Sign in to follow this  
Saalax

World Bank Poverty report on Somalia: Somaliland region(NW) poorer than Puntland

Recommended Posts

Wow, really man. have you no decency.

I really do not know what to make of that, but then again, at best, trying to have a conversation with a Somali person is like talking to a person suffering from a rare type of schizophrenia. Did you just call me a liar without having any reasonable cause or evidential material data to support your argument, or refute what was presented in the report?

"It said , statistics do not lie, but liars use statistics. I have never seen anywhere about Puntland budget reaching %160 million."

 

Just to demonstrate the foggy nature of your psyche and your lapse in sound reading, there are Cagaarre, Heema, Daara Salam, Bacaadweyn, Xarfo, and then Buurtinle. And that is just naming a few on the main tarmac road. why do you insist on postulating upon subjects beyond your grasp, i will never know.

"On the rural issue, Puntland has the lowest number of villages and rural communities. Between Garoowe and Gaalkacayo, which is almost 250km , there is one single town called Burtinle."

 

Again, what are we basing this on? and please try data, figures and hard statistics unless of course you are a Drumfite, in which case, never mind.

"Of course Somaliland has huge rural population, from Awdal to Sanaag which could triple in size than Puntland,"

 

I will leave it there. how does one form an opinion without studying data presented, i will never know. only Somalis can do that with a straight face. Naturally, civilised people use scientific and mathematical data to make or support a point, but why bother with that when you have got your own home-grown facts and conjectures. plus, a cultured person would try to understand what he/she does not know to expand his spectrum, but a Somali's purview is confined to his small range, village, family, or clique. all else does not matter. damn you people, when will you ever evolve from being accursed nomads.

"To be honest I did not read the report, but ..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Illyria, PL dad badan baa xasaasiyad dabiici ku qaba, marka ha la yaabin. I have seen Eelay, Jareer, and many other clans that have no history nor borders hating on MJ's for nothing. It is fashionable among Somali clans to hate on MJ's apparently. This curmudgeon named Galbeedi if you closely follow his posting history has a clear anti MJ bent to him from the Galkayo clashes to the federalism issue. When did G/bursi and PL'ers ever have a beef bal ? Saalax started this thread but somehow his construes as it something it wasn't.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not know if that is the case. besides, healthy rivalry between regions and "xifaaltan" among peoples is acceptable, and even encouraged, but downright ignorance with four legs in trousers in a broad daylight is nauseating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As people, we have got our priorities upside down.

This is what we should be talking about instead of the usual diatribe of "mine is bigger or better" than yours.

 

“In line with other relevant non-monetary indicators, such as education and employment, households living in North East show a relatively low degree of inequality in access to an improved source of water between urban and rural areas. Indeed, more than seven in ten people living in urban households of North East have access to an improved source of water, against about 5 in ten in rural areas; a stark contrast to the North West region, where only 52 percent of urban dwellers and 9 percent of people living in rural households report access to an improved source of water (Figure 2.23). “

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

said:

 

To be honest I did not read the report, but we all know that per capita Somaliland has more stable middle class than both Puntland and even Mogadishu.

 

I use to think Galbeedi was ilbax and a sensible contributor. But why on earth would you write 8 paragraphs refuting a report you didn't even read?

 

Only a badow somali would refute a scientific report based on statistics with 'we all know that...'

 

Your first homework is to read the report, Galbeedi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys,

 

This is a survey based on some answers given to some NGOs outfits in Somali peninsula, who in turn were working for World Bank. Which means, it's not a scientifically proven report, much less a statistically verifiable report that can stand a deep examination.

 

Again it's report (a snap-shot poll, if you like) that is being taking on the basis of "self-assessment answers" by Somali's household, whereby in turn, the "samples" in which the "survey" is based on was actually selected by those NGOs, who are in turn locally based in each region.

