Originally posted by J B: Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies and rivers at the bottom of it too? Forms have meaning and they don't have a 'subjective' meaning. They have a 'holistic' meaning that is not just one or two dimensional i.e. The Garden is Beautiful (cause I think it is beautiful-therefor, it must be beautiful). Rather, the Garden is Beautiful because it reflects certain Divine Attributes and serves a Divine Purpose and to appreciate that, we have to understand the relations (divine attributes) that give it the 'meaning' i.e. that THE Garden is Beautiful.

Salamz, When they said your attitude determines your altitude they didn't mean take shit and smile. ....Better yet pop your head into the meeting with your eyes open really wide and say "I see white people!!!" It definitely is true about 'Attitude determing your ALTITUDE' in the workplace...being a Miskeen/Miskeean isn't a good role to play. UD, or shall I call you 'CHAPPELLE!' that was funny, I see we put you back as MODERATOR for the Joke Forum.

Salams, This evening I was helping someone boost their car (young folks-18-24appx.) and the poor guy who was driving the car was panicking and started to call his father (parent's car-I assume!)...anyways, I told him not to call them and that this was a minor thing (car battery dying out)....I just remembered then and now, about myself, when I was younger and how I would have probably reacted similiarly (calling parent or friend for help and Panic in a moment of distress)...anyways, Alhamdulillah, it just made me appreciate the Hikmah of Allah and his promise that 'ALLAH is with those who are PATIENT' and that 'JUST HAVE TAQWA (CONSCIOUSNESS AND/OR FEAR OF ALLAH) and HE SHALL TEACH YOU (sura Al Baqra, at the end of the Inhertiance Ayat-Longest Ayat in the Quran) Allah's Apostle (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wasallam) said: "Strange are the ways of a believer for there is good in every affair of his and this is not the case with anyone else except in the case of a believer for if he has an occasion to feel delight, he thanks (God), thus there is a good for him in it, and if he gets into trouble and shown resignation (and endures it patiently), there is a good for him in it". Have any of you nomads had similiar 'epiphanies', 'realizations' about yourself, about how 'WITH AGE COMES WISDOM'... Fi Amanillah

Maybe... but it depends on : ATTENTION SPANS XAAL (MOOD OF THE PERSON) SITUATION (are they in the middle of 3 conversations ALL AT ONCE) BACKGROUND NOISE i.e. Their Computer station and the surrounding environment such as family etc. ENERGY LEVEL (are they tired?Is it the end of the day for them?)

Salamz, The Chat room is up and running again, for those that didn't know! So come on in and join the Party (as some call it) or the MOB (as others call it )

Salams, I would be interested in this thread!

Originally posted by Castro: ^ If anyone thinks I've posted 1300+ nuggets of wisdom, they're delluding themselves. So is it safe to say that your Full of Sh## and people shouldn't take your seriously! Afterall, we would be 'Delluding ourselves'. Thanks for the Honesty!

I also compared the somalis and the eurpoeans, I found that the eurpoeans have better morals. They dont lie, They respect you. Ofcourse There are also some good apsects of somali culture, They are very talkative and socially good. It has gone now 8 months since I prayed in a mosque, I've taken that desicion in my lifem, To never pray in a mosque with false people whom prey on each other. Somalia and Muslim Bashing- How much does it pay again? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by liibaan: Actually, it's scientifically impossible to kill yourself by holding your breath, so you might as well just wring his neck and get it over with quickly :eek: :eek:

Salamz, Mutakalim brother, you can help with this one, Suhrawardi has written something about the 'Islamic Garden', do you happen have information on it. Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Originally posted by Muhammad: any change that comes due to a new paradigm shift in a community, if it is based on fact, is a new response-ability. once that shift occurs, you better buckle up. this reminds me of an anthropologist who went into a jungle and found people who never left the jungle. when he was leaving, one man went with him, and when they left the jungle the man saw buffaloes grazing on the far distance. he turned to the anthropologist and asked; "are those things flies?" Considering the man lived in the jungle, am suprised that he never saw a Buffalo any change that comes due to a new paradigm shift in a community, if it is based on fact, is a new response-ability So you are in support of Change, if say it can show that the 'Change' will produce 'EFFICIENCY'. Correct me if I am wrong. But let me pose this question to you as a muslim, say for example the Myth of the 'Great Flood' and 'Noah's Arc' was proven to be False and could be proven to be otherwise, what would you of that because it would go against what scriptures have said and would ease people from 'scriptural teachings'. What if a grave was found in say Quba, outside of Medina and the body of the Prophet (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) was proven to be found and all the muslims shifted their attention from Medina to Quba etc. Wouldn't that have a drastic impact on Muslim History and the Sanctity of Medina. Surely, Medina would become 'Just another City' and all that 'Muslim History' would be questioned, if not ignored. Are you catching my drift here because this is really not about believing that the Earth is Flat....its more then that... Fi Amanillah

