Originally posted by Jumatatu: quote:Originally posted by SoMa_InC: [QB And lastly, I think Milan were harshly treated as Dudek was over the line on both occasions that he saved the penalties!! This statement clearly shows the neo-Chelsea supporters have no inkling of the game itself (football). To deny this victory shows the bitternes in you Soma. [/QB]Jumatatu, L'pool did win but Soma has a point. Dudek was way out of his line on at least one occasion. A referee of such a 'high' standard should have warned him and ordered for a retake. This particular ref didn't. There were also further mistakes from the ref which cost Milan dearly... 1) Baros was offside seconds before Smicer scored and the ref ignored the linesman who was waving his flag relentlessly. 2) Shevchenko also had a legitimate goal ruled offside since teh ball was passed to him by a L'pool defender. 3) Gerrard took a dive and L'pool was awarded a penalty. Gattuso held his hand metres before he plunged to the ground and tehre was NO contact whatsoever between their legs/feet when Gerrard went down. If the ref hadn't committed these three mistakes (I know you will be thinking of Nesta's handling of the ball inside the penalty area) then the results would have been very different. Also keep in mind that those who live in the UK hear their (naturally) biased commentators who don't mention this mistakes somehow (although they whined repeatedly about Nesta's handling of the ball in the penalty area) but the mistakes that that favoured L'pool were not mentionned. I changed from SKY to ITV during the first half because Andy Gray was silent and grumpy after Milan scored early on. I found the ITV commentators to be slighty less biased. But, referees do make mistakes during a game, just as they did in the semis when L'pool were awarded a goal that never went in. Things like this happen on many occassions and they unfortunately affect the outcome. Besides all that happenned in L'pool's favour, they fought like lions. The players were cramping all over the field after chasing the ball for over 120mins...although the ref had his share of blunders, Milan lost on penalties. Bravo Liverpool! They won the most exciting CL league finals I've ever seen. PS: Good luck to them in the UEFA cup next season!

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^^ You got the Kaka bit right, saaxib. Oh well, one can't have it all. NGONGE, Kaka was phenomenal in the first half; he provided for two of the three goals and played like he did last year. Liverpool were extremely lucky, and they fought like lions to keep Milan out on the night. What a fabulous game; I wasn't feeling sorry for Milan in the end although the 'six minutes' got me sweating bit time. - Sheva had a genuine goal ruled out after he got the ball from a tackle from a L'pool defender. - Garcia saved Crespo's header off the line with his neck/shoulder - Traore saved another one off the line - Dudek saved TWICE from Sheva towards the end - Smicer's goal came moments after the ref refused to blow the whistle for a Baros offside. The linesman was waving like a maniac but the ref just ignored him and L'pool kept the ball until they scored the 2nd goal seconds later. ...and to top that Gerrard took a dive to give L'pool a very dubious penalty. It was L'pool's night, that's all we can say. Milan players did all they could but they just couldn't win. L'pool players were cramping towards the end after chasing Milan players for most of the game. It was an amazing game, the best final I've seen so far. PS: Looking forward to watch L'pool in the UEFA next season YOU NEVER WALK ALONE...

ahem ahem... only four cups? I didn't want to rub it in by posting all SIX trophies, lol. Hope it will be an entertaining match, I'd rather have a good game where the best team wins than a boring game where my favourite team wins. I hope we don't see a performance like the one in 2002 when Milan beat Juve at Old Trafford. I have a feeling Kaka will do some spectacular things tonite... FORZA MILAN!

I think that Milan are too professional to let the Serie A results affect them. They have had a dip in form but keep in mind that Liverpool also were thrashed at Highbury recently and also finished outside the top 4. So if we use the league as a measure of success then AC Milan are better off than Liverpool. Mourinho and benitez have finally taught the english to play tactically, with their heads and not their heart. If the finals were like the NBA playoffs (with multiple games) then I'd say without doubt that Milan would win. But the final is only one game and anything can happen. As a Milan fan, I'd like to see spectacular final where beautiful football is played, this suits Milan because they have a far superior side who are capable of playing wonderful football. They have better players on almost every position and I believe that (in L'pool) only Gerrard would possibly get a spot in Milan's first 11. I hope that the team that plays the best football on the night wins. FORZA MILAN! Northerner, Look closely at the cup being held up in this ...not the UEFA or some other minor trophy, lol...

