Congratulations on their championship for Justice to Zamsam.

[NGONGE]

^^^

I suppose not. They are probably innocent of all that they’re accused of and this girl is probably a spy that wanted to kill her own uncle (or was her uncle someone else) with the assistance of the hero taxi driver! Then again, the girl is probably innocent and these C.I.D officers made a grave mistake that they should apologies and be punished for along with the judge who sent the lawyers to three years in prison for contempt of his “holy†court. Capability might not be culpability but depending on what side of the fence you’re sitting and what website you subscribe to, it may well be. Semantics and half truths, inadeer, is the real name of the game here.

[Nationalist]

^ You think you've got it all figured out, don't you mate? Beautiful, absolutely beautiful!

[NGONGE]

Think? How dare you insinuate that I’d utter anything remotely suspicious? I don’t think, my raw friend, I know! Had I thought these words impeachable in any way or sense I wouldn’t have endorsed them, on the contrary, seeing that they radiate from my remarkable intellect, I can but marvel at their beauty (as you rightly state).

[Xudeedi]

This case is far from media exploitation. The head of AFrican Human Rights group, Rakia Omar, the sister of Rage Omar is involved in this task and relentlessly demanding the Somaliland government for the release of Zamzam as well as resuming her trial. We will see how this horrendous case goes.

[LANDER]

People of honour and integrity will ask for the speedy resumption of this trial for the lack of proper judicial measures is the only clear fact in this manner. However, as is very much demonstrated through Somali media, those who seek to spread misinformation will distort reality and target the emotional vulnerability of the masses with regards to heinous crimes like rape in the absence of any substantial evidence. Case in point, NGO’s have not said a rape has taken place and neither has Rakiya Omar and yet some people still feel free to distort even a third parties report.

[Kowneyn]

Originally posted by Maakhir:

This case is far from media exploitation. The head of AFrican Human Rights group, Rakia Omar, the sister of Rage Omar is involved in this task and relentlessly demanding the Somaliland government for the release of Zamzam as well as resuming her trial. We will see how this horrendous case goes.

Maakhir we are confident in the work of Rakia, and the many others who are working hard to set the standards and establish the Somaliland we can all be proud and for which we struggled and continue to struggle for.

We are dubious about the exploitive puntland who have decorated the poor girl's (an alleged victom of rape) picture all over the internet along with the pictures of high government officials from Somaliland, as if they were the once who were the alleged rapist. I am sure you get the picture! its despicable act and if she was your sister you definitely would not her exploited like that by the predatory politicians of puntland and their scounderels.

 

Raakiya, the Somaliland media and others who were instrumental in bringing the last fascist regime down are using this high profile case to set the legal and human rights standards in Somaliland.

 

Nationalist/Orgiliqe:

 

The girl u referred was not beaten in police custody she was ruffed up during arrest by riot police during the May 18th distubance in Hargeysa. All the students that were arrested have long been released.

The case of Zamzam is totally different because she was being charged with espoinage and was to be imprisoned indefinitely. When it became clear that Zamzam had formidable legal representation who ready to shred the government case into smithereens an attempt was made to remove the lawyers out of the way. In any case what matters in Somaliland is that there is active struggle in many arenas and continuation of institution building. More importantly, all this is being played out for the people of Somaliland who will be the final judges by their vote.

 

I am explaining this to you because I understand such level of maturity and institutional building does not exist in the one man show hoax of copy cat puntland.

[Kowneyn]

LOOKING AT ZAMZAM AHMED DUALEH’S CASE FROM A POSITIVE ANGLE

Adan H Iman — Los Angeles,CA USA — 10 December, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LOOKING AT ZAMZAM AHMED DUALEH’S CASE FROM A POSITIVE ANGLE

 

By Adan H Iman, Los Angeles

 

There is a positive side the story of Zamzam Ahmed Dualeh, the 17-year-old lady who is at the center of a legal drama in Hargeisa, reveals to the world and International human rights organizations about Somaliland, which is that Somaliland is an open, democratic country whose government is accountable for its actions. When the story of the young woman became public, the country’s independent news media picked it up, and concerned members of civil societies vigorously demanded justice and offered legal assistance to the young defendant. That is how the system is supposed to work. If Somaliland were a totalitarian state where there were no freedom of the press and expressions, this story would never have seen the light of the day.

