The fiction and the reality in Somalia/land-rants from Ghaddafi

[Khadafi]

Our brother Libax-Sanka-Taabke showed us a glamours new shopping mall in Hargeisa,in all honesty that shopping mall was extravagant and a delightful view for the sight. Hey! Who wants to see children with popping bellies due malnutrition. The same is with Mogadishu, where the super-rich buy cheap lands and then turn it to the typical somali show off building "I'am rich and I own a horel/restaurant". Retail can never be productive as it only makes the mega-rich richer and poor, poorer. Glowing pictures of buildings does not and will not show the truth that Somaliland/Somalia are in a deep coma. Many would dis-agree with me, but think about these following points:

 

a) Weather Somaliland/Somalia has functioning government regimes are for the political analysts. I am not here to turn this thread into a political tit-for-tat arguements but facts will wither down the fiction. Since 1991 all of the infrastructure that Somalia/Somaliland uses, the roads, the ports were build a solid government that relied upon self-reliance, love it or not, the regime of awweyne greatlt consolidated his efforts to the infrastructure even if mostly of it went to the open yaxaasyo of the regime. 95% of all the current transport roads that puntland/somaliland or other lands use the that infrastructure, built by 1969-1991. Even those hailing from the north, the elite were ministers and benefited. (Note, this is not a thread to defend a dictatorship and a military regime)

 

A great example is that a nation of Somalia, with its many waterfalls does not have a single power station to bring electricity to its population. If those mega-rich-capitalists were interested in the welfare of their respective state weather they are in Mogadishu or in Hargeysa why have we not seen the pay tax?, will we Soomalis be forced to buy electricty from Ethiopians mega-power fall. Geo-politically that would not be a wise decision.

 

b) Free education, what happend it? The former regime with it's socialist fabric (even tough with it's enormous corruption) offered free education to it's population, weather you were jileec or the opposite. Pre-Universaty schools were sent to the roaming nomads to make the literate, Can we today the education in Somaliland/Somalia/Jubaland, are free, are those un-recognized amharic in scripted universities.( for the amharic inscripted somali universaty in Somali please read the following article. target="_blank">http://www.wardheernews.com/disappointed-sad-tale

 

To make the rant more personal one of my most vivid memories that I made to mogadishu a couple of years ago was seeing the state of a mine relatives neighbor. The neighbor had 3 six grown sons and made living on a small "somali style tobaako shop". He reluctantly invited me to a dinner, I turned it down fearing the traditional shaxaat but my relative told me that the man you feared who had saxaad you was actually had a master degree in agriculture.

 

He was not one of those you would expect shaxaat from. I made it to the dinner and met him and his delightfull wife. He was a chatty happy man, after the traditional salams and courtesy my curiosity overcame me. I asked him about the current state of agriculture and to my suprise he snubbed at me and said that "why do you ask me when FGM-seeds" are imported in this god-for saken land. He told me about the desertification and the destruction that the chark-coal industry had on Somalia.

 

The chatty happy mans face turned into anger. He then said why dont you link me one of those ngo's who work with these stuff. I suddenly changed the topic when I understood that this man was not the usal "I am 40 + therefore I am a DITOORE. We have full of them in Somalia, people who in the 1980 used to engage in crime have now strange looking XXL costumes and are adment to be called "Ditoore".

 

The chatty agronomist told me that he had 3 sons and only 1 was studying in Mogadishu University. He even said the standard of education is not what we had (I suppose he meant his kacaan generation) but that was the best he could do. I asked about the 2 other sons, with mumbling tone he said they were buisness men working in the local "tabakaayada". Arrogant as I am, I blame it on my swedish side of culture, I asked why do you not give education to the other kids. My relative interrupted the conversation and steered into politics, anyways it was a a delightful night!.

 

After we left, my relative rudely told me "It is not from our culture ask those questions". Do you know how much it costs to take a child to school/universaty? I said probably something. He answered thousands of dollars. This man who had 3 sons could not afford to take all of his children to school, so he choose one. Reflecting on that I can only imagine how the 2 working brother feel.

