Istanbul, Turkiye.

Where the camel?

Haatu & Tutu... isla yaaba nimanyahow, you're making fools of yourselves.:confused:

I was reading the other day an (unconvincing) argument that said that in Islamic countries social, economic and legal policy should always be designed so as to better the position of men and boys, whose standing and position in society, it was argued, should be improved and advanced before that of women. The reasoning was that this should be done because men are or would be the 'leaders' of society and the 'heads of households' and they need to be enabled and empowered - not undermined - in fulfilling those roles. The implementation of that sort of thinking would mean: - Boys and men should be prioritised for receiving education, health care, job creation and government assistance. - NGO's who help women were particularly critisised... they should help men first, it was argued. etc. What do folks here make of that?

Haatu;961118 wrote: The ones that believe females should be head of the household and other crap like that. Is that all? C'mon dee... any other un-somali/islamic principles?

*Blessed;960987 wrote: Interesting preposition! Perhaps, there needs to be a discussion amongst the men, it would certainly be more helpful for the empowerment of Somali women / society - if once in a while, the few decent Somali men told their brethren to stop being such pigs. There are many kick *** Somali women out there, they may or may not call themselves feminists but the fact that you chose to ignore or dismiss their existence is rather telling-- malaha you should work on your condescending attitude ya Odey... There is no clear and recognisable womens movement within the country... is there? (pardon my ignorance) And the reason why I used the tone I did, was to envoke 'ficil' in the Somali women readers of SOL.

I dont have the time to reply to this thread, despite having a lot to say, but I broadly agree with Reeyo, DRKennedy, Saffers.... Haatu;961061 wrote: Reeyo, no one is denying you that as it's all your basic rights but we're against radical feminists and the un-Islamic, un-Somali principles they stand for. Can you expand on the Un-islamic and Un-somali principles?

This is what I commented in another thread: Men and women in society. One aspect of the society that I found fascinating to observe, was the roles and rights of men and women in society. It was saddening to see the state of women in Somali society and that although, de-facto, they nowadays bear a huge and disproportionate responsibility for bringing up children, running households and often financially maintaining the households, their rights are not respected or fulfilled and they do not receive the respect that in all honesty they are more than due. The Somali family is in crisis, it seems; and this is where many of the Somali people's societal ill's stem from. When Somalis were still mostly nomadic, it was almost next to impossible for a woman to own her own lifestock as all the livestock belonged to the man/husband/father. Although things have improved and are marginally better in the urban context than they were in the rural nomadic environment, it is still very difficult for Somali women to own things out of their own right. They are still treated as property of their husbands, who ought not to think or speak, or look thoughtful and intelligent, when their men are in present because the men are seen as the head of the household. This is changing slows as some women become financially independent. For example, you will find that the vast majority of the traders are women, selling drinks, food, clothes, qat, exchanging money. Other women receive a financial lifeline through the remitannces that are sent to them from their families. Some of the men try to preserve their previously complete dominance and control over the family's finances and assets, and where this is not possible for them, there are incidents that occur as a result. Often they will beat their wives and take from them the little monies they earn from petty-trading or are sent from their families. Incidentally many of those men do not fulfill their responsiblities as fathers and husbands and in many cases transgress against their wives. Clearly something is going wrong and perhaps Somali boys ought to receives instruction (lessons) in "how to be a good father/husband" and to clarify what their religious duties are in respect to their families. Having said that there are some Somali men that have done very well for themselves and very much run their family matters well, so let's not brush all Somalis with the same brush. Somali women (mothers) themselves also perpetuate the very anti-women, denigrading norms and values that so harm the Somali woman's social standing and opportunity in life. Fathers and mothers will often keep girls behind from school, from dugsi/malcaamad and sometimes this is for practical reasons, other times this is because of ignorance. One particular scenario is where a mother has many children, some of whom are young (the father is a lazy layabout who chews qat) and the mother is engages in some sort of work or petty trading. The mother will keep behind one of the girls to look after the young kids, to do the cooking, cleaning and maintain the house. In another scenario the father or mother will say that "a girl does not need education" anyway, so keep one (or more) of them behind for convenience's sake so that those girls may do the cooking, cleaning etc. Their is still the pervasive belief that women belong in the kitchen, with children, doing the cleaning etc. For a man to enter the kitchen is, literally taboo and should a man enter the kitchen he will be shouted at, rediculed and forcefully told to get out of the kitchen. If it were the agreement then, that Somali women would look after the household and the men would go out and earn the living, at least the women have held up their end of the bargain. If Somali society is to move forward, Somali women need to be empowered and they need to be taugt that they too deserve to have rights, to have opinions and to be heard. We need a Somali feminist movement and I urge every Somali woman (and man) out there to do something and get involved in Somali soceity to improve the rights, opportunities and standing of Somali women. If Somali people are to people are to mover forward, this has to be done. This is for two important, yet simple reasons. The first reason is one of simple demographics. Somali women are likely a huge percentage of the overall Somali population (50% if not more) and to say that 50% of our population will not have an education, cannot work, will not have any ownership rights, decision-making rights or that their voices will not be heard is extemely detrimental to and damaging our society and economy. The second and other other reason is one of beneficial side-effect/consequence. Ordinarily the mother will spend more time with a child, caring for, feeding, playing with and educating a child. If a mother is educated, literate, aware/informed and empowered, this will have a huge and transformational consuence on the next Somali generations of children. These children will, guaranteed, live better as a consequence precisely because their mother is more educated, she is literate, aware and empowered to make better decisions with positive transformational consequences.

