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bosmanoglu

Somalia, Turks, Conspiracies and Future

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Hello… Let me introduce myself… I am a Turkish citizen who is a good reader of politics and had an education in political science. I am curious by nature and have great interest in Somalia and its politics, development and future.

 

I can safely say that, I have read everything on internet about Somalia and Somalis. (When I use the term Somalia, I mean Country in broader sense, including all Country). Having read all corners of forums, news, NGO articles etc. I decided to write something about Turkish Aid and Turkish perspective on Somalia and my hopes-predictions for future Somalia.

 

May be it will not fit in one post but I will talk about:

1. Turkish motive and cultural codes on aid tradition

2. Development of State and Civil Society and stages

3. Social implications of Development

4. What future holds for us?

 

Let me start.

 

1. One needs to understand facts and phenomenon in correct perspective.

Let me talk about Somalia first. You all know last 25 years of turbulence and destruction. There is not much to talk about it. I want to talk about Somalia before. Somalia was a country with a great intellectual human potential, self-sufficient economy and strong security institutions. Try to think of 1970s, this was unusual and uncommon in African politics. So after everything happened, all intellectual human resource and financial capital of country has scattered around the world. We Turks are accustomed to this situation and sympathize with diaspora people who craves their old homeland, fighting to preserve their culture and keep their children not to be assimilated in host societies. At the same time, children brought up abroad grown critical on extremes and have less appreciation of Somalia as a country and society. This is a tough problem to be addressed some time in development timeline.

 

Now some words about Turkiye. Turkish people is proud to have a “statehood” tradition of more than 2000 years and played important roles in world history. As “defenders of islam” they engaged expeditions of vast scales and formed an empire that covers almost all North Africa, Sahara, East Africa, Arabia, Balkans and Caucasus. So, among this rich history, there is a culture that associates this expansion. Although Ottomans had a moderate interpretation of islam, as holders of caliphate, Turkish state assumed role of defending muslims all over the world and did everything possible to expand islam to new territories. There are muslim countries in Europe (Bosnia, Albania, Kosova etc) that practices islam over 7 centuries. Also, in West and Saharan Africa and East and South Africa. These are results of these “expansionist” policies. Ottomans was not an empire in European sense. What I mean by this is the Islamic principles that guides these policies. Ottomans believed to set an example of peace and justice to show new lands islam’s offer of peace. Yet they did not force islamization and were practical to continue trade and development even if these lands don’t turn to islam. When you think of it, if Greeks, Arabs etc still exist today that is because of this Ottoman tolerance. Ottomans had the power and means to wipe them out, assimilate etc. But they didn’t. Another aspect of Ottoman rule was development. Conquered lands were built, trade and commerce expanded. All these at the expanse of Turkish mainland (Anatolia). After arab betrayel and collapse of empire, All Turkiye left was underdeveloped Anatolian lands receiving refugees from all over the world.

 

Later, we had war of independence during 1920s. We fought with all existing super-powers combined and Turkish Republic emerged. So when you talk about colonialism, imperialism and western attitudes, believe me we Turks know this story. Coming decades, we had huge reforms on economy and social spheres and joined Western Block, European institutions and NATO. Please don’t take this lightly, being a player on these leagues is a difficult task. You coexist with allies that behaves like your worst enemies. That’s another long essay topic.

 

Turkiye struggled economic crisis and turmoils until 1990s. After that we had 2 catastrophic earthquakes. Eventually, Turkiye reached to a stable economic status of being 17th largest economy in the world and having the largest army in Europe.

 

One last cultural ingredient to understand Turks: Practicality. Having an imperial background, an average Turk would expect excellence in all services or products, yet expects it fast. So a business or a government service in Turkey operates in an environment running against time and having criticisms from all around. So, when Turkiye engages in these projects in Somalia, there is nothing new to us. When president says that we will build 20.000 homes in 24 months, this could sound crazy to a westerner, but believe me it could be done. This is Turkish style.

 

I was laughing when I read comments from old Turkish ambassador to Somalia. UN-rep and a westerner journalist says to him that Turkish Aid is not coordinated with other Aid organizations etc. He replies: “Sorry I don’t have time to fly back and forth to Nairobi to attend to meaningless meetings. We have job to do in Mogadishu”. This is not a political stance, a typical Turkish attitude to have the job done.