NGONGE, Originally posted by NGONGE: Viking, you seem to be arguing from the point that this article was written by a feminist, lesbian and ’reformed’ Muslim. When someone writes their opinion on anything, the first thing you do is do a background check. This would help you to understand the motives behind the words. For example, a couple of years ago, the USA and GB started talking about how Iraq had WMD's and how they wanted to bring 'democracy' to the Middle East. Those who know the track-record of these two nations know that all that was a pack of lies! Although their intentions sounded 'noble' to the uninformed, the rest of the world knew that their intentions we in reality very sinister. Having said that, we should know what the motives behind Irshad Manji's (as you call them) "valid" argument are. Don't be blinded by her "valid" arguments because at the end of the day, this woman is against the basic tenets of Islam. Originally posted by NGONGE: Again, are you not residing in the West? Do you not encounter such blasphemous utterances everywhere you go? I'm constantly exposed to blasphemous comments. Just last nite, I was debating a dude on an African forum where they have made Islam-bashing their favourite sport. I also used to work with a bunch of Iranians like Irshad Manji who say the most ludicrous things about Islam to please their occidental mentors who used to protect their dear Shah. Unlike Manji, my Iranian colleagues openly left the fold Islam and don't pretend to be Muslims. It is easier dealing with non-Muslims than evil, sly individuals who pretend to be on your side while they denounce the basic tenets. Originally posted by NGONGE: You see, this lady (and all those I’ve mentioned above – plus the ones classique added) all usually start off with valid criticism of Islam before they go on to spread their own schemes! In the case of this particular lady, she started off by making the legitimate point about violence in Islamic protest. She may have spoken about the riots in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but are such spontaneous instances worth writing a whole article about? Is the point she’s making one about the desecrating of the Koran and people’s reaction to it, or is she hinting at the wider manifestations of violence in Muslim affairs You seem to know her intentions quite well but afraid to point a finger at it. Her aim is to dilute the religion of Allah SWT beyond recognsition, to her own whims. Since you clearly see this, why is it you still see the need of giving it a platform in the forums? Originally posted by NGONGE:You’re obviously safe from her enchanting rhetoric, you already loathe the woman and this loathing is shielding you from her occasional valid queries! Not really, I loathe her but that didn't stop me from seeing the point she tried to sip through between her blasphemous remarks. Her agenda is so obvious and outweighs anything "of vaue" that she may seem to bring forth to the unsuspecting eye. Even the neo-cons use "valid" arguments like "bringing democracy to the Middle East". You and I both know that this is a cloak used to disguise their real agendas. Why is it you don't see Irshad Manji's agendas for what they really are? Are you blinded by one tiny argument that is tucked away in her blsphemous words? Sxb, you can't be that naive! Originally posted by NGONGE: Let us face it, saaxib; we are not dealing with a woman who’s having a tantrum here. We’re dealing with someone who has the ability to mislead and, by our own idleness, is allowed to mislead. And with your help, her wicked words are given more fuel to run through the minds of Muslims browsing these pages. Originally posted by NGONGE: On the odd occasion that someone decides to challenge her stance, hardly any elucidation is employed. This is assuming thy people who wish to rebut her claims are even given the opportunity. You know very well that the only Muslims who are given 'air-time' are those who support the agendas of the people who own the mass-media. People like Manji are given columns in "respected" newspapers while Muslims as a whole are left on the recieving end. Are you unaware of this? Originally posted by NGONGE: Now, to return to the demonstrations and the benign way you chose to portray them! The violence was the fault of the puppets of America (Muslims are they not?), violence amongst Muslims started with Mucawiyah (what’s that got to do with the price of fish?). You’re trying to make it sound normal, saaxib. Why? Do you agree with it? You made it sound like Irshad Manji said something absolutely amazing that you were complelled to post her piece on these pages. I pointed out that Muslims killing each other go as far back as the time of the Sahabas. We all know that it is wrong, unjustifiable etc. but to we need to hear this from someone who is disguisng her agenda with "valid claims as you call them? Muslims are killing each other n Darfur as we speak, do you need to be told this between blasphemous remarks? Originally posted by NGONGE: As for your claim that the Imams speak about these issues all the time, well, I beg to differ. It’s not often that one comes across an Imam that speaks about such things or tackles such people. I suspect that most are adopting your way of looking at things: she’s a secular-gay-activist and one should not waste their breath on reading or responding to any of her drivel. Well, others could think that maybe you and I live in different countries but we actually live in the same city and (probably) live not more than 10 miles from each other. From Finsbury Park to Regents Park, Wembley to Southall mosque, the Imams talk about peace and unity amongst Muslims almost every Friday khutba.