 

Hence, this is no more intellectually rigorous than a mere "glorified fiction", no matter how much some folks in here are desperate to read into this survey too much of their political bias agenda. Which means, give it a rest, chaps, since, this report, however much you may like it, doesn't prove anything other than to indicate the shoddy works in which the World Bank had seen fit enough to attach their name to it, for some reason.

 

Consequently the idea that says, this report tells us about the "true economical reality" that pertains to the conditions prevailing in the Somali peninsula has as much intellectual credibility as the idea of saying, that, the "electoral snap-shot polls" (which are usually based on a "self-selected answers" of those who are questioned in the street) are the reflection of the who is likely to be the election winner in any western country democratic election, particularly before the day of the election itself.

 

And to see those of you who are in the West, who should know better, in particularly, as to how this sort of thing is genuinely misleading, given that you guys can easily recall how any "polling survey" based on a "self-reporting answers" could be catastrophically wrong in telling a true picture of reality, since you have witnessed how polling data got it so badly the election of Mrs Clinton in the recent US's presidential election, is genuinely baffling, indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ Abdi,

 

His is a case of when reality contradicts your preconceptions you ditch reality.:D Hala yaabin ninka waxaa ku siiqay propagandiida 30 yrs isaaqu tufayeen. Do you all ever realize how he talks like an Isaaq supremacist ala Xaaji Xunjuf? The record is clear.

 

He is trying to mend fences with the secessionists, I have noticed that, he is less critical of them. This post and others are an effort to ingratiate himself to the clique. Don't be suprised one of these days if he comes out with a long post stating the reasons he is ditching Somaliweyn and fully supporting SL.

 

I have always found him to be a flaky, fickle, insincere, conceited and fairweather calan wade type character just like his uncle Prof Samatar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^

You are talking about used methodologies of collecting data, which could be questioned and debated, however scientific methods and statistical formulae had been applied to analyse the data. The two are not mutually exclusive. Surely, you are not suggesting otherwise, are you?

 

Again, the focus must be upon deplorable conditions and glaring findings of the report mainly about lack of access to improved water (not clean water), incredibly low academic fulfillment and skillset, and lack of development in the country as a whole. I do realise that is hard for many, but try applying yourselves and squeeze that thinking organ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horta ninkan Illyra, nin cusub baan moodayey, laakiin hadan gartay i uu yahay ragii hore.

 

Guys, I criticize both Mogadishu , Hargeisa and Kismaayo, when I see inconsistencies and other issues.

 

Illyra, You do not need to accuse me schizophrenia or other names, then call for reasonable debate. I see People in Somali forums who say " IlLaahay Ha laga cabsado oo Qayaalada ha la iska daayo, Kadibna ka dab geeya reer hebel ayaa Soomaali qasaya ee halaga Qabto".

 

Any way if is any consolation, I did not call you a liar, but I was pointing out that statistics are used for nefarious purposes in order to propagate certain agenda. In any case, I would like to apologize for using bad words to explain my points. I blame my limited vocabulary for the infraction. This place is already becoming toxic, and I , Galbeedi should not be one of those mudding the water.

 

Guys, I am a champion of Puntland, and in these pages I did write the political maturity of the people despite the constant bad leadership that is ruling the land. Also, in these pages, we all need to be informed and educated i n so many different ways. Somalia, the people and the landscape probably has changed for the last thirty years.

 

In the early eighties when I traveled the highway from Gaalkacayo to Garoowe, the only village that was visible was Burtine, with two blocks on both side of the highway. Since then things has changed and a video clip that I saw during the drought showed Burtinle as vibrant town. Any way , I stand corrects o those new towns.

 

At the same time Puntland has huge land with less population. Having big space is not disadvantage. In fact, if you add the "Harti" land of Sool, Sanaag and Buuhoodle, Puntland could claim a third of Somali territories.

 

I did read the report, but I did not analyze it fully. When they said North west, they did not explain which North West. If you compare the two and half provinces of Puntland with five provinces of Somaliland, it is totally different both in population size and Urban area. I also conceded that because of less rural population Puntland might have less poverty compared to Somaliland.