 

After setting the facts, with this economic confidence Turkiye started today’s aid campaign. Turkish aid reaches to all over the world from Haiti to Africa, From Africa to Far East. Regardless of religion or cultural affiliation, Turkiye tries to help to people in need. This is not different from Ottoman motivations: try to set up a good example for islam and have prayers of people in need in return.

 

At times I see forum comments on how Turkiye is after Somalia oil and resources etc. It is funny yet at the same time sad to see such comments. Turkiye is buying almost all grain, corn from Russia, paying money. I would love to see one day we buy our agriculture needs from Somalia. This is not exploitation, this is trade among partners. On oil and energy, we buy %60 of all Russian gas, also from Iran and Azerbaijan. Notice those countries are in close proximity to us, it is economically viable to buy from them instead of drilling in a place 4000kms away. So Somalia resources is not economically meaningful to us. Rest assured, please. Especially in today’s lowest oil market, believe me you are better off not to drill any energy source except for country’s own use.

 

I hope I have provided some insight about Turkish attitudes and about our culture. It is normal to see envious criticism from Westerners and Chinese, but it is also sad to see undermining comments from Somalis from other regions.

 

2. As mentioned, we Turks have long history of statehood. As saying goes:”Ya devlet basa, ya kuzgun lese”, meaning “either a state on your top, or a crow on your corpse”. So state, social union, participation etc have strong meanings in Turkish culture.

Don’t get me wrong but, as a friend, let me say this. On population perspective, whole Somalia is smaller than a district of Istanbul. To built infrastructure, or maintain projects on this scale is not a big deal. Also, Somalis should refrain to see themselves in a place where they are not. Scales are known, geostrategic is known, economic necessities are known. In the grand scheme of things, these are not impossible tasks or most important task in the world. So please, eye on the prize: priorities and targets.

 

What Turkey provides a holistic approach. That means, you need to incorporate today-tomorrow on what you are doing. Also you should follow a rational path to built a state. That’s why Turkish state and ngos are investing in hospitals, orphanages, ports, schools, which are todays immediate needs. Yet at the same time, Turkey renovates all ministries, providing equipment and training to personnel, providing scholarships to thousands of Somalis. Those will be the building block of future. On order of things, strategy of Turkey is to follow “Relief, Restoration, Security, Economy” order. Thankfully, we have passed Relief stage. Famine had disappeared, water projects finished etc. Now we are on Restoration of government stage. With all its institutions. On this perspective, as a Somali you should be a little patient around 3-4 years. These things don’t happen overnight. But be sure, in 3-4 years, Somalia Government will be fully functioning with its services, tax collection, regulatory bodies, social security etc.

 

Next stage is security. I have read the news and comments about new military bases, production facilities etc. I should mention here that if we Turks are good at one thing that would be military professionalism and discipline. This base mentioned is not a Turkish base by the way. As Turkish military delegation explains, this base is a Somali Army base. We are building it for Somali Army, not for Turkish Army. Secondly, commander says there should be many things done about basics, clothing, barracks, sanitation, small armament etc. As being served in Turkish Army 2 years myself, I can say that with little training offered by US, EU or African Union, you can’t say that there is an army there. Army means, you need to have people who accepts this as their profession, having a lifelong training, obtaining highest discipline and moral attitude etc. So accept that news as a start but in a very short time, with facilities and Turkish training, Somali Army will be at world standards. I will elaborate this later.

 

After Security next stage will be economy. This stage has a potential of creating a lot of social turmoil. Having in mind bad tribalism attitudes, remnants of corruption from UN mandate, diaspora effect, etc etc. At the moment government is financing everything with aid, they are struggling to find financial aid from wherever they can. Government is trying to keep everything afloat with no income at hand. You do now that there is no one in Somali paying any taxes at the moment, right? So it is sad to see youngsters criticizing government about “begging” and stuff like that. On the contrary, What I would love to see would be social campaigns to support government. Voluntary tax of 1 US per month for example. If every Somali in and out of country would do that, government would earn tens of millions every month to pay wages, to buy equipment, to provide services etc. Anyways, this stage will be painful as I mention, we will see about it in coming days.

