autobiography in its entirety. It was written in English, not Somali.

STOIC;941051 wrote: You must flattered by the attention from the shababs in this forum from our ever random alpha to this thread..Warya SP dhumar qabiil maaleeh iskaa ceeli nimaankaa...hahaa PS Though I'm senior..my Somali cultural music is limited..So no comment for the topic... I am flattered

SomaliPhilosopher;941053 wrote: Please do Safferz. May you share how you acquired it? I think I may have stumbled upon it reading some of Pankhurst's other work (not my favourite scholar and pro-Ethiopian but he has some good work). I wasn't able to attach it here since the file is too big, but I've linked it from my Dropbox account so hopefully this works: Part 1 and Part 2.

I have a file of perhaps the oldest written Somali memoir (in English) from 1928, "The Life and Adventures of a Somali," which was published by Richard Pankhurst in the 1970s. Really interesting stuff. Let me see if I can attach it here, otherwise I'll gladly email it to anyone who is interested.

lool Wadani, you do have the hometown advantage (both Toronto and Hargeisa), but I think you're projecting as much as poor SP here Can't I just keep playing the SOL field?

Please. Who said I ever agreed to a date with you SP?

SomaliPhilosopher;941033 wrote: Oba, I am going to have this song playing in my car to set the mood for my next date Is your date in the red light district?