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  1. Interesting rant! Is the following true or false: 1. The Somalian language is simply Arabic + Italian + English blended together (with some bananas of course)
  2. Salams.... Well, there are six schools of jurisprudence and two schools of theology. The Hanafies, the Malikies, the Hambalies, the Sahfi`ies, the Ja`faries, and the Salafies. And the Asha`rah and the Mu`tazilah. Six plus two equals: 8. All in hell, save one! Lets role a dice, shall we? Peace.
  3. Shams-ud-Din, I am a rationalist. My arguments originate from reason. Once again: 1. Physical attributes do not apply to non-physical beings 2.culuu is a physical attribute and Allah is a non-physical being 3. Therefore, culuu can not be an attribute of Allah Wa salam
  4. Salam Alykum all..... Nice to see many replies. For a moment there, I thought the Islamic forum was dead! Sharmarkee, your timing was less than impeccable. Mutakalm's arrogant posts were deleted. I'd like to thank JB for citing that insightful anecdote of the dragon. It simply illustrates a common fallacy that many believers commit, that is, shifting the burden of proof. Shams-ud-Din, "who i am" is irrelevant. You are supposed to critique the argument not the person or his background. I could be a Salafi, Shici, 7ambali, Malaki, Shafi3i, hanfi, jahami, jewish, christian etc...It really does not matter. [49.13] O you men! surely We have created you of a male and a female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one among you most careful (of his duty); surely Allah is Knowing, Aware. Salafi da'wa, as I have said before, I am not well-versed in the Arabic language or the science of men. You and I know that narrational proof involves too many other factors, which are far beyond the scope of this modest forum. Factors such as: The chain of narrators, whether the narration is authentic or not, what is meant by the narration and so on and so forth. I think we can do ourselves a favour by limiting our discussion to the Aqly proof. In addition, I do not follow others when it comes to the main beliefs or the pillars of the religion. I believe that one should employ his reason to understand the existence and attributes of Allah, as opposed to suspending all rational analysis and shouting, when confronted with truth: "We have not heard of this among our fathers of yore" [23.24] My main questions remains unanswered: How can you apply a physical/temporal/relative attribute (culuu) to an non-physical/absolute/infinite being? Wa salam
  5. Salam Alykum... The proofs from the Qur`an and the Sunnah require a deep understanding of the science of men and the Arabic language. Therefore, I will limit this missive to criticize the Aql proof provided in the above article. I am sure that all of us here are thinking beings. So, in his name we begin.... (4) On the other hand, the proof of the ‘aql (intellect), has two angles to it: 1. The ‘uluw is an attribute of perfection and therefore being as such necessitates that it is an affirmed attribute of Allaah because Allaah is qualified with the attributes of perfection from every angle. 2. For the sake of argument, if we say that, “Allaah is either above the world or under it or on its right or left,†then which of these descriptions denote perfection? The answer is, “Allaah is above the world,†because if he is “under it†then He would be less perfect than the created! And if He is in the same place as the created, then Allaah Jala wa cala would be equal to creation in perfection. Thus it is necessitated that Allaah is above everything. In addition, there is no doubt that Allaah, the Most Magnificent, the Most Mighty, is not in the “below†or amongst us, because this would necessitate that some of His creation is above Him or with him. So, if this is impossible, then by all means to Allaah belongs the perfect Transcendence above creation and the perfect Rank and complete authority. (5) Finally, as far as the fitrah (natural inclination or disposition) is concerned, each person naturally acknowledges the fact that Allaah is above the heavens. That is why whenever a person supplicates His Rabb (Allaah) he (she) takes refuge towards the direction of the sky (i.e. upward). The author of this article failed to rationally prove how physical ascension (‘uluw), a physical attribute, can be applied to Allah, a non-physical entity, exalted is he from everything that is physical and impure. Not only does the author attribute physical ascension to Allah, he goes further to say that it is "an attribute of perfection"! Allow me to illustrate to you what the author is saying by using the Banana analogy: He is stating that it is possible to attribute ignorance to a Banana! However, a rational person will object and say: How can you attribute ignorance to something devoid of all faculties that enable it to gain knowledge? A Banana by definition is something that can not gain knowledge or lose it. Therefore, saying that "a Banana is ignorant" is simply absurd and meaningless. Likewise, physical ascension does not; in anyway, apply to a non-physical being. Left, right, above, below, big, small, fat, skinny are all temporal and relative terms that do not apply to an absolute entity, such as Allah, exalted is he from what they ascribe to him. These attributes can only apply to something which is limited by the fabric of time and space. However, Allah, by definition, is not limited by anything. Therefore, to say that he is physically above his creation is tantamount to saying that he is limited. And anything that is limited is surely not infinite, and thus, it can not be a diety. Wa salam Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks. The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him. Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.
  6. Salam Alykum 1. "I think, therefore I am" as opposed to "I believe, therefore I am." 2. The Quran doesn't state that the earth is flat. Some here need to get a better understanding of the Arabic language and its niceties. 3. If the earth was flat, how can we possibly have day and night? 4. Why is it that when a Banana sails into the horizon, it completely disappears? 5. If the earth was flat, how can you possibly explain the earth's silhouette on the moon during a lunar eclipse? 6. [25.44] Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path. Wa salam
  7. لغة تنÙر المسامع منها*** حين تروى Ùˆ تشمئز النÙوس