Tallaabo;960442 wrote: Friendship and free trade with Ethiopia is in Somalia and Somaliland's interest. I agree, but this should not be friendship and trade without reservations and conditions. If Somalia prospers, Ethiopia will prosper and if Ethiopia prospers Somalia will prosper. Tallaabo;960442 wrote: Somalis should actually support the Ethiopian dam because if Somalia and Somaliland sign free trade agreements with Ethiopia, we can import cheap electricity from them to kick start an industrial economy and export the Somali made products to Ethiopia's vast market. It is a win-win situation I think. IMO hat's the worst thing we could do and the biggest mistake we could make... it would be a foolish foreign policy and national security failure of epic proportions. Considering that we have no domestic power-producing capabilities, such an action would make us entirely beholden to Ethiopia, which would limit us in what we can say or do to Ethiopia, which is exactly is plan. What we need to do is produce our own power that we control. You are naive to think and have high hopes to think that we could build industries on the basis of exporting to destitute Ethiopia, which has a stifled private sector, whose consumers have no purchasing power to speak of. What we need to do is have a long-term co-operative agreement with Ethiopia. Once we have built up our security sector, we need to allow them to use our blessed coast and make our ports available to Ethiopia at cheap rates which undercut regional alternatives. We need to get Ethiopia to invest into those ports and fund their creation. We need to do what Djibouti has done, which is to have foreign military bases, American, Chinese, European in our county and along our strategic coast. This will give us some leverage reigonally and internationally.

Why don't you start a Somali Women's Feminist movement? How women are currently treated Somali society - 50% of our population - is truly saddening and heartbreaking... ma' aha wax loo adkaysan karo. Walle' waa ayaan darro. For god's sake is there not one, just one, among you with the heart and the resolve to start a women's movement? All it takes is one...

Chimera;960425 wrote: PS - Somalia should not allow itself to be dragged into this crisis, if our rivers are secure. The Egyptians watched us languish in the last 20 years, they were silent during the 2006 invasion, and absent during the drought in 2011, they're not our friends or allies. We must be very cold to countries that ignored us when they had it good, but suddenly remember us when things are going bad for them. A foreign policy similar to those of Turkey or Malaysia should be adopted, and less of this pseudo-brotherhood nonsense. I wholeheartedly agree. Egypt (and many other counties) watched Somalis suffer as crisis after crisis and conflict afte conflict was instigated by our neighbouring countries. They have shown no reason for Somalia to support Egypt. Having said that, we should use them and take what we can get from them. One such thing is using Egypts influence with the the petro-rich GCC countries to get more developmental funding. We have a far greater interest in working more closely with Ethiopia for our common interest. Somalia is in no place right now where is can fight another country's battles and get burnt in the process.