NGONGE, Originally posted by NGONGE: Viking , your argument in regards to the demonstration leaves a lot to be desired, saaxib. The point she’s making was that Muslims KILLED Muslims! We can argue about semantics, background, reasons or even excuse it by comparing it to China and other countries all day, saaxib. The fact still remains that in this case, Muslims did kill Muslims. They attacked and destroyed Muslim property (not to mention Aid agencies). Are you trying to justify such acts? No one denied that Muslims kill each other...Is it the first time that this has hapenned? Mu'awiyah took to battle against fellow Muslims and blood was shed not long after the death of the Propeht SAWS. There is nothing new here. Who are the authorities that clashed with those demontsrating? Aren't they the led by the puppet regime that was installed by Bush? Isn't Karzai the dude who worked for UNOCAL and tried to get a pipeline deal with the Taliban? These people ruling Afghanistan today killed and betrayed fellow Muslims to get in that position. Does it come as a suprise to you that they killed a few people demosntrating? What did Irshad Manji say that was so fascinating sxb that you had to post her blasphemous posts on an a wesbite for Muslims? Originally posted by NGONGE: Though I disagreed with everything that woman wrote in her article, this was one point I could not bring myself to disagree with. She told a truth. And what was the truth? That Muslims killed each other? Sxb, a ten year old kid could tell you that! If you agreed with most of the contents in that post then I'd understand your reason for posting it, but why bother if you disagree with over 90% of what she says? Allah SWT says that before we do something, we should put it on 'scale' to see whether the good aspects outweigh the bad aspects, if it does then we go ahead and do it. If not, we abstain from it for the consequences make the action not worth doing (becomes sinful) because it causes more harm than good. Obviously as you stated above, you "disagreed with everything that woman wrote in her article" yet you still saw a benefit in posting it. That is what people have a difficulty understanding. Originally posted by NGONGE: Earlier you said that “most Muslims see the hypocrisy she shows everytime she opens her mouth and don't give her more publicity that she gets from her occidental mentors.†How do you know that most Muslims do saaxib? How do you guarantee that many Muslims will not fall for her “logic� After all, you have not even bothered to tackle her! It's not the first time I've heard of this woman. The first time was a few years ago and I was disgusted with what I read. Basically everyone in this forum reacted negatively to the article you posted, not because they refuse to scrutinise the actions of Muslims but because the person speaking is herself a deviant who rejects the Qur'an and still has the audacity to call herself a Muslim. Originally posted by NGONGE: I have no need to discuss anything from her point of view, saaxib. Had I seen anyone addressing these issues I would have used their articles instead, alas Ms Manji was all that I could find. Again, she claims to be a Muslim and she’s talking on your and my behalf. You strike me as someone that rejects her ideas yet never sees the need to contest them! What gives, saaxib? These issues are adressed everyday even by our own scholars. Irshad manji hasn't said anything new and exciting. There are plenty of scholars who accomodate the notion of using suicide bombers as a means to bring about freedom and tehre are those who oppose it. You don't need a 'secular gay-activist' to tell you that we need to "check ourselves" and correct our behaviour, Imams do this everytime they hold a khutba!