 

There are stories about Puntland - that a young lady from Somaliland was subjected to rape in Bosaso and that a man born in Somaliland was murdered in Bosaso. Puntland has successfully suppressed the stories, and its news media and other civil societies have demonstrated complicity with the autocratic system inherited from Abdillahi Yussuf in not publicizing those stories.

 

What is propelling this story into the headlines is not whether or not Zamzam and her driver were part of a conspiracy to cause harm to the Vice-President. Nobody is taking lightly of the government’s allegation because we all take seriously allegation of plans to hurt our leaders. It is how the government is handling the case. In particular, it is the behavior of the judge who is presiding over the case in sending the defendant’s four attorneys to jail for three years that is generating this unusual interest in the case. Somaliland Forum deserves credit for unearthing that the jail time imposed by the Judge is from the Italian criminal code of the 1930s.

 

In the eyes of observers, the losers are: the judge who, alas, is using 1930’s era Italian criminal code to administer justice in his courtroom and the chief justice who failed to immediately overturn the conviction of the defense attorney which was based on wrong, archaic law as well as the minister of justice and the president who respectively explicitly and implicitly defended the way justice is being administered in this case. Because of the intense publicity generated by the case, the government will have no choice but to sooner or later resolve this case in a just manner and release the attorneys.

 

The winner, in my judgment, will be Somaliland democracy and its vigorous civil societies because things do get wrong even in the most advanced western democracies, and the important thing is the existence of mechanisms to expose when blunders do happen so that corrective measures can be taken and evidently Somaliland does have those mechanisms. My heartfelt congratulations to the Coalition for Justice and Peace in Somaliland and to the other brave women and men who proved to the entire world their dedication to the noble goals of “ promoting justice, accountability, transparency and peace in Somalilandâ€.

 

 

E-mail: ahiman2@aol.com

[Kowneyn]

Here is a nice reply to Tani's article:

 

The Sad Story Of A Young Girl Who Has Been Languishing In The Jails Of Somaliland

Ahmed H Nur — Oslo,Norway — 11 December, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear Tani,

 

 

Before I say a word or two about your contemptuous bad mouthing of the Human Rights Groups in Somaliland, let me refresh to your memory a piece of parody which I think befits your angel of view.

 

 

 

Remember the vain king who, because of his a proclivity for royal vestments, was coned by two enterprising tailors. They “showed†him some royal finery which they claimed was so extraordinary and supernatural that it was visible only to the elite and knowledgeable, and invisible to those who "did not have eyes to see." As you remember, the king ordered the non-existent garments and requested for hasty delivery. The king's ministers did not want to appear ignorant and unenlightened, so they went along with the con-game. They gushed with praise for the non-existent garments. The citizens of the kingdom determined that it was in their best interest to play the game. They, too, extolled the features of the fanciful and farcical finery. Pompous pride outweighed practicality, prompting the king to organize a parade through the aisles of the kingdom. All the subjects were cowed by fear into saying nothing about the absence of clothing. They only repeated pious platitudes of respect for the royalty. But one young child had not been cued for the pretentious show . When the king passed by him the child exclaimed, "The king is naked, the king is naked!" Desperate attempts to hush him failed. The unspeakable had been spoken and, now, all of a sudden, everybody “saw†that the king was naked. But despite the exposure of his nakedness, the king continued to play out the charade and ordered the procession to continue.

 

The pun of the jest should be obvious to you. The retelling and adaptation of the story reveals much about the state of Somaliland today. The sorrow state of Somaliland ’s human rights record and lack of respect for the law is not the result of some foreign power’s work. It is not because the human rights groups are dancing with the enemy, as you allude to mean. To destroy Somaliland ’s image vis-à-vis the International Community, we do not need the help of others. Our elected officials are doing a wonderful job at chipping away the dearly earned reputation of Somaliland . Neither Puntland nor others, and least of all the human rights workers, contributed to the debacles like the beatings and imprisonment of children on 18 May this year. No foreign power has a hand in the rounding up of our respected Editors and Journalists in the middle of the night and beating them up. We are getting no assistance in the gagging of the civil society and human rights organisations.

