http://www.folkways.si.edu/TrackDetails.aspx?itemid=15627&GLMU=1 I came across this through my university's electronic resources, so unfortunately you won't be able to listen to the full audio without a license. But I recorded the first song, Dulkayaga here .

Wadani;937614 wrote: Ur gonna become a somebody someday insha'Allah. Thanks Wadani

Safferz;937602 wrote: So what books have you guys read about Siad Barre and his government? Maybe we can start putting together a bibliography. I'll post some of what I've read in a bit. I'm not aware of a full length book about his government, but these all include useful information: Jackson, Donna. 2007. Jimmy Carter and the Horn of Africa: Cold War Policy in Ethiopia and Somalia. Jefferson: McFarland & Company Inc. (focuses on US foreign policy in response to @gaden War) Laitin, David. 1979. The War in the @gaden: Implications for Siyaad’s Role in Somali History. Journal of Modern African Studies 17.1: 95-115. Laitin, David. 1977. Politics, Language, and Thought: The Somali Experience. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. Lewis, I.M. 2002. A Modern History of the Somali (4th Edition). Athens: Ohio University Press. Lewis, I.M. 1994. Blood and Bone: The Call of Kinship in Somali Society. Lawrenceville: Red Sea Press. Samatar, Said and David Laitin, eds. 1987. Somalia: A Nation In Search of a State. Boulder: Westview Press. Samatar, Abdi Ismail. 1989. The State and Rural Transformation in Northern Somalia, 1884-1986. Madison: University of Wisconsin. Tareke, Gebru. 2000. The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited. The International Journal of African Historical Studies 33.3: 635-667. (also a chapter in his book The Ethiopian Revolution) There is also the Indiana University Digital Somali Collection, which includes a number of government publications and posters.

SomaliPhilosopher;937610 wrote: It sounds like your preparing to write a barre biography safferz Nah, but I definitely have an (academic) interest in his regime and there's some overlap with what I'm studying now, so who knows... it wouldn't be a biography though, I'm more interested in a history of that period.

So what books have you guys read about Siad Barre and his government? Maybe we can start putting together a bibliography. I'll post some of what I've read in a bit.

Chimera;937543 wrote: I agree. but the Kindle is great for when your tired and you just don't want to hold a book. I have an iPad that I use for reading and annotating PDFs and other documents among other things, so I'm not a complete luddite But nothing compares to an actual book.

Cambuulo iyo bun;937595 wrote: if only watched his recent films then yeah but in Face/off he is really, really, really good Lord of War was also really good.

Chimera;937534 wrote: Labor participation rate for Somali women is very low, much lower than that of men. It doesn't matter which country with a sizable community you look at. It's logical considering the structure of the Somali community. Three examples of the employment rate difference: UK – Somali men 40.1% employed - Somali women 9.6% - WIKI USA – Somali men 51% employed - Somali women 38.5% - Link Denmark - Somali men 34% employed - Somali women 22% - Link Never said that, they're roughly the same, with Somali men having a higher proficiency in English. Listen, my post wasn't some invitation for a gender war, considering each side is one half of the same team. However, I feel when people project that stereotype of "sisters outdoing the brothers" based on news headlines or dropout rates, they are doing the community a big disservice by neglecting a significant group that needs attention, support and assistance. Those figures don't take the informal economy into account, which is where you'll see a lot of Somali women employed (ie. in a Somali mall, domestic labour, etc). It's also important to differentiate between first generation Somali immigrants who arrived in these countries as adults with families (our parents, for most of us here) and Somalis who have been educated here, because the trends are also very different. Chimera;937534 wrote: The community wouldn't collapse because they're "educated" or "working women", (nice twist) however a large section of our community unfortunately due to war, divorce or other reasons is headed by single-mother households. Your exact words were "the assumption that Somali women are more educated and employed than their male-counterparts is a myth, our communities would have collapsed a long time ago if that were to be the case," so there's no twist. As Blessed points out, being a mother and having a career are not mutually exclusive. Parenting isn't a mother's sole responsibility, it is a shared task. Chimera;937534 wrote: Its very difficult for such a mother to juggle all of these responsibilities with a career/university on the side, if she did do this, then the kids would be neglected badly. There has to be a balance, if sisters opt for higher education or a career, then the brothers have to become the fathers that pick their kids up from school. feed them, bathe them and put them to bed. Otherwise, again the sister would be forced to drop all of her personal dreams and become a full-time mom. I have seen many Somali fathers like that, but it all depends on the mentality of the couple, and whether they're willing to compromise. My point was that fathers should ALWAYS be doing this, period. The idea is only controversial to the misogynists who believe that raising children is a woman's job, and their rightful place is in the home, not at school or at work.

So the need for a rigorous and thorough study of the life of Siad Barre and a history of his regime seems to still remain unfulfilled. A good historian sifts carefully through the sources and does extensive archival and fieldwork to reconstruct a historical narrative, and follows the evidence to make historical conclusions rather than write a book guided by his or her personal views, which is what this book seems to be. I can't say I haven't considered doing it, but it's a huge undertaking.