NGONGE, For those unaware of the topic I’m speaking of, it was the one about the desecrating of the Koran and the resulting riots in Pakistan and other parts of the Muslim world. Yes, anyone who follows current events knows that there have been demonstrations and riots especially in Afghanistan that have led to some deaths. You posted an article that was blaming Muslims for the deaths whereas the truth is that they died as a result of clashes between the authorities and the people demosntrating. This happens in many parts of the world and the most notorious demonstrations/riots were the one held in Tianaman Square in 1989 where the Chinese authorities killed the demontsrating students (it got a lot of attention because the west's view of the communist China). All over the world, sometimes deaths occur during demonstrations and especially when they clash with the authorities who often use more force than necessary. Irshad Manji was blaming the Muslims as usual for the deaths (she might somehow be justified because the intalled govt in Afghanistan is led by Muslim marionettes; so her comments would be welcome if she was critisizing them and not Muslims in general). I have not read her book but judging by some of the articles and TV interviews I saw, I’m almost certain that I would not enjoy reading it or find myself agreeing with most of it. However, I do agree with the title of the book, The Trouble With Islam! There is a problem with Islam, a huge and very complicated problem too. Do you need a secular homosexual who denies the authenticity of the Qur'an and questions the morality of our Noble prophet SAWS to tell you something about Islam? Maybe you feel the need of people like her to be heard (even on forum for Muslims like SOL) but most Muslims see the hypocrisy she shows everytime she opens her mouth and don't give her more publicity that she gets from her occidental mentors. But, how many of them attempt to confront her and refute all her nonsense?...Meanwhile, such people become the spokespersons of the Muslim community in the West! This is not about who gets to speak to Westerners, this is about who gets coverage, airtime and publicity. It’s about whose message gets to the widest possible audience. Unfortunately, in the West at least, Ms Manji’s message is getting further than all of ours combined! Where her book is available in libraries and is being discussed on many websites (not many Islamic ones surprisingly enough), we suppress any questions, delete any articles and ignore all confusing messages! Why is it you think the likes of Irshad Manji, Ayan Hirsi et al. get most publicity? Those who control the media are keen to defame Islam at any given opportunity. Anything that rebuts their nonsense or even attempts to set records straight is not given an opportunity to do so. As Allah SWT says in the Qur'an, the non-believers will not be content until you abandon your faith. Where are all the "Al-Qaeda sleeper-cells" the Bush administration was talking about a couple of years ago? Where are the 200 or so militants who are "ready to strike anytime in the UK" according to the police commisioner? These ludicrous remarks that defame Islam make prime-time news but the fact that none of the above was true was never told to the public. The damage is done and anyone who tries to rebuke lies by govts and Islamophobes would never be given the opportunity or coverage. Now, if I happen to post another article by Ms Manji, will the moderators delete it again? Or will they (along with any other Nomads) try to contest all her arguments? Why do you have the need to discuss the problems faced by Muslims from the point of view of someone who can hardly be referred to as Muslim? Do you want to stir an angry reaction or to initiate proper discussions where ideas/views are exchanged? If it's the latter, then there are better ways to approach this than give a blasphemous gay activist more attention.

mizz, I'm not a sis, a Viking was always a man. And, I missed the part where you said 'Salafi Sunni Muslims', I realise now it was not meant for the Muslims in general but rather a group among Muslims. Cheers!

Originally posted by Zephyrine: Viking , Amazingly, you have listed every single module I took in Uni. I have an insane urge to post all my old essays by way of answer. But I shall resist. Fantastic topic. Am actually looking forward to reading people's responses to the questions. Zephyrine, It would be interesting to see what you wrote on the subject. Pick one of them and post a summary of it. IMF, WB, Globalisation etc. pick one and post some of your opinions in summary. These institutions are cripling the poor nations and people all over the world should be informed about the roles they play.

viki; in replying salfa dacwa used the work of others as evident; this may or may not be his opinion, but i asked for evidence. if the person he quoted was wrong then u will have to take it up with them , but don't take it so personally. mizzi, If that is your attitude, why don't you take it with Hamza Yusuf and ask him directly whether he is Sufi? Salafi said it here, he should take the responsibility!

