Is secession justified with the existence of a stable and peaceful south?

[xiinfaniin]

^^NGONGE arrinta caqiida u daa

 

Showqi caqli aadan buuq ku furin karin buu ku asqaysiiyey

[Showqi]

NGONGE;828086 wrote:

Showqi, had you said Khaatumo, I would have agreed with you but there is nothing to show discontent in Awdal other than

a couple of parties in your home city

, saaxib. Naga daa dee, if people were against SL nobody in the world could stop them. Mise Buur Madow ayaa ka wada gaysiisan?

Naga daaya dee.

Lol@a couple of parties in my home city. Ngonge mar hadaad tidhi Naga daaya dee. Aniguna halkaas ayaan kaga hadhay saaxib.......

 

Thanks Xiin

[Che -Guevara]

Somalia is in disadvantaged position if negotiations were start with its northern secessionists. The best option is to empower friendly northern tribes and use them as on obstacle to Hargeysa's ambitions till such time things are favorable to Somali proper.

[xiinfaniin]

Che, that has already started, and it is indeed the political genius that was Taleex Conference that tipped the balance. Just like Showqi put it, the question now is who are Somalilanders? The irony is Somaliland complained about the inclusion of Ilkajir and Daud from Puntland on the basis that they do not represent anyone and their regions supposedly fall within the jurisdiction of Somaliland. Yet Somaliland admin had the audacity to appoint Haabsade and Cadami as a committee members . The argument that TFG should represent all other regions is a weak argument as TFG is a political arrangement based on 4.5 formula which includes Somaliland clans. The Minister of Defense whom xaaji xunjuf of SOL publicizes is a case in point. That he may not be able to visit his home town is neither here nor there. Same could be said about the Ministerial positions Siilaanyo dolled out for political opportunists like Xaabsade and Cadami...

 

Things have indeed changed, and there are new dynamics in favor of Somalia

[Carafaat]

Xiin, xaabsade does visit Lascasnood and Cadami does visit Erigavo. Minister of Defense hometown is somewhere in Shabelle.

 

Taking this to a clan matter only complicates things and makes clan unionist look quite desperate.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Xiinfaniin this is Gacmay in Dhahar eastern sanaag just a few months ago caleemo qoyan as u see it:D

 

 

 

 

He can represent his people when it comes to talks between Somalia and Somaliland.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Adeerayaal, reality is much different than your hallucinations allow your eyes to see.

[burahadeer]

infact reality is much different & that the only way you can stop SL is by force,til then keep talking .All these SSC & the likes don't even constitute 1% of the population.Ask what has stalled your gun trotting ragtag army?

[Liibaan]

SOMALIA REPORT - May 08, 2012

 

Interview : Prof Ali Khalif Galaydh, Former Prime Minister of Somalia about The current political status of KHatumo State And Somalia

 

http://www.boocameonline.com/2012/05/08/prof-ali-khalif-galayr-former-prime-minister-of-somalia-about-the-current-political-status-of-somaliland-puntland-khatumo/

 

 

 

The conflict that arose in the Sool, Sanaag, and Eyn (Cayn) led the SSC clan to establish its own State - KHaatumo State Of SOmalia, independent from Somaliland and part of the Federal Government of Somalia.

 

Former prime minister of Somalia and retired Professor Ali Khalif Galeydh, a member of KHaatumo Supreme Council- G10, is elder and advocate for KHatumo State Of SOmalia.

 

Somalia Report’s Muhyadin Ahmed Roble met with Prof. Galeydh in Nairobi to interview him about KHaatumo State’s plans, As well, its conflict with Somaliland.

 

Since the formation of Khatumo, there has been armed violence with Somaliland in SSC regions; is there any process of engaging talks between Khatumo and Somaliland?

 

There are a number of people who tried to talk to Somaliland and us, some of them governments and as I said earlier, the Ethiopian government has really tried very hard to bring us together. Ethiopia invited Somaliland President Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud to come Addis Ababa and to sit down with us, and see if we can sort out things. Unfortunately, the president declined the invitation, and his justification was that he was planning to attend London meeting last February, and only after he attends that meeting will he have position on whether to sit down with Khatuma or not.

 

I heard other governments, European and North America, who also attempt to convince him in talks. There are also Somalis, some of them from that part of Somalia (Somaliland), others from other parts of the country who have genuinely try to use their own networks and talk to the president but to this day he has not accepted the invitation either for Mediation or for direct talks with KHaatumo State Of SOmalia.

 

So, in your view, what has made Somaliland refuse to engage talks with Khatumo?