Originally posted by WaTerLily: Well, its already available here in the uk over the counter and has been for some time. You don't even need a doctor's prescription I think. It's called Lovenelle or something. They adveritsie it to death on the tube this time of year, with drinking and Xmas. And I don't think its unislamic, what proceeds it must be though if one is that desperate to get rid of the potential pregnancy. Let me get this straight A) Condoms help to PREVENT Pregnancy and Disease-Check b) Birth Control Pills helpt to Prevent Pregnancg-Check c) Plan B helps to Prevent Pregnancy-Check There, the majority of these methods (A-C), or 66.6%+ are there to PREVENT PREGNANCY . Can it be said then that: If Birth Control helps to prevent Pregnancy and makes a person SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE, then it is a good thing. If Plan B helps to prevent Pregnancy, and makes a person SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE, then it is a good thing. Therefore, Preventing Pregnancy is a good thing because it makes a person 'SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE' But is Social Responsiblity only defined through 'preventing pregnancy'? Does Plan B, Promote having Multiple Sexual Partners? Promote Hedonism? Oh...but those questions are secondary and at most times, irrevalant because SEXUAL ESPACADES/ROMPS are things that we can't Measure or Stop-Right! Especially, if you give the person more ARSENAL to go out and have 'Multiple Sexual Partners', because now, if they use something like PLAN B, they are more 'SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE'...never mind if they have sex with the whole 'town'[i/].

Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: I believe I was 11 years old when I endeavored into explaining the "earth is not flat" concept to another kid. I obtained a ball and gave details of my thought using a finger on the ball moving around the sphere and coming back to the same spot. As I was doing the demonstration, the kid seized the ball from me and said "well if I am on this ball and I move to the edge, how come I don't fall off. And if I fall where do I go? Hell? I smiled and told him “you won’t. Korontaa kugu dhegganâ€. We went for lunch. You have proven what I was trying to illustrate in this thread saxib....How do you explain that the earth is 'round' to say a desert nomad who has only roamed the 'sahara deserts' all his life...or how do you tell say a grandfather, who never let 'Berbera' etc. What benefits would it have to telling them that the 'earth is round' if they belief that it is 'flat'. If that myth-earth is flat, has kept them close to their home habitat, has kept them weary of 'Distance' and conscious of 'TIME'. Our sense of 'TIME' AND 'DISTANCE' has vastly changed now and has altered the makeup of society by way of Urbanization (you can be a family of 4, and all 4 of you live in some corner of the world, such that 'Distance' is not a question anymore because you 'purchase a ticket' at a drop of hat. This concept that the 'Earth is Round' has altered societies and has lead way to 'MODERN URBANIZED Societies' wherein, the concept of Family, the concept of Community has vastly changed. Just look at your neighbours and tell me how many you of them you know? Just tell me how many relatives live within a 'walking distance' from you?

Salams, Jazakallahu khayrun but those are mostly english websites and they don't have an extensive collection of 'Classical Islamic Books'.