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: Viking, Jazakallahu khair for the hadith, but I think that was besides the point,re-read it inshallah,(his aqeeda and his manhaj) wheter he is upon sufism or not. that is the focus of the article. Salafi, The question of this thread was someone asked whether Hamza Yusuf was a Sufi. You responded that he was and the 'dalil' you used (to show he is on a "deviant" path) were that his students were made to rock back and forth during dhikr and also that he said some scents are used to cure illnesses. These were YOUR points and I was digusted by the level of ignorance you potrayed in quickly condemning a knowledgable person who is doing his best to spread Islam based one weak and one false assmuptions. Then, you asked me "Bro do u know of any hadith that says smells can cure deasease(so please share)" to which I responded by sharing a hadith from Sahih Bukhari that adresses the issue of aromatherapy. Now that you know that according to our Noble Prophet SAWS some illnesses CAN be cured using scents, you atleast owe people here an apology (and ask Allah SWT for forgiveness) for implying that he made up a Sunnah.

Please ask yourselves the following questions and see how much you know. The poor nations (mostly in Africa and South Asia) are suffering immensely and we have to understand why. Are we "intellectually inferior" as some bigots claim? Is it because of the corrupt regimes as most occidentals claim? Is there ONE clear-cut reason for our demise or is it a multi-faceted problem? 1) What do you know about GLOBALISATION ? Do you think it is good, if so, why? Do you know what effect globalisation has on the environment? 2) What do you know about the IMF and the WORLD BANK? Do you think they are there to help the poor nations to "develop" or do you simply think that they are proxies of the US govt? 3) What do you know about WTO and world trade in general? Do you know why the people were protesting in Seattle, Doha, Genoa and Cancun? Do you know about the "Quad" that decide what goes down at the WTO? 4) What do you know about the UN SECURITY COUNCIL? 5) Do you know what CASH-CROPS are and why the poor nations are forced to export them? 6) Are you aware the most poor nations (incl almost ALL African nations) are in over their head with DEBT? Do you know why they can't pay back the debt? Do you know what effects these debts have had on their economy? 7) Did you know that S Korea was poorer than Sudan at the end of the Korean war? 8) Do you know what measures USA, S Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Taiwan, Great Britain etc. took in terms of trade in order to get wealthy? Did you know that they did exactly the opposite of what the IMF, World Bank and WTO are telling poor countries to do today? 9) Did you know that African countries were much better off economically in 1980 than they are today? 10) Do you know that wealthier nations make more money on products that come from Africa i.e. tea, coffee, cocoa etc than the people who produce them? Did you know that the USA and EU impose "escalating tariffs" on these products? (this means that the product is allowed free in their countries [unprocessed] but they are taxed the more processed they are. Therefore the African nations are forced to sell i.e. coffee as beans while the USA and EU make most of the profit through processing these products) 11) The wealthier western countries tell us that the only way to prosper is through "democracy", multi-party political systems, privatisation, removing tariffs etc. Why are the Chinese currently prospering immensely without following these directives? Apart from establishing a functioning govt, abandoning clanism and living together in peace and harmony, what can Somalis in Somalia do in the future to become a prosperous people? Some will quickly answer "education" but we all know that resources (to facilitate this) don't come out of thin air. We need to know how a nation can become prosperous in this dog-eat-dog world and that success is not simply achieved by becoming ideological allies of the western nations as most of our "intellectuals" think. Peace.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The 'Prophet said, "It is obligatory for one to listen to and obey (the ruler's orders) unless these orders involve one disobedience (to Allah); but if an act of disobedience (to Allah) is imposed, he should not listen to or obey it." Salafi, So where do we start listing the number of things that the Saudi govt has done that are in conflict with what Allah SWT has ordained? - The collaborating with the kufar against Muslims - the helping in facilitating the killing of Muslims - injustice through harsh sentencing of the poor, weak Muslim foreigners - the mistreatement of Muslims from other countries - the opression of women - the supression of freedom - the power being held by an impious monarchy instead of a just and pious leader - the abuse of those who aren't in complianace with the tenets of 'Salafism' etc etc. The list is endless.