 

Another under-appreciated aspect of current government is about democratic attitudes. So far, presidents and parliament has shown an unexpected democratic and civil attitude on conflict resolutions. Considering tribal fault lines, economic hardships etc, this is a very promising indicator about Somalia’s political culture. I think civil society should follow governments lead on this. To achieve tasks in baby-steps without resorting to violence and conflict. Always maintaining minimum agreements instead of maximalist jumps.

There are much to be mentioned here, lets save them to another article.

 

3. Every transition bears fruits of confrontations. As in this case, developing Somalia as a state and society is an enormous and potentially troublesome process. Now at this stage fault lines lie between regional/tribal differences, urban/rural imbalance, domestic/diaspora relations, security/personal freedoms aspects.

 

Most and critical problem is about tribalism. To one extend regional politics is understandable on municipal and local cultural perspective. But tribal divide in Somalia is a serious phenomenon. It intrinsically has a danger potential. I hope you realize that these divides are fueled by UK, Arab countries and Chinese. Their motivations are to create spheres of influences to keep Somalia in manageable portions. We fought with China for 1000 years and English around 200 years. So Trust me, we know what we are up against. I hope every Somali in this world should understand the importance of one strong Somalia State, which would be there to protect them in times of need.

 

Urban and Rural divide is also important. Rural aspect is Somalia’s best and worst potential. What I mean is Somalia has potential of being Africa’s and Middle East’s food basket by investing in rural development. Yet at the same time low education makes rural population prone to more propaganda and manipulation. Realize elshabab receives support from most underdeveloped rural parts and tribes of Somalia. So, projects like Agriculture School in Mogadishu, Rural water projects, Scholarships to rural children are at great importance.

 

Diaspora is also important potential. Both positively and negatively. Think of locals that experienced worst of worst in country, yet struggled and survived. Then all of a sudden some guy pops up in chick jeans, money in pocket, opening up supermarkets, banks, shops around. You see what I mean, I believe. Diaspora, while being very important to revive economy and commerce, has a potential of confrontation with relatively poor and war torn segments of society. On this issue, I would like to give my humble advice. Instead of complaining about impossibility of having Somalis as workers, how city and country sucks, etc etc., diaspora people should empatize with what happened on the ground while they safely escaped and experienced relatively safe environments in West. Every uneducated person educated, every poor person made self-sufficient is a gain for country. There could be no greater patriotic deed that you could make for your homeland. So, support every-single-individual around. If not, there won’t be a safe future for you also.

 

About security and open society, one should keep in mind one bitter truth. Elshabab will not disappear. Top terrorist will be killed, land will be regained but remnant will be living in society for a long time in future. After all, those people didn’t came from space. Before they were recruited/forced to be a terrorist, they were ordinary people of Somalia. This will always be an obstacle for personal freedoms in foreseeable future. This a long term problem to be addressed with scholars, theologians and good practice examples of islam. Please remember my word of advise on this thing: if a person is using religion for its personal, economical or political gain, that is the person doing most damage to religion itself. This goes for the government also. So a good muslim should always refrain from setting up a tiny bad example in the name of Allah, Quran and religion. Use these concepts very carefully please.

 

4. Final section about future predictions. I am an optimist myself and I have great confidence in Somalis. So future seems very bright to me.

 

With Turkish support, government will be up and running very soon. Also, in middle term you will have a great army. Economy is reviving already; with further investment projects it will flourish. Let me elaborate on these a bit.

 

I know that there is a huge generation gap with old Somali people and younger generation. Younger generation is more open to world, uses internet heavily, sees world examples and demanding much. This is a huge potential for Somalia. One important aspect those young generation will contribute would be “open society”. When I see Ted-talks, anti-trialism movement, maternal education initiatives from young people, I get so excited and hopeful. This should be the way forward. Please teach your elders to get in touch with the world more. Help them to create a transparent government and governance practices. But please do it with respect and convincing. :)

 

On army-navy-saf perspective, I should also mention some information. We turks produce everything. Ships, planes, tanks, arms, etc etc. Our industry does this exceptionally good, over world standards. Our products are in NATO standarts much different than Russian or Chinese junks. Please take time to see our ATAK helicopter, Altay tank, our satellites, etc. This didn’t happen overnight, it is an ongoing state project for last 3 decades. If Turkiye has something, please be confident that you will have it too. I am trying to visualize what you will have in near future. So please remember, baby-steps. In time after having trained personnel (which is going on constantly by the way), proper maintenance and technical facilities etc.