Nobody is aiding our government in its effective stifling of our young democracy. It is doing it all alone and very efficiently. Somaliland is not on Mars. We are right here on this globe, as a member of the world nations, and every little thing we do is being read and monitored by the rest of the world. The world is watching our moral bankruptcy and disregard for International Law, not to say anything about civilized behaviour. As you know my dear fellow, civilised nations do not imprison children, no matter what charge. Ironically, and in stark contrast to your argument, the little respect which comes our way these days is awarded the human rights defenders, which you maliciously try to defame in your article.

 

What prompted your piece (Congratulations on their Championship ...) is the sad story of a young girl who has been languishing in the jails of Somaliland since August this year, her only crime being a fateful visit to the Vice-President's residence. After so many months in jail, plus accusations of beatings and rape, the Government did not, to date, succeed in producing a shred of evidence to support their preposterous allegations that the young girl was a front-spy for a Puntland Operation whose target was to kill the Vice-President. Even if you dismiss the girl’s cry of rape by the police, the whole story of imprisoning a young girl, on the charge of visiting the Vice-President's house, is so ridiculous that one really feels ashamed of sharing a name and country with the people who are running the affairs of our country these days. Rather than being clothed in righteousness, dignity and professionalism, Somaliland 's Government is naked in its glaring incompetence and mediocrity. They simply handle things badly. But, judging from the tone of your writing, the politically correct thing is to point the finger of blame in the wrong direction, and cheer on as the Government marches on its road of destruction. Out of vested interest and allegiance, different people see different things in the Somaliland Government. Like the innocent child in this parody, some of us see the nakedness of the Administration and, as our civic duty, point it out. Others, and I am really sorry to find you in this camp, applaud the nakedness of the system and compose heroic songs for an empty barrel.

 

Mr. Tani, apart from being a medical doctor and therefore expected to team with those who defend the lives and dignity of human beings, you have been wrongly imprisoned and tortured by Afweyne's NSS thugs. You experienced what misuse of power leads to. In Afweyne’s propaganda machine, you and your colleagues were traitors in the service of foreign enemies. Against this background of experiencing human rights violations and your tall standing in our society, I am saddened to see you defending politicians who are tramping on the rights of innocent human beings. Politicians who seek gratification from molesting a little helpless girl. Comparing to this, Don Quixote’s attack of the windmills scores higher in bravery and brass.

 

Your use of emotional Afweynian language, obviously appealing to the patriotic sense of laymen, if the paragraph below is an example, is way below what I was expecting from a man of your standing and education. You are in fact resorting to the same jargon which the thugs of Afweyne’s regime were using to disgrace you and the people of Somaliland . In your rather unfortunate choice of words, and style, you are intentionally libelling the very people who fought for your freedom. Whatever you and others mean, these are individuals with proven track record in the field of defending human rights, promotion of justice and peace. Just as Afweyne used to do, our government is quick to label them collaborators of the enemy. They are said to be blackening Somaliland 's name in international arena. These are well-known tactics which serve many purposes for the people in power.

I am sure you know all about it. But like the citizens of Ecclesiastica, you chose to sing along with it.

[Fyr]

The Government of Somaliland response to amnesty/African rights Accusation

 

 

Hargeisa(The Rep)- The government of Somaliland responds to Amnesty accusations regarding the case of Samsam Ahmed Du'ale and Osman Jama Warsame. Somaliland forum urges Appeal Court to release 4 defence lawyers sentenced to 3 year prison .

 

 

Ministry of Justice in its first reaction against criticism by Amnesty International and African Rights stated that the 2 suspects who re in custody have all the rights as other prisoners and are allowed to be visited by their families, lawyers and human rights organizations and that they will be released if not found guilty .

