I am also a Shia too!

[Golden Girl]

Maashallah Jzk khyral Jazaa Brother Nur for sharing this information with us

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by ferocious:

^^

are u shia? just wondering no offense

Is being Shia an offence..?

we must understand that unity is only with those who ascribe to the kalima properly (regardless of what they call themselves).

And who judges those who are on the straight path, a mere human or Allah SWT..?

[Salafi_Online]

^^^^ A mere Human being who uses the law of Allah to judge!

[ferocious]

Jamatatu I said no offence cuz i didnt want to get in her business and ask her personal questions and if i offended her by doing that i was apologising for it ahead of time.

 

check my signature out dude it might help u out alot :rolleyes:

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by ferocious:

check my signature out dude it might help u out alot :rolleyes:

Not as much as it is helping you mate..or should I say describing...!

[Rahima]

And who judges those who are on the straight path, a mere human or Allah SWT..?

As that judged in the Qur’an, Sunnah and the understanding of the first three generations. This is how we derive understanding of the caqiida of this diin.

 

The kalima is clear sister , we just need to sift out some of the garbage tossed onto it.

 

Sister Og_girl,

 

Sorry to see that you do not regard Bukhari and Muslim as been authentic, however even putting hadith aside, i do believe that what i have stated is common sense and common etiquette .

 

It is just human decency that you be respectful when debating issues and not resort to verbal abuse. It is also common sense that you show respect to others when they show you respect, this is the lowest level of human decency, the greatest of which is to show respect when others do not show you the same courtesy. We should all aspire to this, but at least come with the lowest level.

[Haddad]

I thought there were more types of Shia, other than the Extreme Shia and the Shia Ithnaa Asheriyyah. This post has helped me learn new details. It has also made me wonder if the Shia could go mainstream in the future, a la NOI.

[Nur]

Haddad

 

I've just posted an addition please read, I keep updating the same post.

 

As I said, The Extreme Shia are the origin of all exisiting Shia sects, except for the Zaydia in yemen who are the closest to Ahlu Sunnah wl jamaaca and are widely accepted by Sunnah, however time permitting we can explore in the fututure other types of shia like the Alawi Nuseyri, Ismaili, Duruz, etc.

 

 

Nur

[Kowneyn]

The exercise of takfîr and tashrîk are the chief marks by which neo-Kharijis can be recognized in our time. They are those who address the Muslims with the shouts and libels of kâfir! mushrik! kufr! bid`a! shirk! harâm! ("apostate," "polytheist," "unbelief," "innovation," "idolatry," "forbidden") without proof nor justification other than their own vain lusts - and without solution other than exclusionism and violence against anyone that disagrees with them.

 

They satisfy their consciences that such charges may carry capital punishment in Islam and so make light of the sanctity of life and the honor of their brethren. As Shaykh al-Islam said: "Extremists are fanatic zealots who exceed bounds in words and deeds" and "bigots."

 

To perpetrate takfîr of the Muslims today makes one a Khariji, regardless whether one calls oneself Sunni, "Salafi," Ash`ari, Shi`i, Sufi, or Ibadi.

 

 

I hope the administration takes note of the excesses of the misguided wahhabi/salafi gang in this forum.

 

Kowneyn

[Nur]

Kowneyn

 

You have a good point, Shia Scholars and Kuleiny in his famous book Al Kaafi should not have ruled that Omar and Abu Bakar and all companions became Kuffaar after the death of the porphet SAWS. ( REad my references from Shia books) You know we love these companions of the prophet SAWS and his the Ahlul Beit Al Kiraam and it hurts us as much to be called Kuffaar. So why not apologise to all Sunnis about your books and scholars remarks if you are indeed sincere? I am sure you awe the audience an answer.

 

On the other hand, I expected you or any Shia audience to discuss and challenge the core issues of the Shia beliefs that I have documented using your Shia books. Resorting to insults like OG Girl and accusing others who oppose your views for using violence as a means to advance their cause on this medium is playing to the hands of you-know-who, and if that is your last resort tactic, you must be desparate saaxib. If you can't verify these sources, and challenge my views, you can distance yourself from these beliefs, and start worshipping Allah alone SWT, he forgives Shirk if you repent before you die. By the way, Sheikh Yusuf Al Kowneyn Was no Shia, no Wahhabi, just Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah like all of the rest of us on this forum.