 

Economy is reviving as mentioned. Every economy bases on 2 factors: supply and demand. You could supply wonderful products but if there is no one having the financial power to buy it, it is meaningless. So socio-economic development should go in hand-to-hand with industry and commerce. For industry stage, it is now early considering security and political situations. But commerce will continue to grow. Especially retail, household goods, construction materials, petro-chemicals and automotive sales will boom in a very short time. (now you think those asphalt roads look pretty, see it after 5 years when it will not be sufficient for 500.000 cars, there won’t be a parking space around). For tourism it is also early but basic services sectors like cleaning, professional car maintenance, delivery services, food sector has great potential right at this moment. Remember my words, in 5 years everybody will start to complain about urban planning, how unplanned and insufficient old city is etc.

 

Ok, It has been a too long text to read. If you reached this far, thanks for reading :) Last word, is:

 

We Turks believe in Somalia. Somalis all over the world, please believe in it too.

 

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Hi.. :) personally I never voted for him. I can safely say that %50 of country adores him and other %50 hates him. Dictatorship is a strong statement; since we have rule of law and have strong civil society, it would never happen.

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galbeedi   

Bosmanoglu, welcome to SOL where some Somali diaspora nomads and others exchange freely on issues ranging from politics, religion to social and cultural. Although we have lost a lot for the last 30 years, I believe we are still a generous people toward guests, and I hope our friend Xabad will treat this Turkish visitor of Somalia online with the courtesy he deserves.

 

We really value the friendship of Turkey and the revival of our historical alliances. Relations between Somalia and Turkey date back to the Middle Ages and the ties between the Adal Sultanate and the Ottoman Empire. We may reside different continents, but I believe we are proud and resilient just as Turks are. We do not watch others make history, we are mobile not static.

 

Our biggest weakness is tribalism which can only be overcome by urbanization, economic development and merit based governance.

 

We are grateful for what Turkey have done for Somalis. Erdogan was the first and only leader to set foot those poor dusty roads of Somalia when others especially the corrupt, over weight gulf countries watched and waited.

 

Turkish Airlines became the first long-distance international commercial airline in two decades to resume flights to and from Mogadishu's Aden Adde International Airport. We never had great partner's to progress with. some forty years ago Spain and Portugal were Europe's tourists out posts with no significant economical progress. Then, in early eighties, they joined the European Union. Massive economic subsidies worth billions from the rich countries and open markets lifted their economies. Look where they are today. The poor rice farmers of Korea became Asia's economic power house due to their alliance with United State of America. We have been looking a credible ally for 55 years since independence, I believe Turkey could be a lasting friend in todays tough world.

 

There is no trade between Somalia and it's neighbors. Borders are closed for forty years, and no one is talking inter regional trades. The century old saying that " if the goods do not cross the border, soldiers will", certainly applies here. Our neighbors fear us. They either afraid of our armies or our business ingenuity. If Ethiopia and others agree on trade liberalization, we could take them over within few decades.

 

I agree, Arabs are not worth of any alliances or partners. On the other hand the Western nations welcomed tens of thousands of Somalis and a lot can be learned in terms of governance and democracy.

 

our country needs mentoring in the development of our economy, especially the agriculture and livestock sectors. I have been looking deeply in your agriculture, and I did find that Turkey produces 75% of the commercial hazelnuts in the world. We welcome direct Foreign investment in major sectors of the economy.

 

To achieve this partnership Turkey must work and push the ultimate goal of all Somalis, which is a Unified strong Somali state that can protect it's citizens and provide basic life and liberty for all.

 

Finally do not be discouraged by the nay Sayers. We are deeply fragmented nation , and fragmented people could barely agree on anything. The good news is that while we criticise and sometimes denounce our current government, most of us support the national government to succeed and move the country forward.