 

Saaxiib ,

 

I objected your budget estimate and I do remember, in the early 2000, the Puntland budget was around 16 million. Lately, I have seen any where where the budget hit three digits.

 

Generally, I do not like these NGO's who keep spending money about FGM, poverty, and how many relieve aids Africa and others take. Those who compiled these report probably made a cool million that could have built an irrigation canal.

 

Furthermore, we should not be debating which village is bigger than mine or yours. WE are all poor Somalis ruled by corrupt oligarchs and thieves

 

As our friend Maakhiri said, we need someone to study the disastrous Qat effect both in Puntland and Somaliland which would have helped our people.

 

Finally, Puntlanders , please accept that sometimes we might throw an arrow in that side of the land so have a patience. .I have no hatred of MJ or Puntlanders.

 

Also , Lately I am in the mood to ignore these big Somali villages and concentrate for the big picture. On my fending fences to the SNM boys, that is just ridiculous. I have been criticising them for years, yet they have the backbone to take it.

 

Don't you think that in this election season that we should give some break to the SNM Habro and their neighbors for doing the unthinkable which is free election.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anoo Kale,

 

I am a long time reader here. Decided to post recently. Galbeedi seemed reasonable but the 'I didn't read the report yet I will try to refute it' did not sink well with me. It's badownimo to the core.

 

 

Oodweyne,

 

The world bank finances your so called country. You're eager to accept their money but not their scientific statistical based reports. This report is in line with a previous UN report that suggested that an IDP in Bosaso earns twice as much as a native hargaysaawi.

 

It speaks volume of your small mindness and pettiness that you try to question an immense poverty survey by the World bank, a survey that is 134 pages long!

 

The outcome also surprised the researchers to the point they added other poverty parameters such as consumption to see if they also match up to the other findings of the other parameters. They added two extra appendixes to show how careful the data has been assessed.

 

.

 

Never be a xaasid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said Boosaaso has a tradition of business and self reliance. They were never dependent on government handouts and jobs. By far the " Bari" region is the most populous in Puntland. Nugaal is very small. Before the Sool region became a province in the middle of eighties, the Nugaal region was : Garoowe, Tallex, Eyl iyo Laascaanood. After Sool became provence, Nugaal was left with Eyl and Garoowe then other small towns were added.

 

My only beef with the report is the sampling does not specify the size or the actual region. I agree the water access part which favors Puntland, yet because of huge Urban growth in Somaliland , a large number of cities have lower water access.

 

If you read carefully my quick written paragraphs , I did mention the size of middle class and access to wealth. Larger cities have more middle class and also large poor underclass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This would not surprise me at all as I have been told by people who travelled Berbera Garowe triangle that they were astonished the widespread poverty that they see on the way to Berbera. Somaliland have few big family runned companies the likes of Dahabshiil, Oomar etc who are super rich at least in the Somali standard, but that comes to the detriment of small and medium sized enterprises. Puntland on the other hand does not have big companies as such but S&M is thriving hence wealth is better disbursed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Illyra And Abdul,

 

Folks, as an educated chaps, I expect you two fellows to know the inference (or the conclusion) in which you can draw from a "data sample" is as good, or is as reliable, as your data is, in the first place.

 

In other words, the smaller the data is (i.e., the smaller the sample is) the more error-prone your conclusion will really be liable to be. I found it difficult that you two chaps, have no two minds to rub together, just to understand this simply statistical reality.

 

Hence, if you really have read the report, in which I did by the way, from first page to the last. And in fact, as I have indicated it I have actually started at the back of the report, where how the sample were put together and the methodology that was used gets to be explained in great length, you will see how the "sample" in which all the information that was "deduced" for the North East's economical reality (in-terms of the "conditions" of the households that was interview for this survey) is actually many times smaller than the "sample" that was used to determined for the "conclusion" for the North West.

 

And this "unequal two samples", is, if you guys know anything about statistics, the "first category mistake" of this report.