) Maintaining speed In the Efimovich model, the planet Earth is supposed to be a large, spherical shaped ball of rock flying through space at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour. But how could the Earth continue to move at the same speed for as long a time as the "round Earthers" say that it has existed for; namely, several billion years. If outer space were a vacuum, then there would be no problem. But space is not a vacuum, it is instead filled with ether. The earth would have to have been pushing its way through the ether for all those billions of years. Shouldn't it have slowed somewhere along the line? What would keep the Earth from grinding down to a stop at some point on the Efimovichian timeline? 2) An accelerating world A second critical piece to the Efimovich model is that the Earth is not the center of the solar system either. It is, according to "round Earth" theory, orbiting the sun at a radius of around five-hundred million kilometers. Were this the case, the Earth would be an accelerated object in circular motion around its sun. And thereby are the problems introduced. The Earth accelerating in circular motion would behave no differently than would a car taking a corner: loose objects (humans and animals would act like loose change or a cup of coffee on the dashboard) would slide around, or be thrown off completely. There would be an apparent centrifugal force on everything. During the day, when things would be facing the sun and therefore on the inside of the "orbit", buildings would be crushed and humans beings squashed like grasshoppers in a centrifuge. And at night, when everything would be at the outside, trees and buildings would be ripped from the ground and flung into outer space, and humans wouldn't stand a chance. Obviously, there is a flaw in Efimovich's "orbit" theory. The impossibilities of holding unsecured objects in place on a curved surface 1) Staying on top Once again, picture in your mind a round world. Now imagine that there are two people on this world, one at each pole. For the person at the top of the world, (the North Pole), gravity is pulling him down, towards the South Pole. But for the person at the South Pole, shouldn't gravity pull him down as well? What keeps our person at the South Pole from falling completely off the face of the "globe"? 2) Falling off As we begin to make this argument, we acknowledge beforehand that we are aware of the property of matter known as friction. Yes, we realize that whenever two surfaces are held together by any force there will be a static frictional force that will resist any motion by either surface in any direction other than parallel to the force. The example we are using is an extreme situation, and would involve the object in question to travel a considerable distance (tens of degrees of latitude) from the "top" of the planet. Using the "round Earth" theory, setting an object on the earth would be like setting grains of sand on a beach ball. Certainly a few grains would stay - right around the top, the surface is nearly horizontal - but when you stray too far from the absolute top of the ball, the grains of sand start sliding off and falling onto the ground. The Earth, if round, should behave in exactly the same fashion. Because the top is a very localized region on a sphere, if the Earth were in fact round, there would be only a very small area of land that would be at all inhabitable. Stray to the outside fringes of the "safe zone", and you start walking at a tilt. The further out you go, the more you slant, until your very survival is determined by the tread on your boots. Reach a certain point, and you slide off the face of the planet entirely. Obviously, something is wrong. In order to avoid the aforementioned scenario, (which obviously is inaccurate, as you very rarely hear of people falling off the face of the planet) we are forced to assume that, in the "round Earth" theory, there would be a gravitational field radiating from the center of the planet. All objects, be they rocks, insects, humans, or other planets would have, under Efimovich's theory, have a gravitational "charge" that would, under a certain alignment, cause them to be attracted to the center of the Earth. Unfortunately, like a magnet in a stronger magnetic field, it would undoubtedly require a long time to re-align an object's gravitational charge, were this the case. And so we go to argument four, which deals with difficulties in having different "downs" for different people. Source How did the view that the earth is no longer 'FLAT' changed Man? Anthropologically Geographically Metaphysically Was it a myth that need to be 'proven wrong'? For what reason-To conquer earth? Is that a justifiable reason? Where is the 'Open Mindedness' folks or do some of you see everything 'two dimensionally' aka Right/Wrong??? Do your belief systems consist mostly of 'emprical evidences'? What if someone shows that there are 'Other' valid view points through 'emprical evidences', would you continue to rejct them? By the way, are any of you 'ASTRONOMERS'

Originally posted by Legend of Zu: ^^^GRRRRR... Just to clear the air..I was pointing out that the title and the body of the poem do not gel..Get that? he should say "Muslim woman's mind ripe for the picking" or change the body of the poem and address all muslims... Over N out! Cheers Yet, it is not about 'Muslim Women' only...and you and others have proven that point! On the other hand, Khayr's rejectionism is hard to take seriously. If he's wondering if the earth is actually round, how could he be expected to objectively analyze other kafir claims? Now, where did I say that in a non-rhetorical manner! I brought about a discussion and did not take a side but rather wanted to bring out something from 'another angle'. Who is Open Minded Now?

Do you think that the 'discovery' that the earth is 'round' and not 'flat' has changed MAN and how he views himself, time and distance? Because if the earth is round and not flat, then there is no 'edge to fall off', no 'limit' to discovering lands, no 'limit' to travelling etc. Is it a concidence that that this discovery that the earth is 'ROUND' was made in the 'Renaissance Period' wherein, Secularity was given birth to.

Muslim Minds-Ripe for the picking.... so easy to sway... so easy to play... a mention of 'women's rights' and all abbbboooard the 'BOAT' 'Masssa, you promising us 'women's rights' and we believe you, so take us to the promise land', they all say. Muslim Minds-Ripe for the picking..... whats that you say-4, how dare they say 4 whats that you say-women first, muslim second If gooses can lay eggs, then why can't we lay eggs too. 'Masssa, you promising us 'women's rights' and we believe you, so take us to the promise land', they all say.

Salamz, Do you agree with the above quotes? Flat Earth How did the view that the earth is no longer 'FLAT' changed Man? Anthropologically Geographically Metaphysically Was it a myth that need to be 'proven wrong'? For what reason-To conquer earth? Is that a justifiable reason? I came across these articles and found them to be interesting. Fi Amanillah