 

These are some of my random thoughts about the relationship.

 

May Allah bless Turkey, Somalia and Canada.

 

keep in touch.

 

 

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xabad   

<cite>
said:</cite>

Hi..
:)
personally I never voted for him. I can safely say that %50 of country adores him and other %50 hates him. Dictatorship is a strong statement; since we have rule of law and have strong civil society, it would never happen.

 

What rule of law ?

 

Erdogan is getting his way nilly willy, he built himself a tasteless expensive palace, bought a personal plane, usurped the powers of the PM'ship, he pretty much locks up any critic with impunity, what kind of judiciary do you have if one man can lock up citizens for mocking him.

I always thought Turkey was a semi mature democratic state, i was wrong. Supporting ISIS was perhaps the most cynical thing ever. Do you agree ?

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xabad   

<cite>
said:</cite>

Bosmanoglu, welcome to SOL where some Somali diaspora nomads and others exchange freely on issues ranging from politics, religion to social and cultural. Although we have lost a lot for the last 30 years, I believe we are still a generous people toward guests, and I hope our friend Xabad will treat this Turkish visitor of Somalia online with the courtesy he deserves.

 

We really value the friendship of Turkey and the revival of our historical alliances. Relations between Somalia and Turkey date back to the Middle Ages and the ties between the Adal Sultanate and the Ottoman Empire. We may reside different continents, but I believe we are proud and resilient just as Turks are. We do not watch others make history, we are mobile not static.

 

Our biggest weakness is tribalism which can only be overcome by urbanization, economic development and merit based governance.

 

We are grateful for what Turkey have done for Somalis. Erdogan was the first and only leader to set foot those poor dusty roads of Somalia when others especially the corrupt, over weight gulf countries watched and waited.

 

Turkish Airlines became the first long-distance international commercial airline in two decades to resume flights to and from Mogadishu's Aden Adde International Airport. We never had great partner's to progress with. some forty years ago Spain and Portugal were Europe's tourists out posts with no significant economical progress. Then, in early eighties, they joined the European Union. Massive economic subsidies worth billions from the rich countries and open markets lifted their economies. Look where they are today. The poor rice farmers of Korea became Asia's economic power house due to their alliance with United State of America. We have been looking a credible ally for 55 years since independence, I believe Turkey could be a lasting friend in todays tough world.

 

There is no trade between Somalia and it's neighbors. Borders are closed for forty years, and no one is talking inter regional trades. The century old saying that " if the goods do not cross the border, soldiers will", certainly applies here. Our neighbors fear us. They either afraid of our armies or our business ingenuity. If Ethiopia and others agree on trade liberalization, we could take them over within few decades.

 

I agree, Arabs are not worth of any alliances or partners. On the other hand the Western nations welcomed tens of thousands of Somalis and a lot can be learned in terms of governance and democracy.

 

our country needs mentoring in the development of our economy, especially the agriculture and livestock sectors. I have been looking deeply in your agriculture, and I did find that Turkey produces 75% of the commercial hazelnuts in the world. We welcome direct Foreign investment in major sectors of the economy.

 

To achieve this partnership Turkey must work and push the ultimate goal of all Somalis, which is a Unified strong Somali state that can protect it's citizens and provide basic life and liberty for all.

 

Finally do not be discouraged by the nay Sayers. We are deeply fragmented nation , and fragmented people could barely agree on anything. The good news is that while we criticise and sometimes denounce our current government, most of us support the national government to succeed and move the country forward.

 

These are some of my random thoughts about the relationship.

 

May Allah bless Turkey, Somalia and Canada.

 

keep in touch.

 

Galbeediyow, please read a book called "Tyranny of the Experts, by William Easterly". Here the is the nuxur of his idea gotten from the Wapo.