 

In summary, as the president of Puntland said in a speech I listened here on SOL, I could only agree with him one thing. He said "Since the 55 years since we took our freedom, it's ironic and astonishing that troops from sierre-leione is coming to our rescue".

 

Let us save us the fiction, one glamorous super-mall will certainly not benefit, the roaming nomad, who has no political education who he is (nationally/etthnically ) and how the dynamics of clanism is the opposite to the countries of Tahriib he desperately wants to live in.

 

I'am not a communist, but the rich-in Somalia/Somaliland are getting richer while the poor and getting poorer. This will have a destructive impact.

 

 

 

 

 

[Miyir]

Somaliland/Somalia? what happened just Somalia? here your to give us lecture and what went wrong?

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@Miyir

said:</cite>

Somaliland/Somalia? what happened just Somalia? here your to give us lecture and what went wrong?

He is not talking about "just Somalia" but Somalia and its neighbour- Somaliland.

[Tallaabo]

Mr Khadafi, here are some corrections to your above mentioned statements:

1. The kacaan government of Siyaad Barre did not build any of the infrastructure in Somaliland. All the airports, ports, hospitals, roads, etc which pre-date the second coming of the Republic of Somaliland were build by the British, Soviet Union, China, the USA, and other countries with vested interests in the region.

2. Although many school age children do not yet have the right to free education in Somaliland, all the public primary schools are free.

3. A growing retail sector in a society indicates a growing economy which is good news for the poor.

 

[Khadafi]

Tallaabo, As I said, I am not intrested in tat for tat. Weather Somaali-land or hebeloo Land thats for a thing for the politcal analysts, but you raised some important issues.

 

1-The Kacaan government, if I am not mistaken, Silaanyo was a minister under did it. That government engagd in huge infrastructural projects, and they did this of course with the aid/technical support from the Warsaw-pact. That was the geo-political fact that no one can deny. The current geo-political situation is that USA/West is firmly behind the huge mega-dam construction in Ethiopia. The building is of course is not done by illiterate oromo-farmers but technicians from the west/China. Tallaabo, try to think out of the box.

 

But the important question that I raised was since these 22 or something years of civil wars Have you seen a solid somali government/somaliland/puntland, hebelooland undergoing those developments and please do not take as a example of dirt road opening by now-body minister. I was even chocked to see government minister attending the opening a luxurious mall as if it is "true development" Who will buy those luxurious items? I might be mistaken, correct please, I am not expect in Somalilands energy consumption but I do belive that they as all somalis use expensive generators. Not a singe power-station exists.

 

The truth is, weather it is Silaanyo, or Qoslaayo, or Abdi-Wali, They attend a monthly meeting hosted by tigray puppet wolde-mariam.

 

I love to infuse personal stories and experiences into my posts, A friend of mine, a staunch mudug style man (il-jeex) went to mudug. I as a Banaadiri love the guy, we have huge cultural gap between us and that makes our friendship more fun. He visited mudug close to the border areas of Ethiopia with help of a local NGO-group. He came back from Africa two days ago and I picked him up from the airport and we chatted. He told me frankly that he was disgusted by what he saw. He said: "when I as 12 year old boy and grew up in those areas, we would cross the border, their were no "ethiopian"influence.

 

He said 30 years later when I returned to the same area an incident happened. By ignorance an Iljeex- was killed Afweynes people living on the other side of the brorder. The Iljeec contacted Ethiopian authorities in Guri-ceel and some twelve men, innocent or not were rounded up. I dont feel pity for them, But my friend was utterly disguisted In his words he said: "What happend, how can ethiopians (mainly somali paid troops with a tigayran offical) have such an enormous influence in a Somali town. I jokingly said, saaxib, what did you expect when your own president is protected by African troops.

 

2. Talaabo, once again, no tit-for-that arguement, saaxibkaay, see and ponder about what you wrote. The burst of defending your clan-enclave comes to existence when you make this contradictory statement:

 

Although many school age children do not yet have the right to free education in Somaliland

,

all the public primary schools are free.