 

 

Nur

[Maymuunah]

jazakallahu khairan walaal Nur. i have learned a great deal from your posts. can't wait the whole debate about this issue and how it unfolds. I am patiently waiting the third part of your post.

 

may allah show us the light of true guidance.

[Kowneyn]

Nur:

 

You are clearly a Wahhabi/Salafi who is claiming to be from the ahlul sunnah wa jamaaca. Although, I am not shia, I have high regard and great respect for them and I am honored that you have associated me with them. When it comes to defending Islam and the Ummah I trust them far more than the ahlul sunnah whose ranks have been infiltrated and their traditions have become diluted by a clear enemy of the ummah- the Wahhabis.

 

Now can you clearify your relationship to Wahhabism/Salafism?

 

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Kowneyn to you wahhabis was a muslim full stop; because u r a firqa bent on causing mischief and dissension among the ummah.

 

You should also understand my main difference with you is your arrogant and constant insinuation of takfir and tashrik of muslims; otherwise I don't care to read your rubbish. Somalidu waxay tidhahda riyuhu hadday dib leeyihiin dabadooday ku qarsan lahayeen... waxan uga jeeda if you had sound understanding of Islam and the authentic tradition of the ahlul sunnah you would not have become poisioned by wahhabism/salafism.

 

And even salafis I have no problem with because its Allah who is the final judge, only if they will curtail their arrogant and self-righteous attacks on muslims.

 

 

Kowneyn

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Kowneyn:

Nur:

 

You are clearly a Wahhabi

The term Wahhabi was coined by non-Muslims who had little understanding of Islam at the time. The name AbdulWahhab is composed of Abd and Al-Wahhab. Abd means slave or servant. Al-Wahhab is one of Allah's beautiful names, and means The Bestower. No human being can carry the name Al-Wahhab alone without preceding it with Abd. Westerners are known to shorten names. At the time when said term was coined, the non-Muslims who did it paid little or no attention; out of ignorance they coined an incorrect term. The correct term they should have coined is AbdulWahhabi. Dictionary defines Wahhabi as:

 

A member of a Muslim sect founded by Abdul Wahhab (1703-1792), known for its strict observance of the Koran and flourishing mainly in Arabia.

 

Clearly, if someone is using the term Wahhabi, he/she would mean a member of a "sect" founded by Allah. Until a few decades ago, Islam in the West was referred to Mohammedanism. Today, that term is hardly used in the West. It's possible the West will correct the term Wahhabi in the near future. When that happens, I am sure our misguided brothers/sisters will follow the West in using the correct term.

 

Clarification: There are no group of Muslims who call themselves Wahhabis. Prove me wrong.

[Nur]

Kowneyn

 

You write:

 

" You are clearly a Wahhabi/Salafi who is claiming to be from the ahlul sunnah wa jamaaca."

 

 

Answer:

 

Could you please define each one in a scholarly way: What is Wahhabi,

What is Salafi, and

What is Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaaca.

Then please show me how I am not part of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaach. If you do that you will earn my respect and that of the audience.

 

 

You write:

 

" Although, I am not shia, I have high regard and great respect for them and I am honored that you have associated me with them."

 

 

Answer:

 

Saaxib, it is better to please Allah when enough prrofs are presednted against the Shia concepts instead of pleasing the Shia. Shia will not save you, Allah can, so dteach yourself from dogma, and open your eyes before their lids are closed for you.

 

You write:

 

" When it comes to defending Islam and the Ummah I trust them far more than the ahlul sunnah whose ranks have been infiltrated and their traditions have become diluted by a clear enemy of the ummah- the Wahhabis."

 

 

Answer:

 

So, according to this blanket statement of yours, all the glories of Islam the past 14 centurties to this day are credited to Shia, they liberated Persia from the Mushriks, Anatolia and Constantinoble from Romans, took this religion to the far ends of Europe , Asia, and Africa. In the present day, Shia are fighting in Palestine to liberate poor people while all Sunnis are not doing nothing, they are defending the Darfur Muslims, they helped Somali Muslims during the 13 years of civil war helping them with supplies food and education opening their colleges fro them, they are building Masjids in Europe and America to teach people their faith tell me when to stop saxib.

 

 

You write:

 

" Now can you clearify your relationship to Wahhabism/Salafism?"