 

"In his provocative “The Tyranny of Experts,” he lays out a passionate, if fitful, argument against the conventional approach to economic development. In the realm of benevolent intervention, the standing rule has always been that you can walk into a poor country and, with enough experts, supplies and bureaucratic correctives, make it rich and alleviate the woes of poverty. But according to Easterly, this is a fatuous idea that has sparked more havoc than good."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/review-the-tyranny-of-experts-by-william-easterly-on-global-developments-errors/2014/05/02/5e9c46d2-ca1e-11e3-95f7-7ecdde72d2ea_story.html

 

The infatuation Somalis have with Turks is borne out of a certain third world mindset that envisages a benevolent foreign sugar daddy propelling them to economic development, this is deeply wrong. It never happened and never will. Change is inborn and not exogenous, the Quran states " Allah will not change condition of people until they change themselves." Africans are prone to cargo cultism.

 

In his irreverent classic The Trouble with Nigeria, Chinua Achebe attributes underdevelopment to a cargo cult mentality of ruling elites.

 

“One of the commonest manifestations of under-development is a tendency among the ruling elite to live in a world of make-believe and unrealistic expectations. This is the cargo cult mentality that anthropologists sometimes speak about — a belief by backward people that someday, without any exertion whatsoever on their own part, a fairy ship will dock in their harbour laden with every goody they have always dreamed of possessing,” he wrote.

 

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/bullet-trains-delusions-mega-techno-cities/-/440808/2450902/-/s9mfcxz/-/index.html

 

This fairy ship nowadays is Turkey, before that it was Reer Galbeedka. Eventually we have to grow up

 

Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore ordered his ministers to hang no begging signs on their doors, this little resourceless speck of an island refused to pass the begging bowl like so many developing nations and insisted on doing economic fundamentals right, the results have been spectacular. From the libertarian CATO institute;

"These were the four goals of Lee Kuan Yew’s Singapore Strategy: stable money, no foreign aid, first-world competition, and law and order. Now, to accomplish these goals, the key to the strategy was a “small,” transparent government — a minimalist government that avoided complexity and “red tape” — hence top ranking in the Doing Business report."

 

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/doing-business-singapore-style

 

Turkey is in Somalia for it cynical ends not out of brotherly love, stop being starry eyed. The same for western nations, Arab nations and African nations.

Erdogan's neo Ottoman PR stunts don't impress me, they should keep off.

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Bosmanoglu Welcome and thank you for writing that, pretty much how I see the situation as well.

 

Xabad. you have to be utterly blind to not see the drastic difference between the Somalia we see now and the one before the Turkish president visited. As for your beef with their president, I believe there is a song call "it's nobody's business but the Turks. As for us Somalis, I believe am in the Majority when I say we are great for the selfless help and support to our countrymen.

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xabad   

<cite>
said:</cite>

Bosmanoglu Welcome and thank you for writing that, pretty much how I see the situation as well.

 

Xabad. you have to be utterly blind to not see the drastic difference between the Somalia we see now and the one before the Turkish president visited. As for your beef with their president, I believe there is a song call "it's nobody's business but the Turks. As for us Somalis, I believe am in the Majority when I say we are great for the selfless help and support to our countrymen.

 

Read my reply to Galbeedi and get back to me, your naive and callow when in comes to development.

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xabad   

Arab bootyclapping has been replaced by Turkish bootyclapping in the Somali-lands. Afrikaan waa adoon tuugsi un taqaan, notice how they fall over each other to ingratiate themselves to an anonymous Turk on a message-board. Eebow adaa noo maqan.

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:) well.. first I am not anonymous, there is my name up there. unlike many, that is my real name. and I guess I wrote on the introduction who I am and what I want to describe.

 

Secondly, I categorically deny ISIS connections here. If you are watching news properly, our government was little cautious at first because of 40 diplomats were held as hostages for months. After that Turkish Air force is the first one that bombed ISIS targets. They still have one Turkish soldier hostage by the way. ISIS made two different bombings in east killing 25 and in capital Ankara killing over 100. You see how pleasant our relations with them. We have a 1000 km border mainly open field with Syria. There are many towns on border which have some neighborhoods in Turkiye and some in Syria. Clearly you donot understand the difficulty of controlling this border.

 

Sad thing is, most of these allegations are Russian/Syrian sources. If you judge things according to Sputnik/RT propaganda, sorry to say you are a victim of it.