 

A great man once said: If you want to solve a problem, you need to see the problem. 22 years has gone, Instead of criticizing your own leaders, Somaliland/Puntland/Somalia or what ever you immediately puff and buff with clan bursts when I only highlighted the condition of the poor. Weather they are in Hargeysaa or in Mogadishu.!

 

Talaabo while your comfortably sitting in Europe go and tell the shoe-shiner boy in Hargeysaa why he can not afford free education in his town but that he could have done so under the Kacaan government. I am not nostalgic for a brutal military regime that at the end drove us to this viscous civil war but facts always withers downs fiction.

 

Have lost people who think out of the box?

[DoctorKenney]

We've been at war for 23 years. There's no concept of "nationhood" that exists amongst the Somalis. Whatever nationalism we might have had, was eroded by the destructive and divisive policies of Siyad Barre. Do you REALLY expect any social progress to occur in our country, when we still have clan militias roaming the highways and the constant threat of inter-clan warfare?

 

Somalia was always poor. I always hear stories of nostalgic 50 year old Somalis talking about how great Somalia was back in the 1970's and 1980's. But anyone who's honest enough, would admit that sure, Somalia was great and amazing for a select few people. Those who had money or those who had connections to the Government lived a great life.

 

But the vast majority of our people were always poor. The public schools weren't up to par. Malnutrition was rampant. It wasn't a golden age at all. And all of the progress, was accomplished not due to Siyad Barre, but by the Chinese or the Soviets or the Europeans or the Americans. We took foreign aid. I mean, there's nothing glamorous about that period at all. I remember reading National Geographic articles from 1982, talking about the plight of Somalia's poor. People were starving to death even then!! And that's when we had a government! So what's to be so nostalgic about!?!?

 

I know, people are gonna come up to me and say, "Well you can't expect it to be perfect"....I know. I get it. But I can look at a country such as Chile or Malaysia and see a lot of problems. But those countries are improving dramatically, day-by-day. And both those countries were ruled by Dictators, so Siyad Barre had no excuse for leaving Somalia in such a terrible condition. It was even easier to establish state institutions and grow the economy, since we had a small population of like 4 million people back in 1975, living in a large country with tons of resources.

[DoctorKenney]

And yes I agree, the people of Hargeisa shouldn't be celebrating over the construction of a mere shopping mall. But there's nothing wrong with retail as long as there's an active Consumer market and that Somalia has the exports necessary to pay for it's imports. We need to establish an export market in our country. THAT is how you create a Middle Class. Somalia can establish agriculture, fishing, resource extraction, and small-scale manufacturing. That would be more than enough to create a consumer market for our lightly-populated country.

 

P.S. If Somalia establishes a functioning State. An actual functioning State. Then all of this talk about Corrupt Businessmen would mean nothing. Because now we'll have thousands of Somali entrepreneurs and foreign investors, creating corporations and building businesses. And they will force these incompetent businessmen out of business through competition and free-markets. Government programs/regulations is NOT the answer. We Somalis prefer free-markets over Government control of the economy. We tried Marxism in the 1970's and 1980's and it was an absolute disaster.

 

These corrupt businessmen KNOW that they wouldn't be able to survive in a peaceful, functioning Somalia. They benefit off this Civil War. And once the country is stabilized inshaAllah, these businessmen are done. They're finished.

[Miyir]

<cite>

@Tallaabo

said:</cite>

He is not talking about "just Somalia" but Somalia and its neighbour- Somaliland.

 

my mistake missed the fiction part, carry on

[galbeedi]

l.

 

Khadafi, the expectations of our generation is law. Although the military government has done a lot in terms of education, military strength , culture and social issue, that era could be probably considered the age of innocence. People gave the ruling class every support they demanded, during peace and war.

 

In early and middle seventies progress was heavy and quick, but do not forget the civilian government of the sixties put down the foundations of the most of government initiatives. THe Kacaan had a lot of good will from the people. As soon as they took over there was euphoria and support for a change. They rode that support long enough to achieve some meaningful gains, but eventually, they not only abused the trust, but also , destroyed the system from within. By early 1982, greed, corruption, nepotism and others were gaining momentum.