 

I think there are two main issues. The first one is public opinion in Somaliland because the people for the last twenty some years have been bombarded with the idea that we are going to be a separate state, that we are very close to being recognized, but there is still the old sentiment that we remain part of Somalia. So, I think there is fear or at least apprehension on the part of the administration or members of the administration are that public opinion is against our state being granted autonomy. I don’t share that sentiment, of course, but I think that there is a place for leadership and that is Somaliland and the whole of Somalia are in serious historic moment – one that will require leadership. I find Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud, president of Somaliland, to be a highly intelligent, experienced fellow and I think there is a desperate need for somebody like him to take the lead and to make sure to address the real roots of conflicts among clans in Somaliland as well as misunderstanding among Somaliland and Somalia.

 

The second issue is that it seems to me that the moment is just not right at the moment. There are no serious partners in Mogadishu and therefore I think that is outright miscalculation to believe the time is right for talks. There is no way under the presence circumstances, including the occupation of Las Anod, the very large number of troops which are lined up close to Buhoodle, that I don’t think that the Khatumo state will go back to fault if there were such fault before. I think it is the expectation or at least the idea that President Mohamoud will be able to win over some traditional elders or other important personalities in Khatumo state, which, in my opinion, is highly, highly unlikely. The traditional elders, of whom there are thirteen, and the members of the administration of Khatumo have the full confidence of the Sool, Sanaag and Eyn people, and I don’t think one of them would dare betray this united front of the people of our state.

 

If public opinion of Somaliland/snm Clan is against the KHaatumo State Of SOmalia, What can Somaliland politicians do?

 

Somaliland leadership has a very strong influence in terms of molding public opinion and I think public opinion in Somaliland, especially among the Somaliland/snm clan, has been evolving. I feel public opinion, on the one hand, puts pressure on leaders to make sure that their stated positions are maintained, but at same time the leaders have the responsibility to try and change public opinion at critical times such as this.

 

After twenty-one years or so no government has recognized Somaliland, nor do I think this will happen simply because the Somaliland/snm clan is a small ethnic group in broader Somali picture. I don’t think public opinion in Africa or in the neighboring areas are supportive of secession, which is why Somaliland has not been recognized. I doubt very much it will be recognized unless there was unanimity among the five ethnic groups or clans in Somaliland, which is not currently the situation. Four of the other major clans of North Somalia Clans are opposed, either openly or covertly, against secession. There are individuals from the Zeylac Clan, the Awdal Clan, the Maakhir Clan, and the SSC Clan who hold administrative positions but that do not accurately represent the public opinion in Borama or in Seylac, or Las Anod, Taleex, Buhoodle, Erigabo, Dhahar, Badhan, or Las Qoray.

 

So, the idea of secession is held by only one of five ethnic groups, which seriously undermines the idea of secession. Yes, they deserve the claim. They did not have a fair share in terms of political positions, development, nor the exploitation of natural resources being utilized in Somaliland. Nonetheless, I don’t think the neighboring countries or the whole of Africa, nor the UN or IGAD will approve secession, which why is I don’t think Somaliland is going to be recognized. The Somaliland administration is also weakening their own positions tremendously by being aggressive and trying by force to claim that Sool, Sanaag and Eyn is their territory, which groups like the UN do not view as a productive method of gaining support for secession and recognition.

 

Somaliland/snm clan had experienced from somali government in the past. Isn’t that enough justification to stand independently?

 

It was a brutal administration. I was part of that administration until 1982. I saw what was happening and I imagined what was just appearing in the horizon and that why I parted company with that administration. Yes, people of Somaliland have every right to complain about the atrocities that took place. My view is even before those things happened, in late 1980’s; they were people from Somaliland who were part of that very administration until the last days. They were prime ministers, they were ministers in cabinets, they were senior military officers, police force, civil servants, diplomatic core, etc. Therefore, the idea that the people of Somaliland were targeted as one large ethnic group, however, is largely incorrect and inaccurate and it is perhaps not the best idea to raise those claims as being justification for the secession of the entire Somaliland region. The important thing today is: what Somaliland is doing right now to the people of Sool, Sanaag and Eyn.

[Liibaan]

What is being done in the City of Las Anod and KHaatumo/SSC Region?

 

In Las Anod, school children who demonstrated and threw stones against the Somaliland/snm whatever you know them were laid down, shot, and killed.There are also a large number of young primary school students who are in Somaliland jails. This is not secret and something everyone knows. It is something Somaliland itself knows. They were simply killed and arrested because of their demonstration against the military occupation, because they say we don’t want that Somaliland/snm militia to occupy Las Anod against our will or to forcibly occupy the water wells of Hagoogane, Karshaale, Miigaagle and Soo Joogte. These wells are the lifeline of Somali nomads, a pastoral people who has been using these wells traditionally for hundreds of years. Today, Somaliland forces now are occupying those wells.

 

So, Somaliland is exactly doing what they are accusing that Siad Barre has done to them, and in fact are using the same tactics of the Siad Barre regime against the poor and unarmed people of Sool, Sanaad and Eyn, and in some cases they are even going beyond that. I heard and read statements made by the current foreign minister of Somaliland in which he says Somaliland is one, its borders are known, and if the people of Sool, Sanaag and Eyn don’t want be part of that, they can leave. I mean that is incredible statement to make; that is exactly taking a leaf from that horrific book authored by Milosevic of Yugoslavia, the Serbian leader who believed the only ways Yugoslavia could be held together is to engage in what has been called ethnic cleansing, and that is exactly what the young foreign minister of Somaliland is suggesting.