 

Another point on your comments about Judiciary. I think you are not informed on specifics about internal politics. Erdogan has many flaws that is correct. One of which is his choice in compatriots. He had an alliance with some Tarikat since last year which turned out to be an apparatus of foreign intelligence services, infiltrated into courts and police. Until it touched to his personal interests president didn't act upon it but at the moment government is at open war with them. Dismissal of some judges, hich ranking police officers are happening in this context. (which everyone from right or left wing approves tacitly, because of horrible things these tarikat gangs did in the past).

 

One important thing to mention here. We have strong judiciary culture. High court judges every year traditionally scolds government in their speeches, one judge was openly critisizing government recently on human rights violations etc. Many multi-billion dollar projects of government is on-hold by decrees of courts on environmental concerns. So, as you may understand Erdogan has a lot way to go if he wants to be a dictator :) which would never happen.

 

So in a nutshell, as I wrote in my original post, instead of wasting time with propaganda news and articles, one should focus on task at hand. As in our case, restoration of Somalia as a state.

 

Cheers.

 

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Dear Galbeedi, Thanks for your very well made summary. You are right on all aspects, let me add another perspective which I believe would help to undertand bigger picture.

 

As you know, Ethiopia had a phenomenal leader: Haile Selassie. This visionary man was obessed with education on young generations, economic development and African Unity. If Somalia is protected by African Forces, which I believe should be praised by all, it because of the wisdom on this man. He founded AU and started a totally new concept of "peaceful conflict resolution" in whole Africa. So lets remember what has happened afterwards. Russians killed this man by manipulating the very same young generation that is educated by personal effords of him. Somalia and Ethiopia went into war by Russian push on either side. Result: 1000 year old civilizations had famines, weakened economies, disasters. over million people died both in Ethiopia and Somalia. Million people, I emphasize. Million. People perceives this as just another statistics sadly. One million people died of starvation on 20th Century.

 

After world developments, weakening of Soviet/Russian block, decreased interest of US in Africa in general etc. Now there is new game on play. Russia (which I believe have no face to show up especially in East Africa), China, EU wants to be new power houses. Countries like Turkiye, Brazil, Japan also rising regional power houses. So on the bigger picture, region (Somalia in particular) will be prone to push-and-pull s of these struggle. One should be very careful on one aspect: In this undeclared war, these powers dwell on fault lines which I described on my post (tribalism, past conflict of Ethiopia-Somali, rural/urban divide etc etc).

 

In this century, and at this point of civilization, conflict-confrontation-war is totally unacceptable. Also, old colonialistic-imperialistic practices are way overdue. I believe Somalia (and in broader sense Africa) has enough intellectual capacity to understand these and act accordingly.

 

In this international environment, every country have to have friends. As we say, "dost ve kardes" meaning friend and brother countries. Later I will write something to decribe this concept. Somalia is considered like Pakistan, Korea or Bosnia in Turkiye, as brother. And as a brother in need, Somalia will receive everything we have. This is not motivated by resources, money, etc etc. It is motivated by our undertsnading of Islam and solidarity.

 

I know I write too much. But I should say something about Turkish approach. As you know Westerners never share military technology with others. Turkiye didnt receive any from US or EU, they just see you customers on their product. Turkiye decide yo act upon it and now we create our own technologies on military. We share this technolgy with other unlike Westerners. Jordan and Kazakhstan asked our support on military electronics for example. Our government did't say to them "no just get the finished product", instead our companies go over these countries, set up factories, educate engineers and start production on these friendly countries. I specifically mentioned this to describe the difference of Turkiye with others. I guess this would calm some propaganda-driven friends :)

 

 

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Somalia welcomes Our Turkish Brothers,Hope Turkey can Provide Help where it Can.we Just need Somalia to be self-feeding Country By 2030 First Security,Somalia should Secure Its Borders inside and Protect their Citizens From threats and Our Territorial Waters,Investment in Agriculture,Fisheries,Inviromental protection,Tourism Sector and power Generation sector.we Can Use turkey Know-How in This Regard AND in Return Turkey Can always Rely on Somalia as an ally

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galbeedi   

Caano__Geel do not just throw garbage here unless you hate Somalia being rescued by Turks in time of need. That was clear like sky for very one to see.

