^^ Go on what? Change the subject you mean? SL is peaceful, had several elections, smooth transfer of power and even a mayor visiting buuhoodle. Only recognition remains. Nothing new to say there. War waxaan ku hor dhigay ka jawaab. The questions are all up there.

^^ I can and I do. Repeating that line a million times isn't going to make it a fact, saaxib.

^^ See? When I put you on the spot again you'll say "I wasn't serious and I was only messing about". Xiin can't see past his own nose in this instance (though he's not at your level yet).

^^ Bahasha baro warya. This crazy man is starting a new team from scratch and only Sahin is one household name in that group. Naga daa dee.

^^ Rodgers is nuts! He's getting rid of an entire team of players: (Adam, Spearing, Aquilani, Kuyt, Aurelio, Carroll, Maxi, Pecheco, Bellamy and god knows how more) and replacing them with (mostly) uproven players (Borini, Sahin, Allen and the two other kids). Waa ciyaar cusub...

xiinfaniin;862714 wrote: ^^Go home, NOGNOGE, go home. It is for your own good . My one-line response is doing a fine job to your hadal tiro If you say so.

^^ Make up a new argument, won't you? War rise above your limitations and deal with what I'm putting in front of you here. It's for your own good. (I'm going home now but may have a look later in the evening and see if you can surprise me).

Jacaylbaro;862700 wrote: Maya ha u baqan ,,,, waa intay Jannada ku geleysee :D

Chuba, I wrote a story about that a while back but it was lost when SOL moved. Here it is: http://mythaboutgoldfish.blogspot.co.uk/2005/10/audio-cassette-from-home.html

Tallaabo;862649 wrote: The picture is depicting a typical rural house in India or Pakistan not Sudan. The simple life is hugely desirable when you get tired of the constant stresses and worries of today’s consumerist world but such a simple life comes with its fair share of disadvantages as well. Don't you guys think this scene reeks of sexism? I mean the wife should also be lazing around, doing nothing like the guy. It's by a Sudanese artist called Abu Al Xasan Madani. Here is some more:

^^ Jb can read Arabic and understand most of it. Xaaji X, Did you see a woman wearing red when you did this:

^^ That's "London" time. in Somalia, 7pm is maqaaxi time. If his phone is not ringing, qodhon buu ku jira.

^^ Sudan, right? This scene will go well with Talal Madaax's "Suwaycaat Al Aseel".... كم تذكرت سويعات الأصيل وصدى الهمسات ما بين النخيل أنت في حبك ووجد لي طويل وارى الذكرى دواء للعليــل فاتق الله بحبي يا حبيبي أنا ألقاك صباحـا ومسـاء بخيالي أنت يا أحلى رجاء أنت لي حلم و نور وهــناء فمتى يقضى بلقياك القضـاء لست أدري بحبي يا حبيبي قلت لا تنسي عهودي واذكريني حين بيتي ُلف بالصمت الحزين لست أنساك وإن وافيت حيني لست أنسى الوجه وضّاء الجبين لن أخون العهد يومًا يا حبيبي

Malika, he's talking about the xad of cutting the hands of thieves. Rubbish joke.

^^ Exactly. And in other news....

^^ :D Juxa, ma laguu duceeyay dee? Presents can wait.

^^ There is always something new in Hargeisa. For example, did Alpha shave his hair, dress in a khamees and pretend he's a visitor from Holland?

Salaam you two. What's new in your world?

^^ Again, I don't know what is difficult for you to understand here, saaxib. Pay attention now: Afghanistan & Iraq both had to go through a process of transition (a more or less similar one to the process taking place in Somalia today). To guess at how a post transition Somalia would look like, we simply have to look at what happened in those countries (i.e. your Karazi & Maliki clinging to power story or, in other words: the transition did not go well). Wax fahan. It is not that I am not "doing much analysis" here, it is that you do not want to address the questions I am asking, saaxib. What is it that you want from this process? Is there a chance of it taking place? Why (if at all) would it not take place? What are the obstacles? What is missing? The questions are endless and though they are not comfortable they nonetheless need to be asked. Can you afford to be nonchalant about this entire process and adopt your "unlike Xiin the transition itself is not the real turning point - it's that we've got a broad based and well accepted political process to sort out issues of governance - all players recognize it and are familiar with it given this is the second iteration. Practice in this case strengthens the peaceful and partcipatory framework for governance". Try and try again miya? Can't you see the obvious problem staring us all in the face? Today the joy is about the process itself and people are dreaming of a better and greater Somalia (without demanding such a place), tomorrow, when (or if) it goes wrong the finger of blame will be pointed at Sharif, PL, Sakiin or whoever it is that will be the first to throw a spanner in the works. But these are mere actors in a drama that we've seen countelss times before, saaxib. If this goes wrong, the finger of blame should be directed at YOU and every Somali that is celebrating shamcada loo wado without making it clear that, this time, failure is not an option. The only way to do that is by asking the questions today, not once a man from reer hebel is elected. Wax fahan.