 

I remember in 1983 when I went to Halane training school, there wasn't any organizational structure in the school to train and teach those high school graduates. There wasn't even a military uniform to fit our sizes. We were told to go inside a room full of old uniforms wore by former cadets. We went inside and sifted through few pants until you find one that fits you. An organized state would have atleast made a uniform for it's cadets. Unqualified people were populating government ministries. The Somali shilling was declining , inflation was rampant. From 1981- 1988, Somalia received $2.billion dollars of debt and aid from the outside world. Most of that money went down the drain.

 

Having said that the biggest difference between today's generation and the one between 1960- 1980, was, the expectation was greeter. While there were poverty and meagre resources, they grew up like first class citizen of a nation rising. They were self confident with their culture and way of life. They didn't fear no one, including their neighbors, in fact Somalis of that era were feared by their neighbors. They were sending officers to Africa to train liberation movements. Few years ago I was talking to a co-worker who was from Zimbabwe. He probably wasn't familiar with Somalis and their background. As we chatted, one day, he came to me and said, " Are you guys in some kind of exile like us which kept kept you guys from going back home, or how long this war is going on?. Well It was difficult to explain that we went through the overthrow the dictatorship, the collapse of the state, the Warlords, the Maxakamad, Al-shabaab and so on. The one thing I told him was that ," we may look to him as disorganized refugees who are scattered all over the place, but, in the seventies, we were those who liberated you from the White Rhodesian colonialism of Ian Smith, I sang the famous liberation song that we even composed for their sake.

 

http://www.heesta.com/hesogs/midab%20gumeysi%20diida%20by%20wadani1672.mp3

 

Ian Smith Ma muuqdeen, Rodisia ma ma maageen hadan midig la siinin

Bortaqiis ma miidheen mana uu malaysteen Mozambique Angoola

midiyihi qarsoonaa, Gini lagu miraayey

south Africa ma mamoogin,

Africay ismaqalo midam gumaysi diida.

 

Traditionally Somalis and Africans in general do not build things. They think government means ministries and militaries and propaganda. Go figure how many hospitals , roads or water wells has Somaliland built for the last twenty years. Most of money is spent to look good and mislead.

 

even in Somalia of seventies and eighties everything was built by others . stadio mogadishu, the national theatre, the universities some of the schools and all roads were built by others.

 

How about the current government. THey put sophas in the palace, but didn't build one clinic or dag a water well any where. All the money will go to travels , hotels and crooks. While security and military is important, why not at least allocate few dollars for the poor. Khadaafi you right all we see is high rising buildings in Mogadishu. Probably on stolen money.

 

Finally, the big difference was " waxaa lagu qanacsanaa dalka iyo waxa yaalla". People were told to be proud although they may have had nothing.

 

[burahadeer]

I don't wanna be political but have the urge to enlighten you.

many roads are built in Somaliland last 3yrs,the longest,392km between Burao and Erigavo underway,universities built in every major town,some cities could have more than five,electricity run and owned by local firms and most distant villages have power for the first time,many small industries mostly beverages and distilled water but also furniture,mattresses etc.Small businesses mushrooming,actually much much better than eva before.......to remind you that only one technical school in Burao built by Germans in 1964 was the only thing built in Somaliland between 1960 and 1991.And this school was made possible by the Somali ambassador in Germany at the time who was from Burao.

There is absolutely nothing done by Siyad Barre or the ones before him ,nil,nada,except misery. SO YOU CAN SEE GREAT PROGRESS NOW without the billions Siyaad had from donor countries.

Yes there r many poor people but live goes on as long as there is peace.

[galbeedi]

Buuraha, I agree. Nothing was done Togdheer, Awdal and many other places. In Somaliland everything is built by the people. I admire the willingness and the patriotism of the private sector and the people to develop. I know there few resources, but I believe they could do better in terms of government building things. It is all about the will to move things.