 

 

The statement from the ministry of Justice states that Somaliland has no special courts to oppress people and that the judiciary system has no place for forced confession, to be used against suspected people and that those sentenced have the right to appeal to higher courts against any sentence

 

 

Speaking about the age of Samsam, who claims to be raped while in custody, but whom the government accuses of being suspected of conspiracy and espionage said, " Amnesty and African Rights give her age as 16 and 17 respectively, but that she had told the court that she is 18 years old and as such that she will be treated as a mature and not as an under age'

 

 

Regarding the beating and torture while in custody the ministry responded saying, " The court sent them for medical investigation and check up and that the doctors have declared that the 2 suspects were not beaten, nor tortured and that Samsam was not raped."

 

 

The Justice Ministry response also states that Amnesty International and African Rights based their accusation on rumours in the city and statements by individuals who are the enemies of the country and who made condemning the country their business.â€

 

 

The statement reiterated that the propaganda given to the case and the 2 reports will have negative consequences on the girl for traditionally she will be segregated by the community and that clan vengeance might follow such publicity.

 

 

The ministry in its response stated that the government supports the right for civic society organizations to assist in the implementation of justice, that individuals have the right to assemble and join any social, economic or political organizations. But The statement added "These rights assisted the formation of organizations who have no clear cut obligations and who have misused these rightsâ€.

 

 

The ministry calls on civic societies to avoid what the ministry referred to as the overuse of these rights, to respect the law of the country and to avoid being an obstacle for the performance of Justice in the country. In conclusion the statement tanks the US, UK, Norway, Sweden as well as UN and other International organizations who assist raising human Rights in the country.

 

 

Mean while Somaliland Forum, an Intellectual organization in the diaspora in an urgent message to the Appeals Court, requested the immediate release of the 4 defence lawyers, who were sentenced to 3-year prison on November 24/04.

 

 

Somaliland Forum in its request stated that the Penal Code applied in sentencing the 4 lawyers to be outdated. It added saying, "The suspects should not loose the right to have legal defence, that the sentence against the lawyers is severe and that disciplinary measure would have been sufficient.

 

 

Somaliland Forum concluded its request by reminding the judiciary that the quick decision taken against the defence have affected the prestige of the country abroad.

[Gabbal]

So let me guess. It has taken ALL THIS TIME to get the "Somaliland" forum or the government to say something about this barbaric, uncivilised event happening under their watch, in their prisons, by their soldeirs and all because the young woman in question is from Puntland :confused:

 

It's obvious what made them respond was not any kalsooni they hold for the young girl, but of a futile attempt to wash the unwashable stain that now clouds their unsuccessful secessionist attempts.

 

Cajiib walahi. I say we should give a salute to the Puntland media for highlighting this atrocious misconduct on the "Somaliland" side concerning the plight of the innocent young girl in question :mad:

 

 

p.s. Fyr-Kanten, sxb I clearly remember you and same other waqooyi nomads at first denying that such a thing can happen in "Somaliland" , and now you and the other "Somalilanders" are constantly bombarding this forum with articles about the girl in an attempt to convince us of a (non-existent) concern you have for the young woman in question.

 

Truly Sad.

[Kowneyn]

Horn Afrique:

 

What took you so long to jump on the bandwagon, after all puntlanders are paying tribute to adeero siyaad by using and perfecting his techniques.

 

Even if one sees politics as a game, then we must realize even games have rules. The exploitation of this alleged victim of rape and the advertisement of her picture for political gain is a despicable act that should be condemned.

 

This case has nothing to do with the sovereignty of Somaliland and the people who are fighting for Samsam are die-hard Somalilanders, they are infact the very people who brought down your adeeros fascist regime.

 

Somalilanders condemn (and this only a start) the hypocrisy of the remnants of the fascist regime, the supporters of the likes of cabdillaahi yusuf, morgan and gaani, while at the same time fighting for justice for samsam.

[Gabbal]

What took you so long to jump on the bandwagon, after all puntlanders are paying tribute to adeero siyaad by using and perfecting his techniques.

Bandwagon? Sxb don't lump me into anything period. Besides your hatred for a certain Clan is so obvious, it's actually sad that you hold that much bottled up feelings for a name :eek: , yes a name, then an actualy individual person. That hatred is actually leading you to make some clearly incoherent remarks such as "Puntlands paying tribute to adeero Siyaad". Hello, "Puntlanders" started the first oppositon movement, but of course you don't really care because they and Siad come together somewhere in the genealogical line don't they? :rolleyes:

 

The exploitation of this

alleged

victim of rape and the advertisement of her picture for political gain is a despicable act that should be condemned.