Chimera;960425 wrote: Currently no, but by 2016 most definitely yes. The Somali Armed Forces will be operational, a lean but well-armed military, so Ethiopia will have no appetite to attack Somalia now that there is a standing army on the other side of the border. Our political differences will have significantly died down, or disappeared outright with the establishment of federal states and a fully reconstructed Mogadishu as the capital generating wealth and attracting FDI. The Federal government by then has a tax-system in place, with a functioning central bank and a large national budget, all of which will be achieved in 2014/2015/2016. Since there are no immediate Ethiopian plans for 1000+ MW dams that could threaten the Shabelle or Juba rivers of Somalia, the country has nothing to worry about in the next five years. I disagree. Just look at the conflict in Kismaayo which centers around the creation of just one 'federal state'. See the political disagreements and the extent of foreign involvement in domestic Somali politics that is evident there; many more 'federal states' are yet to be formed and they will present the same problems and setbacks. Federalism is out next big quagmire. And since our so-called 'political differences', when put in simple terms, is just clanism, Ethiopia will easily be able to manipulate the various political 'blocks' within Somalia as it did in the past. Our national unity, political system, economy and security forces are extremely fragile and will continue to be so for the next few years. And if Ethiopia's recent involvement in Somalia ia anything to go by, it has shown that it has every appetite to be politically and militarily involved in Somalia - alas, Ethiopia currently has troops inside Somalia. Even where our neighbour chooses not to be directly militarily active inside our county, it is still very much active through its proxies. I do concede that Ethiopia's ability to interfere in Somalia's domestic affairs without impunity is slowly diminishing. And in that same stroke of fortune, Somalia's ability to ward of Ethiopian political, military and diplomatic sabotage and interference is slowly improving. Chimera;960425 wrote: After that, Somali planners need to prepare, or they will find themselves in the same situation as the Egyptians and Kenyans, witnessing unstoppable infrastructural projects that will affect the future generations of those countries. Many rivers have their source in Ethiopia, and it would be national suicide to dam all of them and draw the ire of every country in the region. Ethiopia survived this long due their diplomatic efforts, and refraining from threatening the water security of a recovered historic arch-enemy would ease the pressure. They need the dam on the Blue Nile, but they don't necessarily need prospective dams on the Somali rivers. Well said. I think that the Ethiopian regime has acted to rashly with this dam as even if their decision does not result in direct action from Egypt, it puts Egypt, Sudan, The Arab League, among others, on edge and negatively predisposed towards Ethiopia. Having said that, these infrastructural projects are an indication of where the Ethiopian regime wants to go in the future. They want to make their county a regional superpower by exporting the electricity from their dams at cheap rates and making their neigbouring countries dependent on Ethiopia for their electricity as well as undercutting their neighbours domestically produced electricity. In a similar way they have sought to influence Djibouti by exporting to it cheap electricity and potable water as well as allowing Djibouti to own swathes of fertile land in Ethiopia to produce agricultural produce. They are playing a tactical long-game. Chimera;960425 wrote: The civil war was such a waste, a stable Somalia today would have been in a excellent bargaining position, even the recent arrival of Egyptian officers in Mogadishu send alarm bells in Addis Ababa. I agree unreservedly!

Chimera Somalia is currently in no state to make such demands from Ethiopia and even if, bluntly and misguidedly, we did make such demands nothing would become of it as the Ethiopians know very well that in the short to medium term Somalia has no capacity or capabilities to support Egypt or pressure Ethiopia. There are other, more effective and diplomatic, ways in which Somalia can curtail the aggressive nature of Ethiopian foreign policy to its regional neighbours. I don't know about the Jubba river, but Ethiopia already has dammed the Shabeelle river and I wouldnt be surprised if it also has designs on the tributaries of the Jubba river.

Boabab trees in Madagascar.

Got the first book

Nice videos Aaliyah, so much doog was unexpected. It makes one wonder though, how productive even the arid regions could be if they are invested in and modern technology such as drip irrigation is used.

Classified;951707 wrote: It's less than 2 km long. 22 years with hundreds of millions of Aid and Diaspora money and you're bragging about less than 2 km long of cheap pavement? All honesty, GOOD JOB, this is progress nevertheless. Be realistic, in Somali terms, 2KM is a huge achievement... even more so when you consider that most Somali 'cities' don't span more than a few KM's. So if we Somalis can get a few KM's done in our cities every 6 months, we'll be there soon enough.

RedSea;230503 wrote: ^Filtar sounds Italian. Like Fiiltaro. Filtareey, bal filtar coffee ii dhiib!

Safferz;949482 wrote: Ja. Very daring, as Blue said considering that there are some right nutters on the net.

Safferz;949476 wrote: Zus! I posted my baby pics from Meppel the other day Alright, Zuster it is then! My Dutch has deteriorated so much nowadays i'm cringing at the spelling mistakes i'm making lol

Haatu;949469 wrote: Dutch is the b@stard child of English and German. Akhas caleyk. Mensen voordat jullie op oorlog gaa, Ik zeg nu meteern: "spreken is silver, sweigen is goud."

Safferz;949467 wrote: Truth be told, I lost my Dutch speaking abilities as a child, I just wanted to support mijn volk Broeder

Alpha Blondy;949458 wrote: you know most people think i'm just a fool. although a fool....i can be responsible and adult-like occasionally. but what's the point, somaha? this is after all a trolls thread...... AB no-one should take him/herself too seriously but you certainly not in a thread with Troll in the title, so troll away, Innaar

OP stick with your own qurbojoog accent, it is as good as any