 

Answer:

 

This question is in contradiction to your first statement in which you said that I am "You are clearly a Wahhabi/Salafi who is claiming to be from the ahlul sunnah wa jamaaca" I know that you have problem understanding what I write, could you please try to understand what you write if you want to be taken seriously?

 

 

You write:

 

 

" Sheikh Yusuf Al-Kowneyn to you wahhabis was a muslim full stop; because u r a firqa bent on causing mischief and dissension among the ummah."

 

Answer:

 

Please don't tell me, show me with proofs, like I have shown SOL viewers the Shia concepts from your books, and backed up my statements with excerpts from the most reliable books by volume and page references. Name calling is not a noble character, at least for us Sunnis, may be it is part of your Shia friends religion who worship God by slandering Aisha, Abu Bakar, Omar and all companions.

 

If you can't debate gracefully and respectfully and control your frustration and anger, at least don't hurt your cause by acting irrational, thus proving beyound doubt who you guys are, that is how your post is being seen which is a disservise to the Shia cause you are defending.

 

 

You write:

 

" You should also understand my main difference with you is your arrogant and constant insinuation of takfir and tashrik of muslims; otherwise I don't care to read your rubbish."

 

 

Answer:

 

Again, no single reference or proof from my writing to support your statement, being a wishy washy like this and making rings without coming to the point that hurts you, is not going to help you. Rubbish is not a good way to describe my post, Do you know what is Rubbish? the beliefs that you are defending, like the story of the Donkey who talked to the Prophet according to your Shia sources. Responses I get from majority of viewers tell me a different story, they appreciate my work, but the way you are reacting to my effort to save your soul and others bent on staying on false hopes, tells me that the medicines are working, but for a medicine to work on sick hearts it hurts, which explains the verse in the Quraan where Allah SWT says " And when the worship of Allah alone is called for, the hearts of those who do not believe in the heareafter (the proper belief) become annoyed, and when other than Allah is mentioned, you find them rejoicing"

 

You write:

 

" Somalidu waxay tidhahda riyuhu hadday dib leeyihiin dabadooday ku qarsan lahayeen... waxan uga jeeda if you had sound understanding of Islam and the authentic tradition of the ahlul sunnah you would not have become poisioned by wahhabism/salafism."

 

 

Answer:

 

Waad iga qoslisay saaxib, aan maahmaah kale kuugu kordhiyo, Somalidu wexey kaloo tidhaahdaa:

 

Dhadhan Mufaa leh,

Dharagna Maankaal aa leh,

Dhunxisna Moosaa leh

 

clearly your statements fails on all above three metrics, no substance, no meaning, and definetely NO benefit, I wonder if your presence on this forum is adding any positive value for the Somaliaonline community.

 

 

Nur

[Mutakalim]

Nur

 

Needs must I abandon the respite of my writing to display my prowess of moral suasion to the Nomads of the Somaliaonline fora. I only jest.

 

For now, I care to address only the "doctrinal" part of your compilation. I shall address all the concepts in one post, so appraise me when your research is concluded. You have raised some important points; however, judging from the presentation and organization of your posts, you have chosen to present your arguments in a logically peculiar order, (weakest to strongest) thusly the more "damaging" doctrines I presume you will discuss in the succeding posts (The concept of "Al Bidaa" is one such concept that you have mentioned only breifly). Have you the time to address the two threads I have intiated a week ago: Necessity of Shiism?

 

Kowneyn et al

 

For the sake of discussion, if you can not address the arguments then you need not post aught! Do not commit the fallacy of ad hominimum.

Also, you must understand that it is not arrogance and ignorance that prompts some muslims to label others as apostates and mushriks but a deep religous conviction of their own righteousness. If the shia in actuality worship thier Imams, then they are guitly of a most cardinal sin, viz., Shirk(I will show the de facto case is not thus).

 

Note: Many members have written about their express reservation of labelling a muslim unfavourably; as one member said "only Allah judges". Whilst it is true that Allah is the only and Final judge, it is also true that Allah gave us the capability to judge. If you steal, then you are a theif (although it is pardonable in extreme cases). If you lie, then you are a liar. If you perform acts of shirk, then you are a mushrik. For those of you who have studied logic, you will notice that the above stipulations are deductive arguments.

 

P.S. Regrettably, the islamic doctrines have become like the science of juriprudence (fiqh), a grey area open for interpretation.