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa: Viking akhee, i read the article, and pardon me for my ignorance,i honestly dont understand what you mean. Here is what i got out of it, and please feel free to correct me. sincerity is from noblest pillar of islam... Bro do u know of any hadith that says smells can cure deasease(so please share), What I'm saying bro is that one should be careful and not speak ill of others, especially when speaking out of ignorance. Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 71, Number 596: Narrated Um Qais bint Mihsan: I heard the Prophet saying, "Treat with the Indian incense, for it has healing for seven diseases; it is to be sniffed by one having throat trouble, and to be put into one side of the mouth of one suffering from pleurisy." Once I went to Allah's Apostle with a son of mine who would not eat any food, and the boy passed urine on him whereupon he asked for some water and sprinkled it over the place of urine. Volume 7, Book 71, Number 611: Narrated Um Qais: I went to Allah's Apostle along with a a son of mine whose palate and tonsils I had pressed with my finger as a treatment for a (throat and tonsil) disease. The Prophet said, "Why do you pain your children by pressing their throats! Use Ud Al-Hindi (certain Indian incense) for it cures seven diseases, one of which is pleurisy. It is used as a snuff for treating throat and tonsil disease and it is inserted into one side of the mouth of one suffering from pleurisy." So now you know!

Obeying them is an obligation even if they commit oppression. And whoever says something contrary to this and makes it permissible to revolt against the Muslim leader, even if he may be oppressive, then he is an innovator and a deviant. And it is obligatory on the Muslim scholars to refute this statement of his and to expose his deviance. Where would the Islamic Revolution be? Good think Iranians don't have this retarded rule otherwise their country would be run by someone like Pahlavi Shah and Iranian oil would belong to USA and GB.

Subhannallah! This is all about Salafis. If anyone doesn't comply with their beliefs (which includes obeying a ruler even if he is evil - but as long as he "loathes innovation") then they are wrong/misguided. Salafi, Did you read the link you gave? It was (excuse my language) pure ballocks! What is wrong with doing dhikr for a long time? What is wrong with smelling a perfume before someome rolls it on your hand? May Allah SWT guide us!

I was browsing the Islam pages when I noticed a colourful advertisement on the top right of the screen. It said BET EURO - Take the chance to be a winner - Register now for great odds! Bro Nur and others on the Islam pages are urging us to take the opportunity to become WINNERS through following what Allah SWT has ordained while an enticing and colourful ad on the Islam(!) pages is asking us to do the exact opposite. What is hapenning to SOL?

Wonderful post Nur. Bro Deeq assumes that your posts are not appreciated enough but I believe otherwise. They might not generate tons of responses but there are many silent readers who reflect on the message being conveyed. I see bro Nur (or anyone doing da'wa for that matter) as a farmer, who is on a field sowing seeds. All the seeds might not become plants, but if he succeeds in getting one plant, then his mission was worthwhile. Keep up the good job bro, we need da'ees who know how to speak to the people.

LOOL NGONGE! You got some people's hopes up. Originally posted by Northerner: But the two clubs have agreed that the Italians will play in white - which they wore while beating Juventus to claim the Champions League in 2003. Liverpool's four previous European Cup victories have come while wearing red against teams playing in white. Northerner, Milan played FIVE finals in the all-white and won FOUR of them, the last one was the game against Juve at Old Trafford (the most boring final EVER). Milan have won FOUR cups in all-white. Liverpool have won FOUR cups in all-red.

