raula;932894 wrote: Safferz-by the way..Anecdotal evidence is what constitutes primary data (quantitatively/qualitatively). & as Blackflash mentioned institutional racism & other societal/structural limitations (lack of resources) affects all communities residing in those conditions (including A. Americans, white, chinese, Africans that are emigrated to those places etc). So why somalis's. Actually no, it's not. Research methods 101 - the plural of anecdote is not data. Personal experience can certainly be useful, but not when it's being used to deny substantial evidence being presented in this thread. Who cares if you "made it"? We are not talking about individuals here, but overarching systemic issues and trends we are seeing in the Somali community. Your question has been discussed extensively in this thread, I suggest you read through the last two pages for some of the specific factors relevant to the Somali community. Chimera, there is no point in arguing with people who think social context has no bearing on individual "choice" or has any role in shaping the choices they have available to them. It's a hardened worldview, you can see it clearly when you talk to white Republicans, and its something deeply ingrained in Western societies (ie. "the American dream," "the Protestant work ethic," anyone can make it if they work hard enough). It's much easier to talk about individual failure and dysfunctional families than it is to interrogate the "system" and its failures.

OdaySomali;932668 wrote: Carafaat, wait for the worst part, when I arrive at Burco. You will probably be seething but I am determined to give the masses a realistic perspective of the place. The truth shall prevail, I shall not be silenced. Keep it coming, OdaySomali.

Haatu;932636 wrote: OdeySomali, could replanting be successful then? We have the same problem all over the Somali peninsular. Perhaps planting shrubs and acacia before the Gu' season and hope that some rain comes? The problem with deforestation is that it permanently damages the ecology and landscape, and there are worries that parts of Somalia are becoming deserts as a result. Replanting sounds like a great idea, but what can be done if you've already destroyed the land's ability to sustain these plants?

^^ the internet is not a substitute for good teachers and a well resourced school in a decent neighbourhood, it should be a supplement to those fundamental things.

Blackflash;932348 wrote: Why "ours" and not the Rwandan or Eritrean communities? I can't think of anything that makes Somalis stand out from any other immigrant in terms of obstacles. TDSB Graduation Patterns 2009 cohort TDSB Graduation Patterns 2002 cohort Who's responsible for the atrocious numbers in the reports above? How can a group fail in several different nations (including their own) and still manage to blame everyone but themselves? Every community is different and faces different challenges, but a few things come to mind here: education level of parents (studies show it's the mother's education level in particular that determines a child's wellbeing, in education and in health), immigration/migration history (displacement/civil war? or arriving in Canada as high income immigrants, like recent Chinese immigration to Canada?), household income (Somalis are one of the poorest ethnic communities in Toronto, and have the highest rate of child poverty in the city), residence (Somalis primarily live in "priority" or "high risk" neighbourhoods in Toronto, and schooling reflects this), language/cultural/religious barriers, etc.

Wadani;932351 wrote: Somalis and their almost inborn propensity to adopt extreme positions. Safferz position (systemic and institutionalized racism/obstacles leading to Somali problems) + Blackflash's position (failure of Somali community due to own shortcomings, coupled with a refusal to take responsibility) = something closer to the truth. Each on it's own represents a half truth, and when root causes r misdiagnosed we either get solutions to problems we aren't facing or ones that will only cover a wound as it festers and rots underneath. Note that I said we also have internal issues, but that's often used to deny the existence of the broader structural conditions within which Somali families live. This thread is a good example of that personal failures/dysfunctional families discourse, which would be right at home with the political right. Haatu;932372 wrote: Can someone who is given free education, free resources and doesn't have to worry about their meals or their bed, drops out of school and becomes a failure of life, blame anyone apart from themselves and their parents for not motivating them (some still end up this way despite the parents hard work). I blame them for their failures and have absolutely no sympathy for them. As for you lot talking about all the BS of systematic issues, what issues are you on about? Don't they have a teacher to teach them (I know some teachers are terrible but that doesn't stop them learning on their own at home, that's what most of us have to do anyway) and books to read? Don't they have access to internet to research future career paths so they know what they have to achieve? The funny thing is, in my sixth form/college the people that constantly moan about how rubbish the teachers are and the lack of support they receive are usually the ones failing through their own laziness and lack of effort. Watch the documentary "Waiting for Superman" and get back to me. The education system fails poor students.