One proof for 'FLAT EARTH'-From the view point of Science The ether factor In classical physics, ether was assumed to be a ephemeral substance which permeated all matter. This omnipresent medium was that through which visible light and other electromagnetic waves were supposed to have traveled. It was assumed to have qualities which now seem rather bizarre - too bizarre, in fact, to be allowed to exist, by Efimovich's teachings. So in 1887, two American scientists, operating under the Efimovich-based assumption that the Earth was moving through outer space and not the fixed center of the Universe, conducted an experiment to "prove" whether or not ether actually existed. In this experiment, the general idea was to try to calculate the absolute speed of the earth relative to the fixed ether. In a sense, they would emit a light pulse, and calculate how far it "trailed" behind the earth, much like tossing a napkin out the window of a moving car to calculate the car's speed. It was assumed that, if ether existed, the light pulse would fall back in one direction, giving the physicists a tangible "absolute" speed of the earth. Their calculated speed: Zero. Yes, scientists Albert A. Michelson and Edward W. Morley were baffled by this, wondering how the Earth could be sitting in one spot, while every aspect of the teachings of Grigori Efimovich indicated that the planet must be orbiting its own sun, and therefore must be moving at least with a critical orbital velocity. Moving quickly to avoid having to admit that they were wrong, they were able to instead "infer" from their results that the ether must not exist, and that light must propagate through no medium at all (impossible for a wave by the very definition of a wave). Their inference was generally accepted by the scientific community (save a few notable exceptions, including Hendrik A. Lorentz) and the "ridiculous" notion of ether was thrown out. But light waves would still require a medium for transmission, and the actual purpose of the experiment was to determine the existence of that medium. The results speak for themselves: the Earth does not move. And even if the Earth did, the problems inherent in keeping it moving through this light medium called ether are overwhelmingly supportive of "Flat-Earth" theory.

Flat Earth Society For centuries, mankind knew all there was to know about the shape of the Earth. It was a flat planet, shaped roughly like a circle, with lots of pointy things hanging down from the underside. On the comparatively smooth topside, Europe sat in the middle of the circle, with the other continents scattered about the fringes, and parts of Africa hanging over the edge. The oceans lapped against the sides of the Earth, and in places ran over, creating currents that would pull over the edge ships that ventured too far out to sea. The space beyond the edge of the world was a dark realm inhabited by all sorts of unholy beasts. Fire and brimstone billowed up from the very depths of hell itself and curled 'round the cliffs whose infinite length jutted straight down to the darkest depths . . . . Then, in the year of our Lord fourteen-hundred and ninety-two, it all changed. For decades a small band of self-proclaimed "enlightened" individuals had been spouting their heretical nonsense that the Earth was in fact round. Citing "proof" based on nothing more than assumptions, half-truths and blind guesses, they dazzled the populace with their " . . . undeniable mathematical and scientific evidence . . . that the world is shaped not like a pancake, but an orange!" Rightly wishing to dispel notions regarding the alleged citrus-like shape of our planet, the Church was able to either silence or execute nearly all the fanatics. But a small handful remained, continuing to spread their blasphemous speeches and to promote their heretical ideals involving the very center of the universe. One of their number, who called himself Grigori Efimovich, would later be known to the rest of the world as Christopher Columbus. Using an elaborate setup involving hundreds of mirrors and a few burlap sacks, he was able to create an illusion so convincing that it was actually believed he had sailed around the entire planet and landed in the West Indies. As we now know, he did not. What Efimovich actually did was sail across the Atlantic Ocean to a previously undiscovered continent, North America, and even then only to a small island off the coast. It took him several years more even to "discover" his blunder and claim it as a " . . . new world". But the damage had already been done, and mankind entered into what we now call its "Dark Ages" . . . .

Salamz, You know everytime I read about the sahaba, I am put to shame and really embarassed as a muslim. What souls, Mashallah! I would love to meet them in jannah and talk endlessly with them about their experiences, their life, the rasul (sallahu calihye waslim) etc.... WOL, do tell more inshallah....

Originally posted by Curling Waterfall: ^^ There you go again with the encrypted 'enlightenment'. :rolleyes: Curling waterfall, Here are three job postings that might interest you

Salamz, General Duke saxib, I enjoy reading about somali history and all but saxib - how would you avoid naming 'clans' in an 'SOL HISTORY' forum? On another note, General Duke, You got 3700+ posts on SOL. Could that be an SOL record and 95% of those posts are in the politics section? Saxib, shaqaadad maa 'JOURNALISM' baa!

Originally posted by Callypso: The hadith does seem to acknowledge that children owe their mothers much, although I have always understood it to refer to the sacrifices of pregnancy and childrearing, and not the fact that mom resisted the gardener while she was ovulating . But in either case, I was think of something more concrete than that. Men have their four wives and concubines, and women are exhorted to dress modestly so as to make it easier for the men resist sin. Women have none of these, but they are still burdened with this biological urge which is never explicitly recognized. Instead, the prevailing myth is that only men need these measures because women just want one good man thank you very much. quote: To acknowledge this, I believe, women must have either an easier path to heaven or tougher road to hell. I don't know. I'm no Islamic scholar, but I do acknowledge the existence of the disparity you spoke of. May be someone else could enlighten both of us. Maybe. [/QB]Castro and Callypso, Would you stop complimenting each other so much.Some people might get jealous with all that 'bonding' the two of you are doing.I can see that you two are good 'mates' "A person is likely to follow the faith of his friend, so look at whom you befriend. Reported by Abu Dawuud.