Something to make Liverpool and Milan fans happy...NEVER have two sides with so much success in the Champions League met in a final before. This should make the Gunners, the Man U fans and the Chelsea fans a bit envious, lol... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Champions League final on May 25 in Istanbul will enter the history books as it brings together two sides that have won a record combined ten trophies in Europe’s premier competition, the Champions Cup and Champions League as it is known now. Milan have won six cups: at Wembley in 1963 against Benfica, in 1969 in Madrid against Ajax, in 1989 in Barcelona against Steaua, in 1990 in Vienna against Benfica, in 1994 in Athens against Barcelona and in 2003 in Manchester against Juventus. Liverpool, for their part, have won the trophy on four occasions: in 1997 in Rome against Borussia Monchengladbach, in 1978 at Wembley against Brugge, in Paris in 1981 against Real Madrid, in 1984 in Rome against the home-town side. Overall, the Rossoneri have played in nine finals since 1958 and as two years ago, will play in all white while the English side will be in all red for what promises to be a wonderful evening in the Ataturk Olympic Stadium. RECORD HOLDERS TO MEET IN ISTANBUL 10/5/2005 11:40:00 AM THE FINALS BETWEEN SIDES WITH THE MOST CHAMPIONS CUP AND CHAMPIONS LEAGUE VICTORIES 1) Final Milan-Liverpool ten cups (6 Milan + 4 Liverpool) 2) Final Liverpool-Real Madrid eight cups (2 Liverpool + 6 Real Madrid, May 27, 1981 Paris, final-score: 1-0 to Liverpool) 3) Final Real Madrid-Juventus eight cups (6 Real Madrid + 2 Juventus, May 20, 1998 Amsterdam: 1-0 to Real) 4) Final Ajax-Milan seven cups (3 Ajax + 4 Milan, May 24, 1995 Vienna: 1-0 to Ajax) 5) Final Real Madrid-Valencia seven cups (7 Real + 0 Valencia, May 24, 2000 Paris, 3-0 to Real) 6) Final Real Madrid-B.Leverkusen seven cups (7 Real + 0 Lev, May 15, 2002 Glasgow, 2-1 to Real) 7) Final Milan-Juventus seven cups (5 Milan + 2 Juventus, May 18, 2003 Manchester: Milan on penalties) 8) Final Benfica-Real Madrid six cups (5 Real + 1 Benfica, May 2, 1962 Amsterdam, 5-3 to Benfica) source: www.acmilan.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Baashi: Let me shock you Viking and say what you have listed above is not a science . I have strong opinion on the blood-fussion theory. I also believe the Oromo connection. Baashi, Aren't Somalis Cushitic (one of the Hamitic groups, [descendants of Ham] and Arabs descnendants of Sham)? Somalis also also are related to Oromos and I read some stuff written about the etymology of our languages. Did you know that pregnancy is known as ur-guus in Orominya? Or maybe I was lied to

Baashi, Somalis are Hamitic people while Arabs (and Jews) are Semitic. 1. Eastern Branch (a) Ancient and Modern Egyptian (excluding the Arabs). (b) Nubians, Beja. © Abyssinians. (d) Galla, Danakil, Somali. (e) Masai. (f) Wahuma or Watusi. 2. Northern Branch (a) Berbers of the Mediterranean, Atlantic and Sahara. (b) Tibbu. © Fula. (d) Guanches (extinct).

BOB, AC Milan were denied two penalties and lost the game in the end. They didn't score in the chances they had and therefore deserved to lose. Now that they seem to have lost the Scudetto to Juve, the CL final should be even more entertaining. Can't wait! Barca is flying high! Valencia looked like a wounded animal when Barca struck to stunning goals in about 60 seconds. Barca all the way!

Take your time bro.

Nur, Bro, this is a good idea. But we have one major problem, there are basically no non-Muslims in these forums. Warsame seems to be the only one at the moment and it would be unfair for he is outnumbered and therefore cannot cope with this sort of discussion. Plus, he hasn't shown any hostitlity towards our religion. Is it your wish that people take on roles and play 'prosecuter' as an Islamophobe would? It is a great learning opportunity for all of us, but unfortunately there is only one boxer in the ring