Chimera;937393 wrote: No thanks, I like the physical experience of reading that an eReader can't give you... the smell of books, the texture of the pages, the sense of satisfaction of flipping the last page, the notes I scribble in the margins, etc. And I love having books all over my apartment, and I think my library is quite awesome. Books make me happy

Chimera;937395 wrote: That's the thing Juxa, the assumption that Somali women are more educated and employed than their male-counterparts is a myth, our communities would have collapsed a long time ago if that were to be the case. In a scenario where the women are the more educated group pursuing lucrative careers, there are two obvious changes that happen; 1) the males assume the mother role or 2) the birth rate goes down. In the Somali communities neither of the two changes has happened, which is why you have many sisters after marrying the guys they love opting for raising the kids with the promise of reaching their personal aspirations a few year down the line. This is where the brothers have to step up and take over, by giving their wives the time and space to achieve their goals when the kids are past kindergarten. Where are the statistics you claim show Somali women are less employed and less educated than their male counterparts? And how do educated, working women lead to the collapse of our communities?

Somalia;937386 wrote: Hell no I haven't, it's one of the few cases where you can judge a book by its cover. Read this article he posted that sums it up really. http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/26692-Former-President-Mohamed-Siad-Barre-The-Most-Wrongfully-Vilified-Person Yikes. Still planning to read it, SP? When he described his book structure and chapters on stuff like the Somali orthography in the interview, I sensed that his book was just a synthesis of stuff already written (ie. David Laitin's Politics, Language and Thought) rather than an original scholarly contribution. Makes sense now seeing his sources in that article. Just read those books instead

Do you mean elders say this to encourage us to return, or to explain/justify their own return (or desire to return)? If it's the latter, I definitely agree with you, especially from elderly people who believe going back home will have a more positive impact on their health and wellbeing. There are studies that show immigrant health deteriorates in their new countries, so they're probably right to some extent.

SomaliPhilosopher;937380 wrote: Safferz-Half of those are library books!! I'm taking my no-buy vow seriously dee

SomaliPhilosopher;937376 wrote: ^^ I'll buy if you buy! I'm afraid I can't do that, I've banned myself from buying books after my most recent bookstore binge. And my bedside table looks like this, so I need to clear the queue first:

SomaliPhilosopher;937373 wrote: Safferz- That is still expensive!!! . Perhaps we can share a copy lol. C'mon now, $23 is great for a newly published, hardcover biography, not to mention the fact he's selling it on his own and it appears to be self-published. The book may be terrible, but at least you're supporting a Somali brother

SomaliPhilosopher;937366 wrote: Wadani- I learned some new vocab from your post Safferz- yes, ive been yearning for a good bio on barre for a while, even considered taking the task upon myself. i am interested in checking this one out, but its a bit expensive... Cheaper on Amazon UK -- 15 pounds, or about $23.

Thanks for sharing -- I'm not familiar with the book or the writer but I do know the website, and it's a great archive. I've always wondered why no one has written a thorough biography of Siad Barre or a detailed history of his regime (in English at least, I know Barre commissioned a few and there are Somali language publications out there), so I'm glad to see something out. I don't know if I expect much from this book but I'll check it out.

SomaliPhilosopher;937312 wrote: cousins? wow Nah, just a qabiil connection lol. I don't know Wadani in person.

SomaliPhilosopher;937288 wrote: already having troubles with the in-laws mate? lool stop trying to make it happen SP, my "career mom" is Wadani's eedo

Wadani;937286 wrote: Y assume my mother wasn't/isn't a career woman? The context of our conversation -- your position on the role of mothers and careers, and the way you worded your last post to describe her as your "primary caregiver" led me to believe she was a stay at home mom. Was I wrong?

My favourite...

SomaliPhilosopher;937271 wrote: ^^^ Are your parents Asha Haji Elmi and Cabdi Faarax Shirdoon Haha no, they're just normal folks in Toronto

Wadani;937259 wrote: lol, I don't know. I geuss it should be. But all i know is theres nothing like a mothers love and fathers don't compare, at all. I'm very grateful that my mother was the primary caregiver for me. As for ur statement about it being unpaid work....everything doesn't have to be valued in economic terms. Having a upstanding and virtuous son who loves her dearly is a better recompense for any mother than millions dollars...trust me. It needs to be put into economic terms because care work is invisible and naturalized (see Apophis' comment), so most people don't see the actual value (and opportunity cost) of the work women perform in the household. Women also make up the majority of the world's poor. Some economists have done pretty interesting work in this field, trying to put a monetary value on women's unpaid labour to quantify its contribution to the household and the economy. Your mother's labour over 20something years of raising you may well be worth over a million dollars, when you add up the hours I grew up differently, with a career mom who spent years working on becoming a licensed professional in her practice in this country and have her degrees recognized, while my dad stood beside her and supported her through the process. It was abo who was the one to take us to school in the mornings, pack our lunches and clean the house so my mom wouldn't have to worry about it when she'd come home exhausted in the evenings and he was away on night-shift. So that's my model for fatherhood

Wadani;937252 wrote: Like I said, if a woman is such an asset that the cons of sacrificing her academic and career aspirations would outweigh those of being an academic/career woman first and foremost, then yes in such cases it's justified for her to displace childrearing from its primary position. In such a case the husband would have to step up and do many of the things his wife no longer has the time or energy to do. That's what I mean -- why is she the default primary caregiver in the first place? Why isn't parenting a shared role, as it should be?