El Punto, I gave you everything you need if you were receptive to a proper debate but you chose to ignore it and dismiss the comparisons with Iraq or Afghanistan. You say Karazi & Maliki are clinging to power but where did these two men come from? Were they not the result of the end of transition in both those countries? Do Iraq and Afghanistan not have various groups that are fighting for power? Did the West not impose Karazi & Maliki on them as one of the steps for an eventual withdrawal? What is there that you can’t compare to Somalia, saaxib? As for your wondering about my emotional acceptance of change in the south, that’s just you running out of things to say and playing the man instead of the ball (my blue flag is gathering dust under the bed). Positive, Don’t get distracted by the ebb and flow of this discussion, saaxib. Follow the wave from its source (Xiin’s query about my cynicism) and you will see that contrary to what you understood, I do not believe Somalia to be dead (not just yet). I am not sharing anything new here by the way. I remember having a similar discussion with a Nomad in here in a thread with the title “Quotable Quotes” back when Abdullahi Yusuf was residing in Villa Somalia (sadly, the move to this new style forum seems to have purged most of those topics). At any rate, I also remember having a similar discussion with Nur when he was trying to tell us that the Islamic Courts were the best thing since the Sayid rode a crazy horse. Yes, the systems put in place are encouraging. The elections give one hope that Somalia may finally turn the corner. The involvement of the International Community adds to that hope. However, hope alone does not justify the crazy ululations that Xiin and the Nomads above are displaying here. We have had joyful celebrations before, we fell for the demagogical dreams of the scoundrels before and we believed that Somalia has turned a corner before. Yet, here we are, again, getting all excited over “window dressing”. Do I believe that Somalia is broken or beyond repair? No, I don’t. However, I believe that Somali public opinion needs to change and that rogues like Xiin, El Punto and many others should not be allowed to take the masses on yet another merry go round. I have no problem with all the cliches and sound bites about Rome not being built in a day or long walks starting with one step, etc. However, I believe that step should be one of reflection and deliberation. Think of a village with no light or fire, saaxib. Now imagine that the people of that village have managed to convince a neighbouring village to lend them a lit candle. They send a collection of their young men to get them the candle but, on the way back, the candle is accidently (or deliberately) blown off. The village sends another group of young men to light the candle, but on the way back it is again blown off. Now, after the third, fourth or fifteenth time do you think the people of the village will still entrust the candle to the boys without asking questions, giving suggestions and even making threats that should this “final” candle gets blown off on the way there will be consequences and retributions? How about if it were your own house and you sent your brothers (or sons) to fix a broken toilet? How many times need they get it wrong before you begin to question the entire process and demand satisfactory answers in advance? I fully doubt Siilaanyo and don’t trust a single word he says (my default position with all politicians) but I do not doubt the consensus of Somaliland. I believe that neither Siilaanyo nor his rivals can break the country because the people will not allow them. The clannish tension and mistrust is the same but the total belief in the system isn’t. There is the rub. Here, it is the people that should be insisting that regardless of the winners or losers of these elections nobody should be allowed to disturb the new system or allow Somalia to remain in its current state. It is the excitable Xiin’s that should be asking about the steps that will be taken to ensure that post transition Somalia is going to be different to what we have now. But Xiin (following the steps of those in power, including the “educated” new speaker) is running around with happiness shouting “shamcad baa na loo wada”. It is only by asking the questions and showing that they are paying attention to the details (rather than the promises) that the people will force the politicians to watch their backs and ensure that post transition Somalia will prosper (despite the clannish burdens). Ma balan uun ba la idiin qaadaya?

^^ Never mind. It's not a new problem.

^^ The clouds are clearing, the sky is blue and the birds are once again chirping. Now put your violin down and give me some real analysis. Tilamook, I think you're having an entirely different argument there. Carry on, this wasn't my point.

^^ Dee ma waxaad niyada o sheegtaan mise waa waxa meeshan jira? Xiin, it's because you think that such questions are "moot" that I have no hope for you, saaxib. Waxba ii maad sheegin dee. It's all wishes and dreams. Where is the meat? ElPunto, did governance not "return" when Abdullahi Yusuf came to Somali's capital? The argument then was that Villa Somalia was finally in Somali hands and that everything was nice and rosy. What happened next? Trusting your fate to a creaky system in the hands of men we all already know about is foolish, saaxib. You need to be asking the questions about the end of this transition and what it entails. In the past few weeks, I've gone on about the Afghanistan and Iraq examples and kept on reminding you of how their end of transition didn't end the troubles or problems in those countries. How in the world do you expect Somalia to do any better when the "intellectuals" of that country (as A&T calls them) are clutching crystal balls? Naga daaya dee.