^^ anecdotal evidence does not qualify as data, and fortunately for Somali Canadians, what you "personally believe" has no effect whatsoever on policy. There are numerous reports and studies that show the SYSTEMIC issues in Canada negatively affecting communities like ours, regardless of what you believe.

Blackflash;932340 wrote: That's wishful thinking. A large segment with the young Somali male population are content with a life of loitering and bullet consumption. The 40% drop out rate for Somalis in Toronto should be evidence enough. All children start off with the same dreams and desires... they begin to realize the world they live in and the obstacles they face by the time they hit middle school, and that's when you start seeing some children lag behind their peers and eventually fall so behind that they drop out in high school. The situation for Somalis in Toronto (not unlike Somalis in most Western countries) is a product of poverty, living in low-income and crime-ridden neighbourhoods, and trying to make it in societies that are hostile to immigrants and racial minorities. Although we have internal issues too, the family structure/parenting arguments are a convenient way to avoid discussion of larger structural inequalities that Somalis and other immigrants communities and minorities face in Canada and the US.

Chimera;932293 wrote: I think that was a scout taking pictures for a feasibility-study with regards to the arrival of Erdogan a year later. He snapped all the important points in Mogadishu, and potential red-flags, basically the study was a success. Do you have a source for that or are you speculating? It was a Canadian tourist.

Reminds me of this article a few years back: Somalia Gets a Tourist, Mogadishu Officials Are Baffled Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/12/13/somalia-gets-a-tourist-mogadishu-officials-are-baffled/#ixzz2P3fiknX5 It’s no wonder Somali immigration officials in Mogadishu thought a 41-year-old man who described himself as a tourist was insane; they hadn’t seen a tourist in the Somali capital since, well, ever. Canadian citizen Mike Spencer Bown is a seasoned traveler having visited more than 150 countries. But when he arrived in Mogadishu as a tourist, he was met with disbelief. “We have never seen people like this man,” Omar Mohamed, one of the officials, told the AFP. “He said he was a tourist, we couldn’t believe him. But later on we found he was serious. That makes him the first person to come to Mogadishu only for tourism.” Somalia has been one of the world’s most dangerous regions since 1991 when political strife erupted and the country has been plagued by civil conflict since. Many government tourism departments, including those of the U.S. and Canada, heavily discourage travel to Somalia. According to the U.S. Bureau of Consular Affairs, “kidnapping, murder, illegal roadblocks, banditry, and other violent incidents and threats to U.S. citizens and other foreigners can occur in many regions.” All of that may seem pretty daunting to any traveler but Bown was intent on visiting Somalia’s beaches. “I knew that Somalia plunged into civil strife nearly the day I started travelling but it was still on my list of places on the globe I should tour,” he said. Bown managed to spend time in the dangerous capital (only within the gates of his heavily guarded hotel), though he said that it took a bit of finagling to actually get past the dubious officials at the airport. “They tried four times to put me back on the plane to get rid of me but I shouted and played tricks until the plane left without me,” he said. And you thought TSA pat downs were an ordeal.

Apophis;931918 wrote: He has actually succeeded in mocking you because as an American, you've failed to notice the quite obvious sarcastic tone in his post. I'm afraid you've fallen for a classic British tactic i.e 'pretend to be ignorant'. I'm not American, and you're generous to assume Alpha is feigning ignorance.