 

What this means is that a statistical report (or a survey, if you like) based on a "sample" of 1000 people has no "statistical correlation" (in-terms of the answers it will give) to the answers that can be "deduced" from a "sample" of 50 people and what sort of "conclusion" it turn may produced.

 

And no matter how you try to "fix" the questions, you still will not get any "statistical correlation" between the "two samples", even if you ask the same, repeated, and a precise questions to the two groups (i.e., ask the same exact questions to both the 50 people sample and the 1000 people sample).

 

So, as I said it, this is the first mistake. And as to why the World bank didn't correct it, so that their "two samples" could be similar in size, is actually a mystery to me.

 

Secondly, the household survey in which this report is based on, is actually, a sets of questions that was given to a select households in both regions (i.e., North East and North West) by a local Somali NGOs who were working for the World bank. And then, these households were given some time to answer these questions that was put to them, without (those NGOs or the World Bank) having any way of scientifically "verifying" whether these "answers" that were given by individual households that was surveyed have actually answered the questions that was put to them truthfully or not.

 

In other words, each household that was surveyed (in both regions) can choose to answer those "intrusive questions" about their level income, their house-hold food consumption, their level of tertiary education, and their "perception" how good they are doing, economically, in comparison to their next door household neighbor, on the basis of their own "assumption" and on the basis of whatever they think about this issue, without anyone else (be the World Bank or be it anyone else) actually be in a position in "ascertaining" or having the ability to "verify" whether those answers are scientifically correct ones. Or whether they are so much of a concoction and eye-watering guff of the most laughable kind.

 

And this mean (in practical terms) that some one knocks your door in Garowe or in Hargeisa (say for example) and then they introduced themselves as working for the World bank, and wonder aloud whether you will spare some time to answer some questions pertaining to your household "economical condition" in which they will like to put it to you.

 

And if you were to agree to their request, then your answers to those questions (regardless of which ever way you answer them) will be "collected" from you by this local Somali NGOs, without anyone having a "clue" as to whether you have lied to them through your teeth. Or whether you simply have answered those questions to the best of your ability.

 

And once this little meaningless exercise is done and being dusted with, then, those folks who have imposed their presence at your household will thank you for your co-operation (and your patience) and will proceed to the next house that is in their target street that should be "surveyed" and one after that.

 

Subsequently, once of all the answers (and remember, they are not scientific answers, much less of a statistically verifiable answers) are collected in one bundle of notes, then, those NGOs, will collate the date into a spread-sheet and then they will hand-over those "spread-sheet data" to the World bank representative that is located in each surveyed region.

 

And after that, the World Bank, will put all of these "unverified answers" through its statistical software (or through a suite of statistical software program) in-order to break up the answers (or form them) into a "Mega Data" that can be read as a "statistical surveyed" outcome pertaining to the condition of the economical picture in certain part of the Somali peninsula.

 

This is the reality of how this cheap malarkey of a report in which you are parading in here was actually put together. And this means, if the self-given answers (i.e., the unverified answers in which each house-hold that was surveyed has given in turn) is wrong, then the whole "Mega Data" in which this survey is based on is also a nonsense-on-stilts.

 

Or as Computer geeks are known to be fond of in saying: "Garbage In, Garbage Out"

 

This is what we have in here, chaps. And to see educated folks, who presumably could read this report as well could have a decent understanding of how statistical Mega data is put together (and the painstaking care such data ought to be handle with so that it could be "verifiable" afterwards) are not any the wiser in here, particularly when it comes to really grasping how shoddy, let alone how unscientific, this report is, actually baffles me, to say the least.

 

And here is some one like Illyra, actually having the "cheek" to ask others, like me to "squeeze" that "thinking" organs of mine, when in fact he seems to have put his ones into a "sleep-mode" (at best).

 

Or at worse, basically, he seems to have decided to use it to "cheer-leader" for any mendacious report that comes across his desk so long as it speaks a "glowing" terms of what the "economical condition" in North-East of the Somali peninsula can alleged to be in comparison to whatever in turn can be said to exist in the North West.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this