xiinfaniin;862034 wrote: ^^ :D No. He did catch the bug and is now coming down with the optimism thing. Tell NGONGE, the SNM cynic, there is a big change in SOL Your Caravan was that of Sheikh Sharif, saaxib. It is an amazing feat of duplicity that you display here when you try to claim that the events of today were what you had in mind when you started talking of that Caravan all those years ago. But, be that as it may, nothing really solid has taken place yet. They say a drowning man will find hope in a floating piece of straw and, despite my perceived coldness; I would be the last person to stand ashore and laugh at such a scene. Having said that however, I am still obliged to point out the straw and offer the man a helping hand. That the Somalis have finally forced themselves (or were forced) to sit around and select a parliament is good news (though not new). That this parliament finally selected a speaker is also good news (but not new). That the masses are in a state of total jubilation (unless they supported Glayer of course) is also good news (but oh, oh, oh is it at all new?). The only new thing here is that this selection took place in the Somali capital. This was the only tempting twist here. Still, the eternal problem remains. The clannish dishonesty is not going away anytime soon and no Mahiga magic wand is going to cure three quarters of that parliament from their corrupt or clannish tendencies. However, as you know by now, I have no problem with clannish tendencies for I believe it to be the Somali way and the only method to eventually bestow a deserving government on that state. Alas, I don’t believe that the majority of Somalis have reached the stage where they can parade their clannish smugness out in the open! For them, it is still some sort of clever ruse (the whole I am not a qabiilist but you are shtick). This is not about governments, saaxib. This is about people and their understanding of government, nation and politics. Yes, they elected a speaker (who might be a good man), they’ll elect a president (who might be an even better man) and he’ll choose a prime minster that’ll probably be better than both but the people will remain the same, saaxib. I’ve been following this story for far too long to be taken in by the deafening ululations of the winners and the wailings of the losers. Yet, in all this time, I’ve always noticed the absence of the legitimate questions that give one hope for a better future! For example; the discussions on this site (and Somalia as a whole) have been about who will be selected for the three main posts and why they are the best ones for the jobs (or not) but there has not been one single discussion (to my knowledge) about what happens next. So, let me ask it myself, what happens next, saaxib? The empty articles in the western media about a Mogadishu revival assume that the major problems that caused the civil war have been dealt with or (which is more likely) conclude that since Alshabab have been ousted from that city, all its problems are gone. The end of the transition represents an end to this sorry mess for them. But, for you and most Somalis, it is simply the start of more questions (and maybe even problems). So, what happens after the transition ends? Will AMISOM stay or go? If they stay, how can this “recognised” government claim any rule over Somalis when it’s propped by foreign forces? And, how long before the losers of these elections use that card to pummel the government with? When the rest gang up on PL, how long before the Imam decides to threaten (or carry out) secession again? What if the ganging up is on Sharif’s clan, will the isbaaro merchants reappear now that they have nothing more to lose? I truly don’t wish to burst your bubble of joy here but you called me out when I chose to keep my powder dry and allow the gullible to celebrate for a day or two. So, I ask, why should I abandon my suspicion and cynicism when nothing really has changed? Of course, I expect you to tell me that Mogadishu is thriving and that buildings are being built or businesses started. But one little skirmish by a few nostalgic moryaans can easily send all the traders and builders back to the hills (or was that the West?). Change, my friend, has to come from all sides. It comes with the realisation that enough is enough. But would Glayer having lost the job he craved say enough is enough? His record certainly doesn’t show him to be the kind that gives up that easily. Will Sharif Hassan? Will PL do so should their chosen man lose or will Sharif Ahmed? I am not immune to boots of uncontrollable hope, saaxib. I was ecstatic when LA willingly came back to SL and was over the moon when Riyaale peacefully gave up his seat when he lost the SL election. I viewed both cases as real instances of clear change. But do I fall for Siilaanyo’s empty promises? On the whole, no I don’t. I believe his government to be as corrupt as that of Sharif, Abdullahi Yusuf or any Somali government before them. Yet, because of the peaceful election and because of LA choosing to side with SL, I believe a sustainable change has taken place in SL. Today, and as things stand, I don’t believe such a change is about to take place in Somalia. I say this without even taking the Shabab angle into consideration (for they are nothing but a nuisance, today). Sometimes, one notices change from the way things are done. You see it in the actions of the people who witness the first breaking rays of such a change. But, from what I saw, it was business as usual. Nothing has changed, not even in SOL. The day I see proper political analysis in SOL is the day I’ll believe that Somalia has any hope. War this place could not even present us with a simple calculation on how they believe the votes will go (when they were already given the numbers of MPs from each clan and had strong clues as to how most of those MPs would vote). Those that got it right did so (by Mooge’s own admission) from news they heard in a mafrash! Naga daaya dee. Change indeed!

Abtigiis;861871 wrote: :D and then I will vote Abdiweli for PM. As long as we are back to the old clan ways, I mean as intellectuals, I can take this. But seriously, I am sad. How a whole country cannot produce a handfull of intellectuals free from clan disease in 20 years is a curse. It can't be anything else. Get a grip warya. Take a deep breath and treat this whole thing with the contempt it deserves. Now, since neither you nor the PL kids running around the place with total joy (not to mention the snake in the grass that is Abwaan ) have no say in the matter, how about a bit of objectivity and real analysis? You will not lose face if you reach the conclusion that Cabdulwali is going to win this thing neither will Duke if he thinks that Sharif will. But Duke can't rise above his limitations. I believe you could. Now throw all the variables in one sack, shake it about as if it's Xiin's neck and then empty it on the floor and tell us what your head tells you? There are plenty of others doing the heart thing already. Naga daaya dee.