 

We were part of supposedly former British Somaliland. The five ethnic groups that are the population of North Somalia , three or four of them signed friendship agreements with the British before they colonized the area. Khatumo or the people of Sool, Sanaag and Eyn never signed an agreement with British. On the contrary, they fought the British for over twenty years to resist the colonization. Yes, from the 1920s to 1960s during that thirty, forty years we were part of what was called British Somaliland. What we shared with the people you are saying now we were part of that was only colonial administration. There was a colonial governor and that is what constituted British Somaliland.

 

Traditionally, we were one people before and during the colonization and even now. We share grazing and wells and we also intermarry. We are people who have that historic cultural and social and political relationship traditionally. The difference arises when you try to replace the colonial administration with an administration that is Somaliland/snm-clan based. I don’t belong to them or their Clan-State and they don’t belong to us. We can only come together voluntarily of sharing things. Unfortunately, Somalia everything is based on 4.5. It is based on ethnic relations, and no ethnic group can force the others to be part of their imagination.

 

Somaliland/snm clan State cannot overwhelm the people of Sool, Sanaag and Eyn even if they win couple of battles. This would cause long term pain for both sides, and both sides would lose.

 

There is win-win vision, however, and that is for both sides to sit down together. They are not moving out of neighborhood nor are we. It is in our common interest to come together and talk and agree on what will be of mutual benefits. But if they think they can force us to accept their dominance and through force, I don’t think that is something acceptable and we have every right to defend ourselves. This would be a justified war for us, though our strong preference is that neither side would fight the other. We don’t want to fight. We have been saying this publically and privately and will continue saying it but there is a limit to how far we can restrain our people.

[BN]

If the leaders of Somaliland had been politically astute, they would have hosted an Carta-styled conference in the 1990s when the world had turned its back to Somalia. This would have allowed Hargeisa to maneuver to install a puppet regime in Xamar Cadey; one which would have recognized the renewed republic. But hindsight is 20/20. And who knows, the current exercise may prove less than fruitful in the end.

 

To play devil's advocate in today's context, would the break-up of Soomaliyaa be so unfortunate? Would it be so different than the 22+ Arabic speaking countries? While Carabta are not as politically advanced or strong, it has not hampered their economic development. And there is nothing to prevent future (re) integration with the other lost lands as well, as we’re seeing with the EU model. Unity for unity’s sake, or unity at all costs would not be very wise. Waxaa la yirahdaa, nabad la'aani waa nolol la'aan. For those who say, 'midnimada Soomaaliyaa waa muqadas'.....waa in aan xasuusnaa waagi 1960-ka hore.

 

The question in the end may be, would Hargeisa accept one of the following resolutions:

 

1-Independence, but without those troublesome Easterners (mise midnimada Soomaalilaan waa muqadas...);

2-Enshrined power-sharing agreement for the aggrieved party for XX years (e.g., PM or President); OR

3-Very decentralized system of federation, based on a model such as the EU or Cimiraatis. The latter's model is outlined below:

 

As a federation of seven monarchies, whose rulers retain absolute power within their emirates, but with a UAE president, it is neither a constitutional monarchy nor a republic. The emirs choose one of their members to be the president of the federation, but this does not alter the monarchical character of the government of the individual emirates. The constitution is concerned solely with the relations between the emirates as members of the federation, and does not prescribe a constitutional system of government.

[burahadeer]

Xaaji Xunjuf;828026 wrote:

Burahadeer Somaliland will never give up its statehood , Somalia will never agree with Somaliland statehood so i don't think ur plan can work ur idea would've been good if there were rational thinking people on the other side but that's not the case here.

 

i always ask my self Somalia maxa ka xumaanaya if Somaliland is their brotherly nation, i mean its not like they will be landlocked if Somaliland is gone its not like they will lose fertile land actually its in the best interest for the Koonfurians to agree with Somaliland quest for statehood. Since all the resources are the south they can have that all just for them selves.

we both know their admiration for us:D

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Loool burahadeer some even believe. Living with out sl is meaningless.

 

BN you have left out one option a UN supervised referendum on independence let the people decide.

[Jacaylbaro]

Wallee Somaliland dadkii way dawakhisay ,,,,,

 

halkaa kaga haya wareerka ,,,,

[faarah22]

Indepence could only be entertained perhaps when dealing with other ethnic groups, let's say we had oromos living in some corner of somalia on their own historical indigenous land. no qualms would be raised about their secession if they so agitated. this is however totally different case. the argument can go circles for ever but reality will remain our country is indivisible now and in future. end of story.