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@galbeedi

said:</cite>

Buuraha, I agree. Nothing was done Togdheer, Awdal and many other places. In Somaliland everything is built by the people. I admire the willingness and the patriotism of the private sector and the people to develop. I know there few resources, but I believe they could do better in terms of government building things. It is all about the will to move things.

 

We Somalis have always progressed without the help of government. All the progress you see in Somaliland today is done by private individuals and private corporations. Not by their useless government. It comes from the people. The same can be said for the progress in Puntland and South Somalia.

 

I hope in the future, government influence over the Somali economy is minimized, so that the private individuals have more of an ability to shape the events in their own country. Instead of relying on government schools we can build private schools. Instead of waiting for the government to build a stadium we can use private funds to build it. Even privatized ports are more efficient than government-run ports.

[Khadafi]

<cite>

@galbeedi

said:</cite>

l.

 

Khadafi, the expectations of our generation is law. Although the military government has done a lot in terms of education, military strength , culture and social issue, that era could be probably considered the age of innocence. People gave the ruling class every support they demanded, during peace and war.

 

In early and middle seventies progress was heavy and quick, but do not forget the civilian government of the sixties put down the foundations of the most of government initiatives. THe Kacaan had a lot of good will from the people. As soon as they took over there was euphoria and support for a change. They rode that support long enough to achieve some meaningful gains, but eventually, they not only abused the trust, but also , destroyed the system from within. By early 1982, greed, corruption, nepotism and others were gaining momentum.

 

I remember in 1983 when I went to Halane training school, there wasn't any organizational structure in the school to train and teach those high school graduates. There wasn't even a military uniform to fit our sizes. We were told to go inside a room full of old uniforms wore by former cadets. We went inside and sifted through few pants until you find one that fits you. An organized state would have atleast made a uniform for it's cadets. Unqualified people were populating government ministries. The Somali shilling was declining , inflation was rampant. From 1981- 1988, Somalia received $2.billion dollars of debt and aid from the outside world. Most of that money went down the drain.

 

Having said that the biggest difference between today's generation and the one between 1960- 1980, was, the expectation was greeter. While there were poverty and meagre resources, they grew up like first class citizen of a nation rising. They were self confident with their culture and way of life. They didn't fear no one, including their neighbors, in fact Somalis of that era were feared by their neighbors. They were sending officers to Africa to train liberation movements. Few years ago I was talking to a co-worker who was from Zimbabwe. He probably wasn't familiar with Somalis and their background. As we chatted, one day, he came to me and said, " Are you guys in some kind of exile like us which kept kept you guys from going back home, or how long this war is going on?. Well It was difficult to explain that we went through the overthrow the dictatorship, the collapse of the state, the Warlords, the Maxakamad, Al-shabaab and so on. The one thing I told him was that ," we may look to him as disorganized refugees who are scattered all over the place, but, in the seventies, we were those who liberated you from the White Rhodesian colonialism of Ian Smith, I sang the famous liberation song that we even composed for their sake.

 

http://www.heesta.com/hesogs/midab%20gumeysi%20diida%20by%20wadani1672.mp3

 

Ian Smith Ma muuqdeen, Rodisia ma ma maageen hadan midig la siinin

Bortaqiis ma miidheen mana uu malaysteen Mozambique Angoola

midiyihi qarsoonaa, Gini lagu miraayey

south Africa ma mamoogin,

Africay ismaqalo midam gumaysi diida.

 

Traditionally Somalis and Africans in general do not build things. They think government means ministries and militaries and propaganda. Go figure how many hospitals , roads or water wells has Somaliland built for the last twenty years. Most of money is spent to look good and mislead.

 

even in Somalia of seventies and eighties everything was built by others . stadio mogadishu, the national theatre, the universities some of the schools and all roads were built by others.

 

How about the current government. THey put sophas in the palace, but didn't build one clinic or dag a water well any where. All the money will go to travels , hotels and crooks. While security and military is important, why not at least allocate few dollars for the poor. Khadaafi you right all we see is high rising buildings in Mogadishu. Probably on stolen money.