 

Xabad, your idea of self reliance and do it your self sprit is forward thinking. Lee of Singapore transformed that city state. In order for Somalia to be self reliant , we must stand up with our legs first.

 

We must reduce the fragmentation and the helplessness we all feel most of times. To achieve basic things, we need partners. As you said, nations look after their primary interest, and we should be also willing to give something back to those who benefit us.

 

A lot could be said on the character of Erdogan. He should not be jailing or muzzling journalist or those who criticise him. He must show maturity. On the other hand, the internal dynamics of Turkeys judiciary and army generals are not settled well. Few years ago, There were large number of Army generals who were trying to overthrow the elected government, so being paranoid is expected. Overall, Erdogans tenure as a prime minister was one of the most democratic era of Turkey's history. For the last ten years, the Turkish economy performed better than most of Europe. Look at their Greek neighbor who were subsidised by EU for twenty years go bankrupt.

 

On the issues of the big presidential palace that Erdogan built, I should say, it comes with territory. Look at the French and their champ Elysees and other huge presidential palaces, or the huge Russian Kremlin which takes blocks of city buildings. Turkey with soon to be 80 million people, should act and behave as a great power, thus it needs big palaces. I hope Erdogan retires after his term finishes and pass the torch to new generation of Turkish leaders.

 

Personally , I rather ally my self with Japan, USA and Turkey than Chinese or despotic Russians. Bosmanoglu, I agree, we do not want any more wars with our neighbors. Somalia needs 30 years of peace within it self and it's neighbors.

 

 

 

 

 

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xabad   

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said:</cite>

 

A lot could be said on the character of Erdogan. He should not be jailing or muzzling journalist or those who criticise him. He must show maturity. On the other hand, the internal dynamics of Turkeys judiciary and army generals are not settled well. Few years ago, There were large number of Army generals who were trying to overthrow the elected government, so being paranoid is expected. Overall, Erdogans tenure as a prime minister was one of the most democratic era of Turkey's history. For the last ten years, the Turkish economy performed better than most of Europe. Look at their Greek neighbor who were subsidised by EU for twenty years go bankrupt.

 

Remember even Putin's first few terms as president were relatively free and democratic, look what Erdogan has done since he's settled down to power, extremely repressive, he is brutalizing the Kurds so that he can turn the presidency into an executive office, locks up people for mocking him like tinpot dictators do. How is that democracy? can Cameron lock up someone for likening them to Gollum from the lords of rings, he is also extremely vulgar mouthed, calling one protester "Israel sperm".

The most serious offence was his support for Daacish in syria in an effort to topple Assad and deny Syrian Kurds political gain.

Even their economy is floundering now, because he has destabilized the country, scared away tourists, picked needless fights with his neighbors and went on spending binge. I can go on. He has Turkey in a perilous state, civil war is currently ongoing in the south east not much different from Syria and Iraq which might spread, eventual break up of the country is a real possibility if he continues his foolishness.

 

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said:</cite>

On the issues of the big presidential palace that Erdogan built, I should say, it comes with territory. Look at the French and their champ Elysees and other huge presidential palaces, or the huge Russian Kremlin which takes blocks of city buildings. Turkey with soon to be 80 million people, should act and behave as a great power, thus it needs big palaces. I hope Erdogan retires after his term finishes and pass the torch to new generation of Turkish leaders.

 

Are you serious Galbeedi ? its seems you subscribe to the big man theory so beloved of Africans, and here I thought that western sensibilities have rubbed on to you when you railed against grand houses for ministries in the motherland. Have you seen 10 downing street ? The chancellery of Germany? or the other residences for heads of state of developed countries. They are small functionary offices, grand palaces are medieval concepts.

 

Champ Elysee was built long time ago in the 18th century, so was the Kremlin, completed in 1495. Moreover, a state's power should not be denoted by ostentatious palaces anyway, face palm. The manner in which he built his palace is also problematic, it was illegal, he basically rode roughshod over their laws, cut down trees and spent an exorbitant sum of money out of state coffers. Aksaray palace's maintenance consumes all the taxes collected from the town of Aksaray, i.e a whole town works to support this presidential palace.

He challenges opponents to come knock it down if they have power, when they question him. That is hallmark of a dictator.

 

 

 

 

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