Alleged? So you still don't believe it happened? :eek:

 

I won't say you're sadistc, because I'm sure you wouldn't want that to happened to any girl, but I will call you psychological case because obviously the name, yes the name, of her Clan is clouding your judgement and reasoning skills.

 

What is despicable about the whole things is that fact THAT IT HAPPENED PERIOD!

 

What I don't find despicable is the Puntland media highlighting it, because that's what the media IS SUPPOSED TO DO! :eek: To bring awareness to issues and make the people aware. It's not the Puntland media's fault that it happened, but it is their fault if they don't bring justice to the sadistic folks that did that to the innocent girl.

 

Somalilanders condemn (and this only a start) the hypocrisy of the remnants of the fascist regime,

War yaa ileen balaayo arkay?

 

Sxb what does Siad Barre's decade-plus defucnt administration have anything to do with the plight of this young woman?

 

Ahh, here comes the Clan connection. Truly sad.

[Fyr]

I remember the thread you are referring to Horn as I recall I didn’t deny the authenticity of the story, I simply asked for an alternative source which was right of me to ask in the midst of all of the propaganda circulating these days.

 

 

This is not an attempt to show my concern for the girl, it’s hardly any attempt to show any kind of feelings towards this girl. This is purely to show the other side of the story/news, for example did the other camp update us about the girl telling the court about her real age? Is it wrong to post the other side of the story/news and not be accused of trying to convince others of something?

 

All I can say about this story is that only Allah knows what really happened to this girl and none of us in this forum can with 100 % certainty say what really happened.

 

About us bombarding the forum Wow!

It’s funny you mention this, it was not to long ago you and Smith hade a flood period (Jubba Conflict)

You and Smith were trying so hard to hide

your hatred towards each other, at the same time

trying to convince us of a (non-existent) Somaliweyn.

[Gabbal]

All I can say about this story is that only Allah knows what really happened to this girl

True, but from the get-go you a stance of falsifyin the information just because somehow, somewhere "Somaliland" was included.

 

About us bombarding the forum Wow! It’s funny you mention this, it was not to long ago you and Smith hade a flood period (Jubba Conflict).

Sxb I'm not talking about you posting whatever you want per se, but just the fact that you were tring so hard to hide your hypocritical feelings, which were clearly obvious I assure you .

 

You and Smith were trying so hard to hide your hatred towards each other, at the same time trying to convince us of a (non-existent) Somaliweyn.

Sxb I'm not going to be "mean", and say I'm not you :rolleyes: ... but I don't hate anyone much less Smith. Smith and I had a political disagreement, and we know where to cross or not cross the boundry, but sadly you don't.

 

Somaliweyn is existent and much more then you know!

 

Abdulahi Yusuf is the last person I would've have picked as president (I was actually rooting for Caddow), but since he did become the president, I, 100%, hope and pray that this government works and that the Somali Republic's seats in the UN, Arab League, AU, etc, get filled.

 

Only my love for Somalia and its unity that I hold sacred and muqadas, would have had me support Abdulahi Yusuf. Only Somaliweyn did and will. The theory of Greater Somalia, pan-Somalism, is an idea that will be revived and the Somali state will encompass ALL the Somali territories in the horn of Africa inshallah.

 

People can have political difference, which is actually healthy, seeing as how it balances out the policies in a state, but that does NOT mean they aren't patriotic toward their nation.

 

Long Live the Somali Republic sxb (and I hope someday that you lose all your hate and realize that unity is the way).

[Kowneyn]

Horn Afrique:

 

Your nonsensical ranting tells me that I hit the mark

 

Its unfortunate that a goon like you is accusing me of hating a certain clan. When all I did was reciprocate your love and obsession for Somaliland.

 

Regarding the "first opposition" and adeero Siyaad and his fascist regime they were two sides of the same coin. That fact is not because of genealogical relations but the nature of their goals and the foundations of their politics etc.