Alpha Blondy;931907 wrote: you're the perfect candidate to replace that incompetent state ministry for information. the cleverness shows in your outrageous statements. sida kuu waad, inaar. kulaaha revisionist? ...i don't even know what that means anymore because of all these uppity intellectuals. I thought you had a degree from the UK, Alpha? I didn't say anything above middle school reading level, and you're embarrassing yourself by flaunting your anti-intellectualism. If you don't understand a word I've used, you can look it up in the dictionary instead of trying to mock me for using bigger words than you're comfortable with.

Thanks Abbaas, this is great

Alpha Blondy;931901 wrote: ^ another child of the glorious kacaan, miyaa sheekaadadu? No, I'm not feeling the nostalgia for a violent dictatorship either... I just think it's dumb when people create revisionist narratives to legitimize contemporary Somali politics.

^^ good luck with that

Wadani;931634 wrote: Just look at all the posts above. Every single person, except Taleexi, gave an opinion that is in line with the narrative endorsed by their respective clans. SMDH. I don't know how you've managed to come to that conclusion. None of us can think or formulate opinions outside of a clan framework? You don't think that's insulting?

Interesting how an article that tries to critique Professor Kapteijns for uncritically repeating the clannish narratives of her Somali informants can be so... clannish.

Xaaji Xunjuf;931514 wrote: Safferz are you oromo i have not seen you write in Somali? No one hates oromo , i dont think Somalis dont hate any one for no reason , But Somalis want that oromos give back the stolen districts and stay in their land adama Nazareth shewa wellega or finfine. Wo dont care. In this thread alone you've described them as weak, inferior, threatening to invade, our enemies, etc. What do you consider hatred, if not the vitriol and fanaticism you post here about the "Oromo threat"? You are an Ethiopian. And no, I'm not Oromo.

I think some of you are Habesha masquerading as Somalis here, with the level of racism, xenophobia and irrational hatred I've seen in some of the moronic commentary in this thread and others. It is neither Somali nor Muslim, and sounds more like the racial logic of Ethiopian conquest and domination.

Xaaji Xunjuf;931437 wrote: Hadana galkacyo ma siin lahayd. its strange people oo arintan wax yar ka so qaaday thank god Somalida shisheeye ag degan arintaas waka fejignaan yihin Sida reer NFD reer Djibouti iyo reer Somali galbeed. Reer Somalia waxa ba aad mooda inay yidhaheen wixi la qadanyo hala qaato waxba naga ma galin qaar kale babanu ugu darayna loooool Your reading comprehension needs work, Xaaji -- I was making a point that the boundaries you and several others seem to have in your minds, that Somalis and Oromos live in two different and clearly demarcated spaces, is false. And as Samafal pointed out, there's a lot of cultural exchange and overlap between our two ethnic groups as well.

Samafal;931432 wrote: Caku iyo Soomali iyo dhul aysan dad u hayn yaa ku baroortay. War kii aan nala ku haysan baan hagaajin la;anahay ma midkalaad taag u haysaa. Tan kale aniga ha ii tirine ii sheeg meesha ay Oromo kaa qabsadeen. Diredawe waa magaalo la wada dago iyagaana kaaga badaan magacana iyaga luqadooda weeye ee is daji. I'm also not sure why people seem to think the geographies and settlement patterns we see today are fixed, unchanging realities, and the way things have always been. What you think is a Somali city today may not have been one 200 years ago. Our people (with a few exceptions) are traditionally nomadic, and we've taken over lands too, including Oromo lands. What do you think Galkacyo means?

Jacaylbaro;931284 wrote: After 22 years, I wonder how she looks like now ,,,,, Inanta waan jeclaan jiraye ,,,, That's her in the photo I posted above

oba hiloowlow;931216 wrote: yeah its Ahmed Awad rabsha and Hibo Nuura SP yeah indeed Thanks. I noticed it has the same melody as Tubec's "Hooyoy la'aanta":

I'm pretty sure these are midgets, not children.

oba hiloowlow;931212 wrote: cool,,sxb i found this song from the 70s the other day in a cd at home listen to this http://vocaroo.com/i/s0iOaNrmOf9s Lovely! Do you know the name of the artists?