 

Finally, the big difference was " waxaa lagu qanacsanaa dalka iyo waxa yaalla". People were told to be proud although they may have had nothing.

 

You could have not said it better +1. It was not a golden age. I dislike nostalgism, it does not benefit anyone looking back. We should instead look forward and compare ourselves as DoctorKenney said with nations like Malaysia and Chile but sometimes we need a small dose medicine against the mass-psychosis that we are suffering from. Realism and hope is a recipe for success while denial and blatant fiction is failure.

 

What I am saying is with all honesty is that for the 20+ years that we had Somaliland/Puntaland/Southern Somalia and the list goes on on, the newborn controversial baby Jubbaland. The basic infrastructure, the roads, the hospitals, the airports etc were all built by afweynes government. Doctorkenney was quick to point out that China and the eastern block gave us hand, yes thats true but what about those thousands of students that were sent to the bush to teach the nomads to read?. What about free general education? What about the campaigns against the desertfication of Somalia? Doctorkenney, No one is saying that it was golden age but for a nation to reach literacy rate of 80% in a few years and to introduce a new alphabet and implement it is a huge success, the foregin embassies were functioning and we were a nation among other fee the nations with functioning embassies.

 

All of these campaigns were waged under a deep self-confident nation that had a conscious of a nation. Thousands of students were sent abroad and one of those who benefited is Ditoresa Hawa Abdi, a mother and a gyncologist. Thousands of Somali women benefited from her education.

Galbeedi, I am deeply sorry, I guess you were one of those generations that were ready to serve the nation but only found chaos at the end of your maturity.

 

 

DoctorKennney, How can a nation gain wealth while the basic necessities of life does not exist. No free education or general health campaign or even basic guidelines. No electricity.

Let's face it. With Sierre-Leione and Uganda coming to our rescue were are the bottom of a list that we only are in. Ethiopia, a poor nation, with 80 millions mouths to feed has government with guidelines and are today building a major power plant. The political economical guidelines are their. The Capital flowing in from Somalia made it before to Nayroobi and not to Somalia.

 

Your dreaming when your saying that "private funds" are much better then government ones? The basic guide-lines of a state economy is that efficancy is gainted when state-government built schools/docks etc are their to compete with private ones?. But your speaking as if Somalia is country that has these basic institutions that can compete with your fictional "private funds/schools". What schools are these when 80% of the somali population does not have financial means to go to school and 70% of them is suffering from malnutrition. Your equation work if a state with functioning institutions were in place, or do you expect the millionaire dollar that got rich from chark-coal dealer to open schools? Yaab! Go and buy a ticket to Somalia and see the reality. Wallahi you will be shocked.

 

In conclusion fiction and big sophas will not change the reality on the ground. Once the Al-shabaab are finished, then what? Federalism based upon clan-states that never had borders before? We saw the pre-movie of is-qabsiga in Kismaayu and that movie has not ended.

[DoctorKenney]

Khadafi, you misread my post saaxib. I'm not against Government-funded education. The Government SHOULD pay for education, obviously. Many of the poorest people in Somalia won't be able to afford their own education without government funding it.

 

I'm just against the government PROVIDING education. Which is a very big difference.

 

We can easily introduce "school-vouchers", where each family is given a "voucher" of a couple thousand dollars or so, and they can use those funds to enroll their children in any private school they choose.

 

It's kinda like the food-stamp program we have here in the United States. The Government gives "food stamps" to low-income people....and then they use those "food stamps" to go to their local grocery store and buy whatever food they choose. Public funding, private choice. It's an ingenious combination

 

Therefore this creates competition between the schools, because each school wants higher funding and higher enrollment. Therefore each school will be forced to hire the best teachers, have the lowest amount of students per classroom, and this would improve quality.

 

You drive a Toyota or a Chrysler or a Volkswagon, am I correct? Aren't these cars created by private companies? Would you trust yourself to purchase a car built by the Government? And if not, why would you trust your children to be educated by the Government, when we know that there's no incentive nor any sort of competition with government schools? At least if private companies provide education, there would be competition, just like what exists today in Louisiana.

 

That's all I was saying.